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Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 11:53 am The problem with all my obsessed critics have is. They whiffed on Burleson. I didn't. Don't give me all these diversions. You plainly whiffed.

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑28 Jul 2025 18:01 pm For those forum members who may be unfamiliar with Shady's usual goalpost-shifting and fact-free horsesh*t, a brief primer:

Shady: "Burleson is the next Tony Gwynn." "Burleson is the next Joey Votto." (Actual quotes)

CardsTalk consensus: Burleson is a one-dimensional player who could be a decent bench bat and/or role player on the low end, with a ceiling of a low-end starter, which has value as long as he is cost-controlled/pre-arb.

Reality: At age 26, Tony Gwynn posted 6.2 fWAR, and Joey Votto posted 6.9 fWAR. By contrast, in his best season so far, Burleson is on pace for approx. 1.8-2.0 fWAR, and has averaged 0.45 fWAR/150 games played. Fangraphs defines a “role player” as 1-2 fWAR, and a “solid starter” as 2-3 fWAR. So once again, the many posters who said Burleson could be a good role player or even low-end starter were much closer to being “right” than Shady (“the next Tony Gwynn /Joey Votto”). Please keep this in mind whenever Shady gaslights the forum with another one of his dishonest victory laps.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:27 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

you see dead people?

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:31 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:27 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

you see dead people?

You posted, "Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone". Please explain how Saggese had a .258 BA.
By the way, I haven't seen you post congratulations to Burleson for getting a national honor for himself and the St. Louis Cardinals. Why is that?

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:38 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:31 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:27 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

you see dead people?

You posted, "Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone". Please explain how Saggese had a .258 BA.
By the way, I haven't seen you post congratulations to Burleson for getting a national honor for himself and the St. Louis Cardinals. Why is that?

I've explained Chase Rates and K Rates to you before....many, many times. And I hope you still remember what a Strike Out is...yes?

Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....28% K rate vs. 14% K rate for Burley's. You see....2 times the K Rate means that Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....Burley puts the ball in play, getting seeing eye singles at a greater rate than Saggese.

The two aren't comparable at the plate....different philosophy at the plate. So your claim that "Burleson did it, so can Saggese"...that's speculative and not backed up by Data of any sort. They both did play for the Cardinals last year, so you can make that comparsion

And when Burley won his recently made up Silver Slugger award for "Utility Player", I indeed offered a "GG"....that means "Good Game". But that has no bearing on the OP.

Burley had a better season than 2024...WAR wise. Kudos to him. He had nearly the same PA's as the other SS award winners at 1B, DH, LF, RF....but no where near the same stats. Winning at Utility with the same number of PA's is bit like "1st Loser"...maybe not even 1st Loser....I don't think he'd finish runner up to 1B, LF, and RF. Thankfully for Burley, they created a Utility SS 3 or 4 seasons ago.

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:47 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:38 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:31 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:27 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

you see dead people?

You posted, "Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone". Please explain how Saggese had a .258 BA.
By the way, I haven't seen you post congratulations to Burleson for getting a national honor for himself and the St. Louis Cardinals. Why is that?

I've explained Chase Rates and K Rates to you before....many, many times. And I hope you still remember what a Strike Out is...yes?

Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....28% K rate vs. 14% K rate for Burley's. You see....2 times the K Rate means that Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....Burley puts the ball in play, getting seeing eye singles at a greater rate than Saggese.

The two aren't comparable at the plate....different philosophy at the plate. So your claim that "Burleson did it, so can Saggese"...that's speculative and not backed up by Data of any sort. They both did play for the Cardinals last year, so you can make that comparsion

And when Burley won his recently made up Silver Slugger award for "Utility Player", I indeed offered a "GG"....that means "Good Game". But that has no bearing on the OP.

Burley had a better season than 2024...WAR wise. Kudos to him. He had nearly the same PA's as the other SS award winners at 1B, DH, LF, RF....but no where near the same stats. Winning at Utility with the same number of PA's is bit like "1st Loser"...maybe not even 1st Loser....I don't think he'd finish runner up to 1B, LF, and RF. Thankfully for Burley, they created a Utility SS 3 or 4 seasons ago.

You seem to have indicated that Burleson has peaked, offensively, at 26. Is that correct?

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:47 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:38 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:31 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:27 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

you see dead people?

You posted, "Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone". Please explain how Saggese had a .258 BA.
By the way, I haven't seen you post congratulations to Burleson for getting a national honor for himself and the St. Louis Cardinals. Why is that?

