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Posted: **03 Oct 2025 08:39 am**

to be determined

it is not certain how much autonomy bloom has.....

will he be allowed to bring the dramatic changes to the organization that are required

or

will he still be subject to the long term policies of ownership which has created the current situation?

if it is the former...3-5

if it is the latter.......open ended

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 09:07 am**

A couple of smart trades and FA signings (if BDWJr keeps his word and allows C. Bloom to spend any off the books payroll from dealing NADO and/or Gray) and the Cards can compete for a WC in 2026.

H e l l

Had Mo not gone ROAD and just dealt E. Fedde this past offseason allowing McG to take his spot right out of STing they may have (would have?) made it this season!

Now that we have a real POBO, I'm excited for this winter and the moves he'll be making.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 09:14 am**

Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 06:37 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 04:32 am Good morning.

Ok teams are now eliminated. We have seen the best of baseball. You saw us all year.

How far are we from a post season appearance.

Few years
Many years
Decade
Without relying on a black swan series 2-3 years imo. Of course I’m guessing like we all are but under the premise they won’t be spending a lot trading current resources for potentially better young controlled ones and how they seem to want to allocate their money.

2-3 years best case.

Even if we win 90 games and the Central with our "plan", I don't see us winning much in the playoffs regardless of talent we develop unless some of the players plus the manager has been there before. A team completely inexperienced in the playoffs rarely does well, while a 3 seed that's gone to the NLCS year after year like the Dodgers can very likely beat anyone in any given year.

We aren't going to get the needed experience unless we compete for a WC/NLC title a lose in the playoffs a few times (which was our previous gripe thru 2022), or we bring in an experience manager and some top players who have won in the playoffs before.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 09:52 am**

Far away from what? Making the playoffs like the Reds, Red Sox, or Guardians? Or being on a level of the teams that advanced?

For both questions there are two answers, one in years if we keep the current course, and another in terms of payroll being added.

We're not far from the Reds, Red Sox, or Guardians currently, especially if we didn't sell at the deadline, and we had gapping holes that are easily identified and filled. I think if payroll was $20-25M higher (one very good player or two solid players) we could have made the playoffs over the Reds.

I don't get the impression ownership is going to increase payroll next year, and might even cut it further, so I'd say we're 2-3 years away from the playoffs (2027-2028). Probably another year or two after that to get to the level of the teams that advanced.

I think with a top 10-15 payroll (D-Backs and Giants were 13th and 14th at $178M, Red Sox were 12th at $201M, Cubs were 10th at $212M) and a smart front office we could be a playoff team, and better than the Reds or Guardians as soon as next year, and a competitive playoff team in 2027.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 10:01 am**

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 08:02 am
The Nard wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 07:40 am Then”weakest” of the playoff teams were Boston and Cincinnati . Cleveland was superior to the Cardinals in defense and pitching - both better starters and a usually solid bullpen. But They lacked the hitters to go far in the playoffs

So in my opinion, the cardinals - 2025 version - are much closer to Boston and CInci. If they can’t pick up a solid middle-of-the-order bat, and another veteran starter for 2026, they may improve to that level next season

However, What continually amazes me is the lack of baseball acumen that many of their prospects show in the field and on the bases. Make sure we have a solid team on the field, and you’ll also see ancillary improvements from the pitching staff
Your third paragraph. Lack of baseball acumen. Isn’t that hard to teach. You either have it or you don’t I’d think.

Really good coaching that stresses fundamentals is very important. This organization used to do that. Let's hope they get back there. We shall not go on a fire Oli rant, but a manager who is strong on fundamental baseball would help as well. Throw to the right base, don't make STUPID baserunning errors and we have seen many in the past month or two, two strike approach when at bat, good situational hitting, etc....

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 10:24 am**

I think it's so hard to tell how far away we are.

We're not good, but we have some talent that would play on a good team. From my eyes, we have MLB talent...but we're asking it to do more than it's capable of. Is Alec Burleson a good hitter? Yeah, I think so. Is he the type of hitter to anchor a line-up? Nope. But I could see him being a good 5-6-7 hitter. I feel the same way about Brendan Donovan.

Outside of an absolutely loaded team, they'd have roles...fairly big roles...for legit contenders. But you wouldn't be hanging a line-up on either. Maybe Herrera can be that guy. Time will tell. Even if he is, we still need at least another.

So, back to the question. How far away are we? I think that depends on what happens next. There's a newsflash. If we're committed to beefing up our development--and we should be--then I think 2-3 years.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 11:12 am**

3-5 years is their window

Must get swing and miss pitchers, starters and bullpen

Must get more power and production from outfield

Must get more athletic with baserunning and fielding

It takes time

It will take 80-90% roster churn

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 11:18 am**

Absolut wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 07:25 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 06:58 am
Absolut wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 06:52 am From being level to the best? Decade
Ok. That’s ten years to be the best. That’s long. To make the playoffs- like snow forecasts, 2-4 or 3-5 inches, I mean years.
Could be 1-2 years if they actually spend.

But the short term spending will only get them a brief post season appearance and will continue to hamstring them for the long haul, because there will always be those trade deadline deals made to bolster the MLB roster and weaken the farm.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 11:56 am**

Realistically, the Cardinals need to first develop a cost controlled young position player who is in the 5+ fWAR range, and a cost controlled young SP who is in the 4+ fWAR range. Roughly one Top 20 position player and one Top 15 starting pitcher. The Cardinals need to develop those guys because they can't afford to just buy them like the Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, etc. can.

Maybe that is Weatherholt and Doyle in 2, 3, 4 years.

