Check In To Admit You Were Wrong Ab Wilson Contreras

[cardstatman]

A better way to look at things IMHO is runs above average rather than runs above replacement since RAR is a counting stat which gives you credit for being slightly better than an average freely acquired AAAA player.

I will use RE24 to represent that and then show the fangraphs defense adjustment.

39.24 Donovan - 6.7 defense --- veteran for sale
37.11 Contreras -11.2 defense --- veteran for sale
23.30 Herrera -7.9 defense
11.08 Burleson - 38.2 defense
4.50 Nootbar - 10.5 defense --- veteran for sale but injury may delay that
0.90 Gorman - 14.5 defense
-7.78 Arenado + 17.2 defense --- veteran for sale
-10.75 Saggese +1.8 defense
-12.39 Pages + 17.9 defense
-19.59 Scott + 10.0 defense
-23.65 Winn + 27.7 defense
-30.62 Walker - 30.3 defense

All players in red make an average team worse if acquired to replace an average player on that team.
Note: They may improve the team if replacing a replacement level player. However, good teams should have zero replacement level players getting significant playing time. This is why I prefer runs above average over runs above replacement.

Once we complete this selloff, this is going to be a truly horrible team.

[Cusecards]

-Previous team (managed by a catcher) didn’t want anything to do with him as a catcher or person (routinely destroyed expensive clubhouse property)
-Division rival got his younger, better, cheaper brother (who actually catches)
-Post-prime signing of a .250ish hitter who maxes out at 20ish Hrs.

No 1B didn’t improve anything offensively, still topped out at his career ceiling norms.

-Couldn’t catch
-Couldn’t hit for significant power

-rage = leadership (apparently to CardsTalk dummies)

Admit at least that the signing was a total failure.

If you can admit the obvious maybe you can go a little further and admit how totally wrong you were. Yes, you. Yep, you. 99.9% of this board has been full supporters and optimistic hope hopers hoping this guy actually makes a difference and for some delusional reason people thought he’d exceed the production of his prime well into his post-prime.

This was a stupidly dumb waste of money and playing time investment in others.

He was a problem from day one not knowing how to call a game and then he just got in the way as a DH.

No. Stop. Rewire your brain. Let the growth of character flow through you.

Stop resisting. Let it overwhelm your ego.

Now admit.

I admit you’re an idiot.

The “anonymous” Internet can provide a worthwhile forum like CT where 80/90% of the posters engage in constructive dialogue and can agree to disagree.
But the “anonymous” nature of CT unfortunately leaves itself wide open to posters such as the OP who are only capable of spewing their nonsense while hiding behind a computer.
As my Dad used to say....”If the OP was in public, he wouldn’t say [shirt] if he had a mouth full of it”!

that's all of social media, not just CT. Destroying our society.

Fair point.
I always love it when someone posts an OPINION in HINDSIGHT and then calls out others in the process as some type of all-knowing intellect.
As I’ve often said....God Bless the Anonymous Internet!

[Adam2]

-Previous team (managed by a catcher) didn’t want anything to do with him as a catcher or person (routinely destroyed expensive clubhouse property)
-Division rival got his younger, better, cheaper brother (who actually catches)
-Post-prime signing of a .250ish hitter who maxes out at 20ish Hrs.

No 1B didn’t improve anything offensively, still topped out at his career ceiling norms.

-Couldn’t catch
-Couldn’t hit for significant power

-rage = leadership (apparently to CardsTalk dummies)

Admit at least that the signing was a total failure.

If you can admit the obvious maybe you can go a little further and admit how totally wrong you were. Yes, you. Yep, you. 99.9% of this board has been full supporters and optimistic hope hopers hoping this guy actually makes a difference and for some delusional reason people thought he’d exceed the production of his prime well into his post-prime.

This was a stupidly dumb waste of money and playing time investment in others.

He was a problem from day one not knowing how to call a game and then he just got in the way as a DH.

No. Stop. Rewire your brain. Let the growth of character flow through you.

Stop resisting. Let it overwhelm your ego.

Now admit.

You can't even spell his name correctly. Start over.

[rockondlouie]

Contreras has been arguably the Cardinals best player of the 2023-2025 Contreras era.

His supporting cast has been subpar. The team's overall record was 232-254 which is a disaster by STL standards.

Too few homegrown players with significant positive contributions.
Too few acquired players with significant positive contributions.
The team has been selling for the future the entire 3 years and now has a highly ranked farm system. No results yet but some future hope.
Supposedly, they will more aggressively sell this offseason. So far, only Gray is gone.

