Theia AI Program

[VegasVinny]

I predict it will have no positive impact and potentially negative in that it might waste his training time with dumb/unproven drills it scrapes from some yahoo off the internet.

Whether it works out for any single player is irrelevant.
That's a 0% or 100% on a player that is going there after lacking success.

What you are suggesting here is that body mechanics, improved balance along with in the moment feedback while doing that training hasn't any value. That's a large part of hitting to have no value especially considering it is a part JW needs some work.

Absolutely not what I'm suggesting at all, please read better.

no positive impact and potentially negative in that it might waste his training time with dumb/unproven drills it scrapes from some yahoo off the internet.

Waste of time negative impact

please relay your opinion better

You are not adequately describing what the AI will be doing, which i consider to be a waste of time.

"In the moment feedback" of how a player is performing unproven drills, and the feedback itself is based on faulty data scraping... so basically the plan is to add flawed feedback atop flawed drills... a veritable mountain of [nonsense]

So yes, waste of time at best and actively harmful at worst, if it picks a bad drill for him to do and then tells him he's not doing it correctly (i.e. badly) enough.

AI doesn't actually know more than experts, it's just aggregating a bunch of expert opinions. And what do you think happens when those experts have different and even conflicting approaches? Garbage in, garbage out.

I believe that the information fed into the AI program is a composite of the other evaluation tools Driveline has been using for years. I don't communicate with Kyle anymore, but I do have a way to contact him. I'll try that and see if he responds.

Gonna go out on a limb and say Kyle will tell you their AI is awesome and won't have any of the drawbacks that some other AI programs have... iow what pretty much anyone would say after investing a lot of money in their AI.

I feel there's some truth on both sides to this. I don't always agree with Kyle's approach - he can be arrogant and abrasive at times, and yes, there is an element to believing so hard in your product/service/business that it comes off as blind faith. I know of two players who went to Driveline when it was just getting off the ground, and both essentially said, "what you see is what you get with him."

With that said, I absolutely respect the work Kyle has put in to make Driveline what it is. It doesn't have a 100% success rate with players but no instructional system does. We can debate whether the game has changed for the better over the last 15 years with respect to how competent organizations prioritize biometrics in pitching (and hitting), but it's impossible to deny he's had a small hand in shaping that thought process.

[rockondlouie]

I responded in another thread about Kyle Boddy and Driveline wrt Walker working at Driveline to improve his swing. Boddy is the founder of Driveline. I've known Kyle Boddy a long time, and long before he was nationally known. He is an innovator in the game. Driveline has partnered with others to test out the Theia AI program along with PLNU x Padres Biomechanics Lab. This system is different from the wearable sensors or other gadgets used in the past, in that a normal cage can be used, and the video of a hitter is run through this AI system. It measures things such as posture, rotation, timing, bat angles, ... From there, drills can be selected to improve a hitter's swing. That drillwork can also be monitored and evaluated using Theia's AI Program. IOWs, if a hitter is doing a drill to correct some "flaw," they can measure just how well they are doing the drill to correct the flaw. This is the next step or evolution for the game.

Great stuff V, thx for sharing!

[icon]

Albert Pujols didn't need Driveline.

And shouldn't it be called Linedrive? Or are those totally out of vogue now in the Upper Cut Era?

Anyway, all joking aside, this outfit sounds very data heavy. Just what Walker needs is more to think about. It seems he has done too much of that before. I know, it's about fine-tuning and then letting muscle memory take over. I'm not sure that's going to work in his case.

[renostl]

Albert Pujols didn't need Driveline.

And shouldn't it be called Linedrive? Or are those totally out of vogue now in the Upper Cut Era?

Anyway, all joking aside, this outfit sounds very data heavy. Just what Walker needs is more to think about. It seems he has done too much of that before. I know, it's about fine-tuning and then letting muscle memory take over. I'm not sure that's going to work in his case.

That's actually part of the point.
Guys going there need correction, treatment or their opportunity time is numbered.

This or any treatment may not work. The players coming out without improvement or
from a coach without improvement would also be losing opportunities without a change
or intervention at a high rate. IF some random number of 25% come out better that's everything
to that player, it's 100% to them.

JW needs help. There will be no need to throw away coaching after he goes to Driveline.
IF, that muscle memory you allude to takes hold, wouldn't that be one less thing to think about
as well as add confidence in himself?

[Voldemort]

Albert Pujols didn't need Driveline.

And shouldn't it be called Linedrive? Or are those totally out of vogue now in the Upper Cut Era?

Anyway, all joking aside, this outfit sounds very data heavy. Just what Walker needs is more to think about. It seems he has done too much of that before. I know, it's about fine-tuning and then letting muscle memory take over. I'm not sure that's going to work in his case.

