STLtoday.com

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:05 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:02 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

WAR says, like many know, you are full of [shirt]

WAR is a fiction, as those who created the silly toy openly and repeatedly admit.
Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Unlike fictional fantasy league toys, that is an undeniable fact according to the data.

Your posts are bull[shirt]. Arenado started 102 games at 3b... uniKKKorn 46. Vermin 2. Hurdy Gurdy 0

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:16 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Statistically Gorman is a zero war player at third base.

NA is well above that and still has a higher ceiling.

JJW is a 2B. And Fermin is not a starter in any reality.

WAR is not a stat.
It is the exact opposite of a stat.
Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:39 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:16 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Statistically Gorman is a zero war player at third base.

NA is well above that and still has a higher ceiling.

JJW is a 2B. And Fermin is not a starter in any reality.

WAR is not a stat.
It is the exact opposite of a stat.
Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.

bull[shirt]. I posted how many games they started... lol:

You post a wrong statement. No facts

If you can't trade him and he wants out and he's blocking the future, you gotta release him. Now if he doesn't want out, then keep him as a DH/3B, but the problem is I can't see The Marmot being smart enough to juggle multiple players playing multiple positions in different games.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:43 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

Yep.

Agree
Plus.....why would you release a player and eat his ENTIRE contract when you probably move him by just increasing the $$ you send with him.
And that is whether he is blocking anyone or not?

smilinjoefission wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:48 pm If you can't trade him and he wants out and he's blocking the future, you gotta release him. Now if he doesn't want out, then keep him as a DH/3B, but the problem is I can't see The Marmot being smart enough to juggle multiple players playing multiple positions in different games.

He’s not blocking anyone. If they really earned it, they would be playing.

Heck, Gorman has had four years of essentially unlimited opportunity and still doesn’t deserve an automatic roster spot

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:53 pm

smilinjoefission wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:48 pm If you can't trade him and he wants out and he's blocking the future, you gotta release him. Now if he doesn't want out, then keep him as a DH/3B, but the problem is I can't see The Marmot being smart enough to juggle multiple players playing multiple positions in different games.

He’s not blocking anyone. If they really earned it, they would be playing.

Heck, Gorman has had four years of essentially unlimited opportunity and still doesn’t deserve an automatic roster spot

+1 and Gorman is definitely not the future he’s going to suck again next season

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Please show me a single stat where Gorman was significantly better than NA in 2025.

They're basically the same player at this point. Except Gorman strikes out about 3x as much.

Gorman can't field 3B and Ks far too often. Other than his 27 HR year, he has been a bust. Pitchers adjusted, and he never has.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:44 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:39 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:16 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Statistically Gorman is a zero war player at third base.

NA is well above that and still has a higher ceiling.

JJW is a 2B. And Fermin is not a starter in any reality.

WAR is not a stat.
It is the exact opposite of a stat.
Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.

bull[shirt]. I posted how many games they started... lol:

You post a wrong statement. No facts

Of the 4 players on the roster able to play 3b, it is statistically a fact that N/A was the least productive with the bat.
N/A had an OPS of .666 - and produced a run in each 4.01 AB's.
Gorman also had an OPS of .666 - but produced a run in each 3.93 AB's, which was slightly better.
Donovan had an OPS at .775.
Fermin's OPS was .793.
That is not a knock against N/A, nor an endorsement of the other three.
It is simply a fact.
And yes, I would expect Gorman, Donovan, Wetherholt, and even Fermin to have a better bat than N/A in 2026.

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 20:00 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Please show me a single stat where Gorman was significantly better than NA in 2025.

They're basically the same player at this point.

When healthy NA was much superior to NG in the first half.

You don’t release him unless he’s hurt and never coming back. He seems to be healthy at this point.

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 20:07 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:44 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:39 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:16 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Statistically Gorman is a zero war player at third base.

NA is well above that and still has a higher ceiling.

JJW is a 2B. And Fermin is not a starter in any reality.