300+ plate appearances or batters faced
2023-2025 Cardinals leaders in fWAR

8.2 1416 Contreras $66M value delivered --- for sale
7.5 1538 Donovan --- for sale
7.4 1424 Gray $59M value delivered --- sold for Fitts and Clarke
6.8 1683 Arenado $54M value delivered --- for sale
6.3 1311 Winn
5.7 1491 Nootbar --- for sale
5.3 2249 Mikolas $42M value delivered --- gone via FA
5.1 0755 Herrera
4.6 1341 Goldschmidt $37M value delivered --- gone via FA
4.2 0569 Helsley --- sold for Jesus Baez, Dohm, and Elissalt
3.2 0866 Matz $25M value delivered --- sold for Blaze Jordan
2.9 1281 Liberatore
2.6 0509 Montgomery --- gone via FA
2.4 0528 Edman --- sold
2.4 1268 Gorman
2.4 1526 Pallante
2.2 1488 Burleson
2.0 0607 Pages
2.0 0645 Romero
1.6 0485 Flaherty --- sold for Rom, Prieto, Showalter
1.5 0306 DeJong --- sold for Svanson
1.5 0569 Leahy
1.5 0486 McGreevy
1.4 0722 Gibson $11M value delivered --- gone via FA
1.3 0618 Scott
1.3 0511 Lynn $11M value delivered --- gone via FA
0.9 0358 Siani
0.9 0670 Fedde --- sold for nothing
0.8 0370 Thompson
0.5 0347 Saggese
0.4 0425 Fernandez
0.3 0354 Hudson - gone via FA
0.0 0546 King --- gone via FA
-0.2 0323 Gallegos --- released
-0.4 0484 Wainwright -$3.1M value delivered --- gone via FA
-0.8 0393 Carlson --- sold for nothing
-0.9 1039 Walker

Interesting, I wonder how many would've thought Gorman w/a higher fWAR delivered than Burleson and in 220 fewer PA's.

Great legwork cstatman

[ecleme22]

Some really odd OPs lately…

[cardstatman]

Here is a look at 2023-2025 RE24 for the Cards remaining pitchers...

+26.48 Romero
+14.22 Leahy
+12.28 Svanson
+4.65 McGreevy
+2.67 O'Brien
+2.67 Fitts
-2.43 Fernandez
-11.80 Graceffo
-16.83 Roycroft
-18.59 Liberatore
-27.95 Pallante

As a team the 2023-2025 RE24 for the current roster
-6.86 offense
-41.1 defense
-17.32 pitching

[cardstatman]

Interesting, I wonder how many would've thought Gorman w/a higher fWAR delivered than Burleson and in 220 fewer PA's.

Great legwork cstatman

Yes. Different trajectories though. Gorman downward and Burleson upward.

I hoped they would sell both but apparently we are ousting Contreras, Arenado, and Donovan to make room for Burleson, Gorman, and Walker to play more.

I don't think that's going to turn out well.

[icon]

-Previous team (managed by a catcher) didn’t want anything to do with him as a catcher or person (routinely destroyed expensive clubhouse property)
-Division rival got his younger, better, cheaper brother (who actually catches)
-Post-prime signing of a .250ish hitter who maxes out at 20ish Hrs.

No 1B didn’t improve anything offensively, still topped out at his career ceiling norms.

-Couldn’t catch
-Couldn’t hit for significant power

-rage = leadership (apparently to CardsTalk dummies)

Admit at least that the signing was a total failure.

If you can admit the obvious maybe you can go a little further and admit how totally wrong you were. Yes, you. Yep, you. 99.9% of this board has been full supporters and optimistic hope hopers hoping this guy actually makes a difference and for some delusional reason people thought he’d exceed the production of his prime well into his post-prime.

This was a stupidly dumb waste of money and playing time investment in others.

He was a problem from day one not knowing how to call a game and then he just got in the way as a DH.

No. Stop. Rewire your brain. Let the growth of character flow through you.

Stop resisting. Let it overwhelm your ego.

Now admit.

First, learn to spell his name.

I'll admit you have quite a slant to your post.

WillyCon is nowhere in the list of concerns as a Cardinal.

He outhit his younger brother last year, and led the Cards for HRs and RBIs, as well as the only leader on the team.

