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rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:02 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

In Mike Ilitch's last years, when the Tigers were good, he spent a lot on payroll. The Tigers were a playoff team this year, and a $157M payroll is not high by 2025 standards. That, and the mere fact that they are shopping Skubal should indicate that "just spend whatever it takes to keep him" is likely not an option for the Tigers (or, again, Skubal isn't interested in signing there long term).

This started off with a very straight forward question: "why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?" Sometimes the obvious answer is the truth. The Tigers consistently had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in MLB from 2012 until 2017 when Mike Ilitch died. Their opening day payroll in 2025 wasn't even in the top half of the league (assuming the website I found is even close to accurate).

C-Unit wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:02 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:59 am

MrPostman01 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:55 am Just form a new league and let the Dodgers form their own.

how is this any different than what the Yankees did back in the day?

It's different because the Yankees won all their championships BEFORE they started adding all the superstars.

Not correct in the slightest.

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:32 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:02 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

In Mike Ilitch's last years, when the Tigers were good, he spent a lot on payroll. The Tigers were a playoff team this year, and a $157M payroll is not high by 2025 standards. That, and the mere fact that they are shopping Skubal should indicate that "just spend whatever it takes to keep him" is likely not an option for the Tigers (or, again, Skubal isn't interested in signing there long term).

This started off with a very straight forward question: "why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?" Sometimes the obvious answer is the truth. The Tigers consistently had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in MLB from 2012 until 2017 when Mike Ilitch died. Their opening day payroll in 2025 wasn't even in the top half of the league (assuming the website I found is even close to accurate).

Mike Illitch was a poor Detroit kid who made it big (of course) in Pizza.

He was on record saying he'd spend whatever it took to bring championships to the Red Wings (it worked) and the Tigers (it didn't, thank you 2006 Cardinals ).

He was an earlier version of S. Cohen, who now has the same philosophy for this hometown Mets.

The kid doesn't have the same passion.

I'd deal Skubal too, just would hate to see the Dodgers w/another great pitcher.

makesnosense wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 11:48 am

C-Unit wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:02 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:59 am

MrPostman01 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:55 am Just form a new league and let the Dodgers form their own.

how is this any different than what the Yankees did back in the day?

It's different because the Yankees won all their championships BEFORE they started adding all the superstars.

Not correct in the slightest.

Well alright then

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:32 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:02 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

In Mike Ilitch's last years, when the Tigers were good, he spent a lot on payroll. The Tigers were a playoff team this year, and a $157M payroll is not high by 2025 standards. That, and the mere fact that they are shopping Skubal should indicate that "just spend whatever it takes to keep him" is likely not an option for the Tigers (or, again, Skubal isn't interested in signing there long term).

This started off with a very straight forward question: "why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?" Sometimes the obvious answer is the truth. The Tigers consistently had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in MLB from 2012 until 2017 when Mike Ilitch died. Their opening day payroll in 2025 wasn't even in the top half of the league (assuming the website I found is even close to accurate).

That seems clear. The clear part is probably that with the way salaries are, only lord knows what number Skubal (and his agent) have in their mind. The contracts these days seem to be loosely based on the so-many-M's-per-WAR formula, but, with a few extra years tacked onto the deal by the team lucky enough to win the sweepstakes which makes the deal far from sensible in the end. Actually, I think the players are more focused on the total amount of the deal, and less concerned with the amount of years it needs to be structured in order to get the contract to the desired total amount. It's simple as "my name is xxx and I deserve to have an big number starting with a 5-, a 6-, or a 7- next to my name."

And the thing about Skubal is he actually has the resume. What better spot could you be in, than have back-to-back Cy Youngs to support your argument.

It's over ten years ago now that Scherzer left Detroit and signed a 7-year deal that was seen as enormous at the time. Skubal will be a year younger than Scherzer entering free agency. Would it surprise anyone, in today's landscape, if he's able to get a 10+ year deal?

The only argument I could make for Detroit coughing up "whatever it takes" would be that they have a relatively cheap roster with more good prospects on the way (a 2B, a CF, and a young SS). But then again, they are going to have to think about coming to the extension table with Greene/Torkelson at some point.