I've explained Chase Rates and K Rates to you before....many, many times. And I hope you still remember what a Strike Out is...yes?

Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....28% K rate vs. 14% K rate for Burley's. You see....2 times the K Rate means that Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....Burley puts the ball in play, getting seeing eye singles at a greater rate than Saggese.

The two aren't comparable at the plate....different philosophy at the plate. So your claim that "Burleson did it, so can Saggese"...that's speculative and not backed up by Data of any sort. They both did play for the Cardinals last year, so you can make that comparsion

And when Burley won his recently made up Silver Slugger award for "Utility Player", I indeed offered a "GG"....that means "Good Game". But that has no bearing on the OP.

Burley had a better season than 2024...WAR wise. Kudos to him. He had nearly the same PA's as the other SS award winners at 1B, DH, LF, RF....but no where near the same stats. Winning at Utility with the same number of PA's is bit like "1st Loser"...maybe not even 1st Loser....I don't think he'd finish runner up to 1B, LF, and RF. Thankfully for Burley, they created a Utility SS 3 or 4 seasons ago.

You seem to have indicated that Burleson has peaked, offensively, at 26. Is that correct?

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:47 pm You seem to have indicated that Burleson has peaked, offensively, at 26. Is that correct?

zuck698 wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:58 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:47 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:38 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:31 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:27 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:26 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 14:21 pm

Shady wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 13:58 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑15 Nov 2025 12:01 pm It should be prove it or move on for Walker and Gorman. These two need to show some sort of ability to improve now. Enough with runways for these two jokers. If they keep flailing at (bleep) pitches and watching things down the middle, they can sell peanuts.

Those that don't see much potential in Saggese need for the Cardinals to give him the runway Walker and Gorman have had. Then decide. One issue I noticed with Saggese. He's a little swing-happy, at times. Kind of like Burleson was when he came up. I look for Saggese to make progress on that like Burleson did. I like Saggese's aggressiveness at the plate. Again, similar to Burly's.

two very different approaches and results. Not comparable at all. That's tough to see from a Box Score.

Burleson swung at everything in the strike zone and out of the strike zone...he made contact, all-be-it weak contact, with most of the pitches outside of the zone...but pitchers would exploit that weakness. He cut down on that a bit this year. Kudos to him.

Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone. Two different outcomes...again, that's tough to see from a box score.

No comparison at all...except that they both were terrible in their freshman season....Saggese much more so than Burleson.

Any chance Saggese develops into a Silver Slugger like Burleson has. By the way, I see a lot of things besides what's in the "Box Score".

you see dead people?

You posted, "Saggese swings at everything and misses....out of the zone and in the zone". Please explain how Saggese had a .258 BA.
By the way, I haven't seen you post congratulations to Burleson for getting a national honor for himself and the St. Louis Cardinals. Why is that?

I've explained Chase Rates and K Rates to you before....many, many times. And I hope you still remember what a Strike Out is...yes?

Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....28% K rate vs. 14% K rate for Burley's. You see....2 times the K Rate means that Saggese "misses the ball" much more than Burleson does....Burley puts the ball in play, getting seeing eye singles at a greater rate than Saggese.

The two aren't comparable at the plate....different philosophy at the plate. So your claim that "Burleson did it, so can Saggese"...that's speculative and not backed up by Data of any sort. They both did play for the Cardinals last year, so you can make that comparsion

And when Burley won his recently made up Silver Slugger award for "Utility Player", I indeed offered a "GG"....that means "Good Game". But that has no bearing on the OP.

Burley had a better season than 2024...WAR wise. Kudos to him. He had nearly the same PA's as the other SS award winners at 1B, DH, LF, RF....but no where near the same stats. Winning at Utility with the same number of PA's is bit like "1st Loser"...maybe not even 1st Loser....I don't think he'd finish runner up to 1B, LF, and RF. Thankfully for Burley, they created a Utility SS 3 or 4 seasons ago.

You seem to have indicated that Burleson has peaked, offensively, at 26. Is that correct?

Pretty sure I didn't see that at all in Craviduce's post, but he doesn't need me to defend him. He handles himself very well with facts! I only came here to say that I am sorry Shady that you did not have any toys to play with as a child! Obviously, posting meaningless and many times plagiarized posts here, is somehow trying to fill that void for you as a child. Again, I am sorry, because if I would have known you as a child, I would have bought you something so that you could have filled the time. Now all I can offer at this point is some recommendations for you to get some counseling.