No kidding. This psycho can't even spell the name of the guy he is trashing. And he doesn't have his facts right. This contract has not been underwater. At all.

[hmoss859]

If he was still a catcher, it would have been a real coup.

First basemen with his production are a dime a dozen.

[rockondlouie]

Interesting, I wonder how many would've thought Gorman w/a higher fWAR delivered than Burleson and in 220 fewer PA's.

Great legwork cstatman

Yes. Different trajectories though. Gorman downward and Burleson upward.

I hoped they would sell both but apparently we are ousting Contreras, Arenado, and Donovan to make room for Burleson, Gorman, and Walker to play more.

I don't think that's going to turn out well.

Exactly

Burly w/the UP arrow, Norman w/the DOWN

Runway is being (likely) cleared for Norman at 3rd, Burly 1st and Walker back in RF.

I'm shocked they seem comfortable starting Walker in St. Louis and not at Memphis where he belongs.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Interesting, I wonder how many would've thought Gorman w/a higher fWAR delivered than Burleson and in 220 fewer PA's.

Great legwork cstatman

Yes. Different trajectories though. Gorman downward and Burleson upward.

I hoped they would sell both but apparently we are ousting Contreras, Arenado, and Donovan to make room for Burleson, Gorman, and Walker to play more.

I don't think that's going to turn out well.

Exactly

Burly w/the UP arrow, Norman w/the DOWN

Runway is being (likely) cleared for Norman at 3rd, Burly 1st and Walker back in RF.

I'm shocked they seem comfortable starting Walker in St. Louis and not at Memphis where he belongs.

I'm ambivalent on Walker in AAA or STL. Not sure going down will teach him anything that will improve his ML performance. I am hopeful they find the key to unlock any potential he has and will accept either course of action.

[CorneliusWolfe]

His OPS and OBP and the ability to flawlessly transition to 1B and play well above average defense makes his contract a great value.

Problem is, he was added to provide another thumper that would form a good power trio with Goldschmidt and Arenado, both whom didn’t hold up their end of the deal.

With the emergence of Brendan Donovan, and the expected emergence or arrivals of supposed impact players in Noot, Gorman, Walker and Winn, he was supposed to be the cherry on top of a well-balanced lineup that had both experience and youth.

WC was the ONLY one that held up his end and we’re supposed to blame him? If he was a bad signing it was everyone’s fault except for his because they made him irrelevant from a team success standpoint.

There’s also an unknown factor…what might he still bring back in trade? He’s still valuable because the amount owed on his contract in relation to his production and defense.

This thread is not objective and based on either personal dislike or the team’s failure during his tenure.

[ScotchMIrish]

What's interesting is he deliberately get HBP on the elbow pad and then blames his teammates for not wanting to fight the other team.

I suspect that is why Bloom wants to trade him. He is an unwanted distraction. Mets seem like an ideal destination. Lots of theaters in New York. He can have a second career in drama when his baseball days are over.

[ecleme22]

What's interesting is he deliberately get HBP on the elbow pad and then blames his teammates for not wanting to fight the other team.

I suspect that is why Bloom wants to trade him. He is an unwanted distraction. Mets seem like an ideal destination. Lots of theaters in New York. He can have a second career in drama when his baseball days are over.

I think you get the offseason Cards Talk award for “Most Posts Where a Narrative is Squeezed in.”

[bccardsfan]

What's interesting is he deliberately get HBP on the elbow pad and then blames his teammates for not wanting to fight the other team.

I suspect that is why Bloom wants to trade him. He is an unwanted distraction. Mets seem like an ideal destination. Lots of theaters in New York. He can have a second career in drama when his baseball days are over.

I was a bit tired of WC's act as well. Hopefully there will be a half decent return. However, as has been stated many times, his contract was not underwater. He also is not the glue to hold the team together in my opinion. Will be interested to see what return he may bring if traded.

[ecleme22]

What's interesting is he deliberately get HBP on the elbow pad and then blames his teammates for not wanting to fight the other team.

I suspect that is why Bloom wants to trade him. He is an unwanted distraction. Mets seem like an ideal destination. Lots of theaters in New York. He can have a second career in drama when his baseball days are over.

I was a bit tired of WC's act as well. Hopefully there will be a half decent return. However, as has been stated many times, his contract was not underwater. He also is not the glue to hold the team together in my opinion. Will be interested to see what return he may bring if traded.

But seriously, what is his ‘act’?

Other than the HBP eruption, what has he done?