Maybe this is why the underlying economics of the game need serious re-working. I have no idea.

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Exactly what I was thinking.

makesnosense wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 11:48 am

C-Unit wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:02 am

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:59 am

MrPostman01 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:55 am Just form a new league and let the Dodgers form their own.

how is this any different than what the Yankees did back in the day?

It's different because the Yankees won all their championships BEFORE they started adding all the superstars.

Not correct in the slightest.

Yanks won all of their championships before they bought the Bambino to support Boston theaters

rockondlouie wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 11:52 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:32 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:02 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

In Mike Ilitch's last years, when the Tigers were good, he spent a lot on payroll. The Tigers were a playoff team this year, and a $157M payroll is not high by 2025 standards. That, and the mere fact that they are shopping Skubal should indicate that "just spend whatever it takes to keep him" is likely not an option for the Tigers (or, again, Skubal isn't interested in signing there long term).

This started off with a very straight forward question: "why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?" Sometimes the obvious answer is the truth. The Tigers consistently had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in MLB from 2012 until 2017 when Mike Ilitch died. Their opening day payroll in 2025 wasn't even in the top half of the league (assuming the website I found is even close to accurate).

Mike Illitch was a poor Detroit kid who made it big (of course) in Pizza.

He was on record saying he'd spend whatever it took to bring championships to the Red Wings (it worked) and the Tigers (it didn't, thank you 2006 Cardinals ).

He was an earlier version of S. Cohen, who now has the same philosophy for this hometown Mets.

The kid doesn't have the same passion.

I'd deal Skubal too, just would hate to see the Dodgers w/another great pitcher.

Jack FA affter ‘26(22mil)……Torres same at (22mil)…..those 2 are easily replaced for less$$. No brainer to lock down your Cy Young

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 12:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 11:52 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:32 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 10:02 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:46 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Ilitch has the $$

Mike Ilitch died in 2017. The team is run by a holding company with his son as president, not sure they are willing to spend as Mike was, especially in his later years.

Even if they can afford it (every team in baseball can afford it, if they so choose), that doesn't mean Skubal is willing to sign there. Is signing a SP to likely the largest pitcher contract in history a better decision than getting a haul for Skubal in a trade? I'm not sure it is from the Tiger's perspective.

Family worth 7Bil
157mil 2025 payroll
Flaherty and Torres(44mil) combined are FA after next season.

In Mike Ilitch's last years, when the Tigers were good, he spent a lot on payroll. The Tigers were a playoff team this year, and a $157M payroll is not high by 2025 standards. That, and the mere fact that they are shopping Skubal should indicate that "just spend whatever it takes to keep him" is likely not an option for the Tigers (or, again, Skubal isn't interested in signing there long term).

This started off with a very straight forward question: "why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?" Sometimes the obvious answer is the truth. The Tigers consistently had the 4th or 5th highest payroll in MLB from 2012 until 2017 when Mike Ilitch died. Their opening day payroll in 2025 wasn't even in the top half of the league (assuming the website I found is even close to accurate).

Mike Illitch was a poor Detroit kid who made it big (of course) in Pizza.

He was on record saying he'd spend whatever it took to bring championships to the Red Wings (it worked) and the Tigers (it didn't, thank you 2006 Cardinals ).

He was an earlier version of S. Cohen, who now has the same philosophy for this hometown Mets.

The kid doesn't have the same passion.

I'd deal Skubal too, just would hate to see the Dodgers w/another great pitcher.

Jack FA affter ‘26(22mil)……Torres same at (22mil)…..those 2 are easily replaced for less$$. No brainer to lock down your Cy Young

Agreed

But the Tiger kid = BDWIII (aka Fredo).

The passion isn't there like their Father's have/had for the teams.

moose-and-squirrel wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:59 am

MrPostman01 wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:55 am Just form a new league and let the Dodgers form their own.

how is this any different than what the Yankees did back in the day?

I recall plenty of people being mad about the Yankees back then as well.

