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ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

RamFan08NY wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:27 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:52 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

My thoughts exactly! The Cardinals shouldn’t have to pay down much at all if any to get a deal done with Willson, and with a good return. Don’t get me wrong, if the Cardinals were trying to compete, he’d be worth keeping, but they aren’t. So, he is a logical player to deal. Plus I feel that he has sorta worn out his welcome with the Manager and Ownership. I would also argue how much of a team leader he is! Sure he plays with a lot of passion and fire, but sometimes that is overdone, and not necessarily good for the team. Example, leaning in or just standing there to get hit by a pitch, and then calling out your teammates for retaliating! Just dumb!
For the right return, I’d trade him in a second!

That plus all the drama when he whines about his teammates not retaliating when he deliberately gets hit by a pitch on the elbow pad. Bring in a new face or two.

Wouldn't it be nice if the team had 3 or 4 other guys who had the same fire and passion to win that WC has?

Bob Gibson showed that passion and hes a competitor. Contreras shows it and hes a whiner?

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

Burleson doesn’t have a defensive position, and Herrera is yet to play a healthy season. The trade return would have to be pretty good to justify trading him.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

Burleson doesn’t have a defensive position, and Herrera is yet to play a healthy season. The trade return would have to be pretty good to justify trading him.

Burleson 1B. Hererra DH.

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 07:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

Burleson doesn’t have a defensive position, and Herrera is yet to play a healthy season. The trade return would have to be pretty good to justify trading him.

Burleson 1B. Hererra DH.

I like both players, but that is a hope, not a plan based on demonstrated production. Also, isn’t Herrera supposed to be our Catcher next year?

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 07:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

Burleson doesn’t have a defensive position, and Herrera is yet to play a healthy season. The trade return would have to be pretty good to justify trading him.

Burleson 1B. Hererra DH.

I like both players, but that is a hope, not a plan based on demonstrated production. Also, isn’t Herrera supposed to be our Catcher next year?

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 09:20 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 07:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

Burleson doesn’t have a defensive position, and Herrera is yet to play a healthy season. The trade return would have to be pretty good to justify trading him.

Burleson 1B. Hererra DH.

I like both players, but that is a hope, not a plan based on demonstrated production. Also, isn’t Herrera supposed to be our Catcher next year?

https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/stats/

By what metric was Contreras better in 2025? HBP?

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 09:43 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 09:20 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 07:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

Burleson doesn’t have a defensive position, and Herrera is yet to play a healthy season. The trade return would have to be pretty good to justify trading him.

Burleson 1B. Hererra DH.

I like both players, but that is a hope, not a plan based on demonstrated production. Also, isn’t Herrera supposed to be our Catcher next year?

https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/stats/

By what metric was Contreras better in 2025? HBP?

Defense, playing a full season and consistently producing. Herrera has been injured every season. Butleson played 75 innings at 1B.

Also, that page opens to Contreras being #1 in HR’s.

All 3 players are worth keeping.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 14:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 09:43 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 09:20 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑22 Nov 2025 07:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 16:47 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

Burleson doesn’t have a defensive position, and Herrera is yet to play a healthy season. The trade return would have to be pretty good to justify trading him.

Burleson 1B. Hererra DH.

I like both players, but that is a hope, not a plan based on demonstrated production. Also, isn’t Herrera supposed to be our Catcher next year?

https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/stats/

By what metric was Contreras better in 2025? HBP?

Defense, playing a full season and consistently producing. Herrera has been injured every season. Butleson played 75 innings at 1B.

Also, that page opens to Contreras being #1 in HR’s.

All 3 players are worth keeping.

58 more strikeouts than Hererra for 1 home run. 62 more strikeouts than Burleson for 2 home runs. Outfield gets better with Burleson at 1B and Contreras was 1 error short of being tied for most errors. We aren't losing defense. Move him for a ballplayer.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 08:05 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

I agree. also, if Contreras could have caught it would have made a difference.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 08:10 am

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 08:05 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

I agree. also, if Contreras could have caught it would have made a difference.

He got that contract because he was a catcher - or so we thought.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 09:33 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 08:10 am

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Nov 2025 08:05 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 11:42 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 18:57 pm He is our best hitter. There is no free agent 1B that could replace his production at a cheaper price. The team only has $75 million of contracts committed, half of which come off the books next year with Gray. Unless there is a major league ready prospect coming back, it would be squandering one of our few assets.

He isn't our best hitter. Hererra and Burleson hit for much higher average, same power and higher ops while striking out far fewer times. Move Contreras for a good prospect or a starting pitcher.

I agree. also, if Contreras could have caught it would have made a difference.

He got that contract because he was a catcher - or so we thought.

A big reason WC was moved off catcher was to give IH an opportunity. WC was a total team player. It’s not his fault that IH wasn’t a good catcher and had injuries.