WAR is not a stat.
It is the exact opposite of a stat.
Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.

bull[shirt]. I posted how many games they started... lol:

You post a wrong statement. No facts

Of the 4 players on the roster able to play 3b, it is statistically a fact that N/A was the least productive with the bat.
N/A had an OPS of .666 - and produced a run in each 4.01 AB's.
Gorman also had an OPS of .666 - but produced a run in each 3.93 AB's, which was slightly better.
Donovan had an OPS at .775.
Fermin's OPS was .793.
That is not a knock against N/A, nor an endorsement of the other three.
It is simply a fact.
And yes, I would expect Gorman, Donovan, Wetherholt, and even Fermin to have a better bat than N/A in 2026.

Arenado is bad with the bat but way superior with the glove. Gorman sucks at hitting and in the field the only thing Gorman is superior to arenado at is striking out

smilinjoefission wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:48 pm If you can't trade him and he wants out and he's blocking the future, you gotta release him. Now if he doesn't want out, then keep him as a DH/3B, but the problem is I can't see The Marmot being smart enough to juggle multiple players playing multiple positions in different games.

Correct.
If N/A is still around in 2026, the weak-minded Marmot would play him simply because of the contract regardless of how damaging it would be to the best interest of the team.
Which is precisely what happened in 2025.
But no need to release him.
Just eat enough money for another team to take him.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 20:09 pm

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 20:00 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Please show me a single stat where Gorman was significantly better than NA in 2025.

They're basically the same player at this point.

When healthy NA was much superior to NG in the first half.

You don’t release him unless he’s hurt and never coming back. He seems to be healthy at this point.

I was only refuting Mel's claim that there were alternatives that were "far more productive" in 2025, which is clearly false.

Whether to release NA is between BDW and his pocketbook. But Saint Bloom is going to look like a bit of a clown if NA is still on the opening day roster.

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 20:15 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 20:09 pm

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 20:00 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Please show me a single stat where Gorman was significantly better than NA in 2025.

They're basically the same player at this point.

When healthy NA was much superior to NG in the first half.

You don’t release him unless he’s hurt and never coming back. He seems to be healthy at this point.

I was only refuting Mel's claim that there were alternatives that were "far more productive" in 2025, which is clearly false.

Whether to release NA is between BDW and his pocketbook. But Saint Bloom is going to look like a bit of a clown if NA is still on the opening day roster.

You aren’t wrong but I do think there’s some chance Nado is still here. The market for him doesn’t sound too active. Plus it would require a place wanting him that he would accept - and Houston has been burned once.

There’s a non zero chance that he increases his trade value by playing. Pujols had a major bounce back at age 42. Nado isn’t 42, but he is a fellow HOFer.

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:39 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 19:16 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:46 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:41 pm

C-Unit wrote: ↑08 Dec 2025 18:32 pm Well I don't see the motivation to release him since there aren't any other 3B challenging for playing time. I think the team can move forward with their plans whether they have Arenado or not.

The Cardinals have multiple players who are better at 3b right now than N/A.
That was true throughout the 2025 season as well.

Who?

You can't name one

Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.
Next year, Wetherholt will join that list - at a minimum.
Though unlikely, it would not be a shock if 2 more did as well.

Statistically Gorman is a zero war player at third base.

NA is well above that and still has a higher ceiling.

JJW is a 2B. And Fermin is not a starter in any reality.

WAR is not a stat.
It is the exact opposite of a stat.
Statistically, Gorman, Donovan, and even Fermin were all far more productive than N/A in 2025.

This is incorrect (not about WAR - I tend to agree with you here on that)
- Gorman pretty much cloned NA’s numbers last year. The only thing Gorman “far out-produced” in was in the amount of SOs he amassed…
- Fermin had 60 ABs to NA’s 400, it’s a fool who draws mass conclusions over such a discrepant sample size

- Donovan did far out produce offensively, and I do think he could a lot in at 3rd and easily replace NA with better production in 2026. However, he played zero games at that position last year, and less than 10% of his total games at that position at the MLB level (with the bulk of that play coming his rookie season)