Shohei Ohtani, Mookie Betts, and a lot of other MLB players use Driveline. Players are inundated with numbers regardless of where they go in the off-season, and you can bet your last dollar that they are hit by all of these measurements during the season.

[NYCardsFan]

I responded in another thread about Kyle Boddy and Driveline wrt Walker working at Driveline to improve his swing. Boddy is the founder of Driveline. I've known Kyle Boddy a long time, and long before he was nationally known. He is an innovator in the game. Driveline has partnered with others to test out the Theia AI program along with PLNU x Padres Biomechanics Lab. This system is different from the wearable sensors or other gadgets used in the past, in that a normal cage can be used, and the video of a hitter is run through this AI system. It measures things such as posture, rotation, timing, bat angles, ... From there, drills can be selected to improve a hitter's swing. That drillwork can also be monitored and evaluated using Theia's AI Program. IOWs, if a hitter is doing a drill to correct some "flaw," they can measure just how well they are doing the drill to correct the flaw. This is the next step or evolution for the game.

Sounds like the technology makes instruction more iterative, with more real-time feedback and course correction during the sessions. Seems like a more intuitive, efficient, and focused way to work. I'm guessing this is a small(er)-language model, as there has to be some overarching QC/QA on what diagnostics are used, what drills are recommended, etc. I'd be surprised if they were just scraping for content.

[Dicktar2023]

Bloom: We've got to turn Walker around, let's hear ideas. Anything is on the table.
-How about better coaches?
Bloom: No way. Not possible. Never going to happen.
-Ok, what about an army of robots?
Bloom: I'm listening...

[Voldemort]

I predict it will have no positive impact and potentially negative in that it might waste his training time with dumb/unproven drills it scrapes from some yahoo off the internet.

Whether it works out for any single player is irrelevant.
That's a 0% or 100% on a player that is going there after lacking success.

What you are suggesting here is that body mechanics, improved balance along with in the moment feedback while doing that training hasn't any value. That's a large part of hitting to have no value especially considering it is a part JW needs some work.

Absolutely not what I'm suggesting at all, please read better.

no positive impact and potentially negative in that it might waste his training time with dumb/unproven drills it scrapes from some yahoo off the internet.

Waste of time negative impact

please relay your opinion better

You are not adequately describing what the AI will be doing, which i consider to be a waste of time.

"In the moment feedback" of how a player is performing unproven drills, and the feedback itself is based on faulty data scraping... so basically the plan is to add flawed feedback atop flawed drills... a veritable mountain of [nonsense]

So yes, waste of time at best and actively harmful at worst, if it picks a bad drill for him to do and then tells him he's not doing it correctly (i.e. badly) enough.

AI doesn't actually know more than experts, it's just aggregating a bunch of expert opinions. And what do you think happens when those experts have different and even conflicting approaches? Garbage in, garbage out.

I believe that the information fed into the AI program is a composite of the other evaluation tools Driveline has been using for years. I don't communicate with Kyle anymore, but I do have a way to contact him. I'll try that and see if he responds.

Gonna go out on a limb and say Kyle will tell you their AI is awesome and won't have any of the drawbacks that some other AI programs have... iow what pretty much anyone would say after investing a lot of money in their AI.

I feel there's some truth on both sides to this. I don't always agree with Kyle's approach - he can be arrogant and abrasive at times, and yes, there is an element to believing so hard in your product/service/business that it comes off as blind faith. I know of two players who went to Driveline when it was just getting off the ground, and both essentially said, "what you see is what you get with him."

With that said, I absolutely respect the work Kyle has put in to make Driveline what it is. It doesn't have a 100% success rate with players but no instructional system does. We can debate whether the game has changed for the better over the last 15 years with respect to how competent organizations prioritize biometrics in pitching (and hitting), but it's impossible to deny he's had a small hand in shaping that thought process.

I missed this post, and it is a good representation of Kyle. In saying that, he almost lost his business a couple of times and battled to stay afloat. Once he got up and running, I believe that he had a us-against-all mentality. Still, and I posted this earlier, he pays attention to detail and demands that of those who work for him at Driveline.

[Idaho Cards]

Vold - fantastic thread; Big fan of Driveline, more on the pitching side. Driveline's credibility stems from its rigorous testing and data-driven protocols. However, IMO - Driveline, Tread, etc. are failing to realize the importance of each athlete's individual motor preference. So many of the models are based on movements/metrics/angles/markers from the best of the best. If you have an athlete that is an uber upper half mover, or an athlete that is an uber lower half mover, their data will inevitably fall on the ends of a spectrum, making them outliers. This is where I think the Cardinal system, and maybe private teachers, are missing the boat.