With that and some cost controlled young players and SPs who are in the solid 2-3 fWAR range, then you can talk about spending to add expensive veteran players around them.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 12:19 pm**

bccardsfan wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 10:01 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 08:02 am
The Nard wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 07:40 am Then”weakest” of the playoff teams were Boston and Cincinnati . Cleveland was superior to the Cardinals in defense and pitching - both better starters and a usually solid bullpen. But They lacked the hitters to go far in the playoffs

So in my opinion, the cardinals - 2025 version - are much closer to Boston and CInci. If they can’t pick up a solid middle-of-the-order bat, and another veteran starter for 2026, they may improve to that level next season

However, What continually amazes me is the lack of baseball acumen that many of their prospects show in the field and on the bases. Make sure we have a solid team on the field, and you’ll also see ancillary improvements from the pitching staff
Your third paragraph. Lack of baseball acumen. Isn’t that hard to teach. You either have it or you don’t I’d think.
[/

Really good coaching that stresses fundamentals is very important. This organization used to do that. Let's hope they get back there. We shall not go on a fire Oli rant, but a manager who is strong on fundamental baseball would help as well. Throw to the right base, don't make STUPID baserunning errors and we have seen many in the past month or two, two strike approach when at bat, good situational hitting, etc....

I would argue that shepherding the best defense in the league and handling the bullpen as well as we have witnessed, even after three were traded, would qualify as a strong teacher of fundamental baseball. Defense is the most coachable part of baseball in terms of player attention, though I will agree base running could be shored up, and we excelled. It’s also interesting to note that those playing for him seem to like and respect him from all accounts.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 12:27 pm**

While a long term goal is winning a World Series, the Cardinals first need to become good enough to win our own division and go from there.
This year the Cardinals were 19 games out of first place. Milwaukee not only has a better ballclub currently , their farm system currently is ranked well above the Cardinals. Baseball America rated Brewers A + with Cardinals at grade B.
Bloom wants to develop the farm system . So he needs to overtake the Brewers if we wish to compete with them. WIthout winning our division, the team could make the playoffs but be faced with wildcard spots ( a much harder route ) .

So for me, it is becoming a NL Central division force . Will let the WS talk come after that . First things first !!

You don't qualify for the Olympics until you prove you are one of the best on the national team.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 12:44 pm**

This is about the commitment from upstairs, how much of a commitment is BDW willing to make. Our current payroll is headed towards 100 million for next year and this doesn’t include decisions on Arenado, Gray and Contreras. With a starting staff of
Gray
Liberatore
McGreevy
they are two quality starters from a solid starting staff. BDW can go cheap with a Pallante and Leahy and continue mediocrity or actually invest in two quality starters and make this a strength.

I can realistically see an infield next year of
1B Burleson
2B Wetherholt
SS Winn
3B Donovan
this is very economical and there is an upside here. What is untenable is a continuation of the current outfield situation. An outfield of
LF Nootbaar
CF Scott
RF Walker
has been one of the absolute worst outfields in baseball. We need at least one and I would hope two productive outfielders to add to this team.

If BDW will add two top starting pitchers and two productive outfielders, this team could win the division and be very competitive in the playoffs next year. We can act like this is a huge ask but is it really? Moving Arenado and Contreras would open up more payroll room. Moving Gray also opens up payroll room but creates a need for another starting pitcher.

If the Cardinals would move Gray, Arenado and Contreras and not reinvest those dollars, the Cardinals could run out a payroll next year under 100 million dollars. That’s insane.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 12:46 pm**

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 04:32 am Good morning.

Ok teams are now eliminated. We have seen the best of baseball. You saw us all year.

How far are we from a post season appearance.

Few years
Many years
Decade

But many years as being one of the elite teams, if ever.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 13:07 pm**

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 06:45 am
Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 06:42 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 06:40 am
Alex Reyes Cy Young wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 06:37 am
sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑03 Oct 2025 04:32 am Good morning.

Ok teams are now eliminated. We have seen the best of baseball. You saw us all year.

How far are we from a post season appearance.

Few years
Many years
Decade
Without relying on a black swan series 2-3 years imo. Of course I’m guessing like we all are but under the premise they won’t be spending a lot trading current resources for potentially better young controlled ones and how they seem to want to allocate their money.

2-3 years best case.
Yea. 2-3 based on eye test. How does the hitting compare to us, the individual at bats. Then the strategy game, bunts, stolen bases.

In truth, a run here or there per game, and we would have another conversation.
With this park and how this org has been successful run prevention should be the theme. I also think they should take the DH seriously. Either signing one or drafting and trading for one. Someone who is absolutely useless in the field but has a bat from the heavens. They exist and since they can’t perform in the field are obtainable.
How close to that DH spot does Herrera get. 20 ish home runs. Is he absolutely useless in left.

Or does it really need to be from outside the organization. Part of the reset.

After watch Jordan in RF, IF Herrera is only at that level it would be a significant improvement
to have his RHB in it over JW. The other two OFers need to bring both a bat and glove.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 14:09 pm**

This far.

Posted: **03 Oct 2025 18:39 pm**

Reality IS:

1. Depends on ownership. If they act as they did in 2023 - 2025 then minimum of 10 yrs. Within the 10 yrs DimWallet will be gone which would be the only saving grace.

IF ownership acts and demands League championships then 2028.

2. Depends on what the Brewers, Reds, Dubbies do with their personnel. IF Reds add bat and SP pitcher it will keep them above Cards. Same with Brewers. IF Dubbies keep Tucker and add SP, will never catch them for at least 7 yrs.

3. Manager and support staff (FO & field). Keep the Marmot and could be light yrs. Competent and proven manager and support staff and will get this team playing for Central title in 2028 or 29.

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