Who was the biggest bust

[craviduce]

I can't ever say CMart was a failure....3 straight seasons at 3.2 WAR....and most of that was with a shoulder that was slowly falling apart. The hell he went through to just pitch each time out was amazing...sorta like what Kobe had to go through each game day with the Lakers....or Jerome Bettis from Tuesday through Saturday to be able to walk and play on Sunday's.

He even had a go at Closer...he wasn't half bad that either.

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I don't get the fans expectations with CMart...he delivered better than Wacha and Miller, as far as careers with St. Louis is concerned.

take him off your "Bust" lists...now and going forward

[icon]

I can't ever say CMart was a failure....3 straight seasons at 3.2 WAR....and most of that was with a shoulder that was slowly falling apart. The hell he went through to just pitch each time out was amazing...sorta like what Kobe had to go through each game day with the Lakers....or Jerome Bettis from Tuesday through Saturday to be able to walk and play on Sunday's.

He even had a go at Closer...he wasn't half bad that either.

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I don't get the fans expectations with CMart...he delivered better than Wacha and Miller, as far as careers with St. Louis is concerned.

take him off your "Bust" lists...now and going forward

Yeah, the grief he takes on here by many is way out of proportion to his performance. I guess because he apparently liked strip clubs and stacked cups in the dugout?

My main problem with his pitching was not that, but his throws to bases.

[imetsatchelpaige]

Martinez was stellar for three years before he was hurt-he doesn't even belong in the conversation.
Walker, certainly, and Gorman as well. The previous post on holes in his swing was entirely correct.
But I really thought Carlson was the biggest let down. His potential was massive, and he took up CF room for a long time. A career OPS+ of 91, and he hit a whopping .203 last season with a -0.7 WAR. His average always hovered around .220 with the Cardinals. Pathetic.

[Quincy Varnish]

Martinez was stellar for three years before he was hurt-he doesn't even belong in the conversation.

Correct. 2015-18 C-Mart was top-10 NL in wins & strikeouts. That’s not a bust.

[C-Unit]

I can't ever say CMart was a failure....3 straight seasons at 3.2 WAR....and most of that was with a shoulder that was slowly falling apart. The hell he went through to just pitch each time out was amazing...sorta like what Kobe had to go through each game day with the Lakers....or Jerome Bettis from Tuesday through Saturday to be able to walk and play on Sunday's.

He even had a go at Closer...he wasn't half bad that either.

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I don't get the fans expectations with CMart...he delivered better than Wacha and Miller, as far as careers with St. Louis is concerned.

take him off your "Bust" lists...now and going forward

I'm not calling him a bust. I'm claiming he had the highest likelihood of a HOF career out of that group.

[Boiler Bird]

Dolly Parton.

[kscardsfan]

Carlson to this point. Walker catching up fast.

[Stlcardsblues]

I'm gonna make a list of players, who may or may not be considered "busts" based on how you define the word. I want you to compare each name to the wildest rose colored glasses view you ever had of said name. Which scenario would have made the biggest difference on the franchise over the last 10 years?

Carlos Martinez
Alex Reyes
Dylan Carlson
Nolan Gorman
Jordan Walker

For me it's a tie between either of the pitchers (Carlos Martinez becoming Pedro Jr or Alex Reyes throwing 200 innings and striking out 300), and Dylan Carlson if he had become more like the last switch-hitting rightfielder that wore #3 (the potential for a 20/30 high on-base switch-hitting centerfielder would have pretty impactful... especially in those lineups that had Goldschmidt and N. Arenado performing still at their best).

Feel free to throw out another name but I'm not talking about the Aledmys Diaz's of the world this is about former high-ranked prospects that were seen as future organization mainstays. We all know about the Taveras one, let's start after that.

Was ready for this to be a biggest bust in our time following the club. Guess I will hold back on my Jim Lindeman response.

Walker (while extremely disappointing), listing him as a bust is premature. For me a player has to be exiting their age 25 or 26 season.

Walker does need drastic improvements or he will enter the list.

Alex Reyes was the biggest recent history busts.

[hmoss859]

Gorman and Walker both mid-late first round busts, 19th and 21st overall

That’s on the scouting director, neither player has the “it” factor which is squarely on scouting.

Top 10 dudes usually ooze it, beyond 11, gotta do serious due diligence

Their aptitude and hunger seem lacking big-time

[desertrat23]

Walker for sure. And if the accident hadn't taken place, I think we'd have added Oscar Taveras on that list as well.

[Boiler Bird]

Morganna.

[rbirules]

In terms of the modified question of highest ceiling . . .

Reyes and Martinez both had Cy Young winning, top 5 pitcher in baseball stuff.

Walker had the physical tools to be a GG RF with elite power hitter upside (still does). Aaron Judge lite.

Gorman's lack of elite defensive talents limited his ceiling a bit.

Carlson lacked the speed and elite power to have a ceiling as high as Walker or Gorman.

[icon]

Rasmus has to be on the list. He was supposed to make us forget Jim Edmonds.

[C-Unit]

Rasmus has to be on the list. He was supposed to make us forget Jim Edmonds.

If we go back far enough that's a good one

[Ace07]

Jordan Walker





Dylan Carlson

Nolan Gorman
Alex Reyes

[Quincy Varnish]

In terms of the modified question of highest ceiling . . .

Reyes and Martinez both had Cy Young winning, top 5 pitcher in baseball stuff.

Walker had the physical tools to be a GG RF with elite power hitter upside (still does). Aaron Judge lite.

Gorman's lack of elite defensive talents limited his ceiling a bit.

Carlson lacked the speed and elite power to have a ceiling as high as Walker or Gorman.

Carlson had good tools… ran well (though probably not fast enough for CF w/o Edmonds-like instincts) and had a plus arm. His prospect rankings were higher than Gorman & C-Mart… I’m inclined to call him the biggest bust, with the jury still out on Walker.

Reyes just had a ton of arm injuries… so I’m not really comfortable calling him a “bust”.