Miguel Cabrera's contract was a capital-a Albatross the last seven (7!) years.

From 2017-2023, Cabrera was paid $220 million to produce -2.4 WAR. Is it the only reason the Tigers were unable to field a competitive team during that time? No, but it played a significant role. In fact, you could probably make the argument that the back-end of his contract forced front offices to completely rethink the contracts they offer players on the wrong side of 28.

Was Miggy comparable to Albert for nearly a decade? Yes. Is he a lock to make Hall of Famer? Yes. Was it worth hamstringing his team's payroll for seven years? Probably not.

Pitchers age differently than batters, but if I'm Detroit, I've seen this movie before and I move him with the hopes and dreams of getting 75% of his production back at what'll eventually amount to 25% of the cost.

VegasVinny wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 13:08 pm Miguel Cabrera's contract was a capital-a Albatross the last seven (7!) years.

From 2017-2023, Cabrera was paid $220 million to produce -2.4 WAR. Is it the only reason the Tigers were unable to field a competitive team during that time? No, but it played a significant role. In fact, you could probably make the argument that the back-end of his contract forced front offices to completely rethink the contracts they offer players on the wrong side of 28.

Was Miggy comparable to Albert for nearly a decade? Yes. Is he a lock to make Hall of Famer? Yes. Was it worth hamstringing his team's payroll for seven years? Probably not.

Pitchers age differently than batters, but if I'm Detroit, I've seen this movie before and I move him with the hopes and dreams of getting 75% of his production back at what'll eventually amount to 25% of the cost.

This.

Dodgers are keeping their foot on the gas!

VegasVinny wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 13:08 pm Miguel Cabrera's contract was a capital-a Albatross the last seven (7!) years.

From 2017-2023, Cabrera was paid $220 million to produce -2.4 WAR. Is it the only reason the Tigers were unable to field a competitive team during that time? No, but it played a significant role. In fact, you could probably make the argument that the back-end of his contract forced front offices to completely rethink the contracts they offer players on the wrong side of 28.

Was Miggy comparable to Albert for nearly a decade? Yes. Is he a lock to make Hall of Famer? Yes. Was it worth hamstringing his team's payroll for seven years? Probably not.

Pitchers age differently than batters, but if I'm Detroit, I've seen this movie before and I move him with the hopes and dreams of getting 75% of his production back at what'll eventually amount to 25% of the cost.

I think you could continue the analogy and say Pujols' contract with the Angels was an albatross for most of his time there. He put up -0.5 fWAR over the final 6.5 years with the Angels (was worth 0.5 fWAR with the Dodgers after being traded in the final year of the contract), meaning he was worth 0 fWAR over the final 7 years. Albert was only worth 6.5 fWAR in the first three years of the deal (and over the entire deal for that matter as the aforementioned final 7 years were worth 0 fWAR).

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:31 am

rbirules wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 09:12 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑10 Dec 2025 08:57 am Why would a playoff Tigers team trade a young Cy Young SP?

Because he's a FA after 2026 and they'll lose him then and only get a draft pick in return. You can trade him now and still get a haul.

So sign him…..not like the LA pitcher is cheap

First of all we don't know if Glasnow will be part of the return. Second we don't know if Skubal is willing to sign an extension in Detroit (maybe they've tried and he is unwilling, thus they're willing to trade him). Third, there a difference between paying a top SP $30M for two years vs. giving out probably the biggest SP contract in history (ignoring Ohtani).

Thanks,

This is IMO, the biggest issue when us people on the sideline say just sign him, they have the money.
It eliminates a couple things. The free will of the players who may want to play the market, its Powerball, or may prefer
another place. It also does not give credit that a team may have or certainly has approached a player already
about staying longer. Skubal been on the planet for a bit. He's been very good to the best in his profession
for a bit. To think that they have not discussed he future borders ignorance, in my attempt to
say it gently.

It is also an issue with our own Donovan. We don't know what was said in that conversation.
We should believe that it has occurred by this point he's Arb 2. Skubal Arb 3.