JW hitting profile is very terrestrial - he initiates movement with his lower half. He has similar movement profiles as Judge or Soto which are directly opposed to hitters like Trout or Betts. I wish they would just let his body be athletic and spend their time working on approach, vision, timing, and direction. Problems with timing and approach create posture and movement issues, which I think are the main issues at play.

[scoutyjones2]

I see no reason to think Driveline helps hitters.

[Voldemort]

Vold - fantastic thread; Big fan of Driveline, more on the pitching side. Driveline's credibility stems from its rigorous testing and data-driven protocols. However, IMO - Driveline, Tread, etc. are failing to realize the importance of each athlete's individual motor preference. So many of the models are based on movements/metrics/angles/markers from the best of the best. If you have an athlete that is an uber upper half mover, or an athlete that is an uber lower half mover, their data will inevitably fall on the ends of a spectrum, making them outliers. This is where I think the Cardinal system, and maybe private teachers, are missing the boat.

JW hitting profile is very terrestrial - he initiates movement with his lower half. He has similar movement profiles as Judge or Soto which are directly opposed to hitters like Trout or Betts. I wish they would just let his body be athletic and spend their time working on approach, vision, timing, and direction. Problems with timing and approach create posture and movement issues, which I think are the main issues at play.

Great response, and I agree. Your point about an athlete's individual motor preference is spot on. This then gets back to one size does not fit all. That is why coaches need to leave hitters/pitchers alone who are doing well. IOWs, don't fix what isn't broken. Thanks for the response.

[Voldemort]

I see no reason to think Driveline helps hitters.

Shohei Ohtani, Mookie Betts, and others (Many Dodgers) might disagree since they have gone back to Driveline multiple times.

[icon]

I see no reason to think Driveline helps hitters.

Shohei Ohtani, Mookie Betts, and others (Many Dodgers) might disagree since they have gone back to Driveline multiple times.

Still, there is no way to prove that Driveline improved their performance. It may have been the same or even better without Driveline.

[scoutyjones2]

I see no reason to think Driveline helps hitters.

Shohei Ohtani, Mookie Betts, and others (Many Dodgers) might disagree since they have gone back to Driveline multiple times.

Dodgers are asking their players to go there...

Did Ohtahni and Betts need to and what changed in their already elite hitting?

Ohtahni used it for enhancing his health as he goes both ways, and pitching.
I saw others on the Dodgers who used this heading into the 2023 season and nothing changed. Gavin Lux, Taylor...

Their known for pitching, not hitting. Drive weighted training to increase bat speed and hit the ball harder and biometrics.

Didn't Snoot go there?

[Voldemort]

I see no reason to think Driveline helps hitters.

Shohei Ohtani, Mookie Betts, and others (Many Dodgers) might disagree since they have gone back to Driveline multiple times.

Dodgers are asking their players to go there...

Did Ohtahni and Betts need to and what changed in their already elite hitting?

Ohtahni used it for enhancing his health as he goes both ways, and pitching.
I saw others on the Dodgers who used this heading into the 2023 season and nothing changed. Gavin Lux, Taylor...

Their known for pitching, not hitting. Drive weighted training to increase bat speed and hit the ball harder and biometrics.

Didn't Snoot go there?

Yes, Driveline does both pitching and hitting. You could have mentioned Kershaw, who went there multiple times. Per the statement that a person can't attribute anything successful to Driveline, then the argument that you can't attribute player failure to Cardinal coaching is as valid an argument. If the argument is that you can't attribute any success in a player's development to any instruction or coaching, how about running Walker out there and seeing where the chips fall? He can have a laid-back off-season.

[scoutyjones2]

I see no reason to think Driveline helps hitters.

Shohei Ohtani, Mookie Betts, and others (Many Dodgers) might disagree since they have gone back to Driveline multiple times.

Dodgers are asking their players to go there...

Did Ohtahni and Betts need to and what changed in their already elite hitting?

Ohtahni used it for enhancing his health as he goes both ways, and pitching.
I saw others on the Dodgers who used this heading into the 2023 season and nothing changed. Gavin Lux, Taylor...

Their known for pitching, not hitting. Drive weighted training to increase bat speed and hit the ball harder and biometrics.

Didn't Snoot go there?

Yes, Driveline does both pitching and hitting. You could have mentioned Kershaw, who went there multiple times. Per the statement that a person can't attribute anything successful to Driveline, then the argument that you can't attribute player failure to Cardinal coaching is as valid an argument. If the argument is that you can't attribute any success in a player's development to any instruction or coaching, how about running Walker out there and seeing where the chips fall? He can have a laid-back off-season.

Lol.


Just proves my point.

CNt name hitters that have been transformed by Driveline.