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12xu wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:32 am

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:38 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 07:33 am Good morning.

I saw a stat in another thread, Rolen’s time here, vetse Arenados. Quite similar offensively.

So I ask- between Boyer Rolen and Nado, is there a clear leader.

Enjoy.

Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.

I agree 100%. Boyer played longer as a Cardinal, so he gets the nod overall. Defensive stat-wise, I would say that Rolen and Arenado were superior, but I saw Boyer perform only a few years when I was very young, so I cannot really compare him using the "eye test". He did win 5 gold gloves in his prime, so we know he was no slouch at the hot corner.

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:42 am

12xu wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:32 am

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:38 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 07:33 am Good morning.

I saw a stat in another thread, Rolen’s time here, vetse Arenados. Quite similar offensively.

So I ask- between Boyer Rolen and Nado, is there a clear leader.

Enjoy.

Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.

I agree 100%. Boyer played longer as a Cardinal, so he gets the nod overall. Defensive stat-wise, I would say that Rolen and Arenado were superior, but I saw Boyer perform only a few years when I was very young, so I cannot really compare him using the "eye test". He did win 5 gold gloves in his prime, so we know he was no slouch at the hot corner.

The game in those days was not played on pool table type surfaces and official score keepers didn't mind issuing errors.

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:15 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:07 am A lot of good legwork done above

So I'll just say Rolen was the best I've seen but NADO's injuries the past two season may have cost him the title.

NA may have been slightly move aerobatic with range than Rolen early in his career, but Rolen has a better arm and he was as sure handed of an out with everything he got to that I’ve ever seen.

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:15 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:07 am A lot of good legwork done above

So I'll just say Rolen was the best I've seen but NADO's injuries the past two season may have cost him the title.

NA may have been slightly move aerobatic with range than Rolen early in his career, but Rolen has a better arm and he was as sure handed of an out with everything he got to that I’ve ever seen.

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:38 am Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.

Boyer was an All-Star for seven seasons (11 All-Star Game selections)[a] , a National League (NL) Most Valuable Player (MVP), and a Gold Glove winner in five seasons. He was named the NL MVP in 1964 after batting .295 with 185 hits and leading the NL with 119 runs batted in, and leading the Cardinals to the National League pennant, their first in 18 years. In the World Series, he drove in six runs (leading all Cardinal batters) and hit a pivotal grand slam in Game 4 that helped them even the series before they won it in seven games for Boyer's first and only championship. He hit over .300 for five seasons and hit over 20 home runs for eight seasons.

He became the second third baseman to hit 250 career home runs, retiring with the third highest slugging percentage by a third baseman (.462); he was the third after Pie Traynor and Eddie Mathews to drive in 90 runs eight-times, and remains the only Cardinals player since 1900 to hit for the cycle twice. When Boyer hit 255 home runs, he was second to Stan Musial (475) with Cardinals career home runs and held the team record for a right-handed hitter from 1962 until Albert Pujols passed him in 2007. Boyer also led the NL in double plays five-times and in fielding percentage once, and retired among the all-time leaders in games (sixth, 1,785), assists (sixth, 3,652) and double plays (third, 355) at third base.

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:38 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 07:33 am Good morning.

I saw a stat in another thread, Rolen’s time here, vetse Arenados. Quite similar offensively.

So I ask- between Boyer Rolen and Nado, is there a clear leader.

Enjoy.

Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.


Boyer was an All-Star for seven seasons (11 All-Star Game selections)[a] , a National League (NL) Most Valuable Player (MVP), and a Gold Glove winner in five seasons. He was named the NL MVP in 1964 after batting .295 with 185 hits and leading the NL with 119 runs batted in, and leading the Cardinals to the National League pennant, their first in 18 years. In the World Series, he drove in six runs (leading all Cardinal batters) and hit a pivotal grand slam in Game 4 that helped them even the series before they won it in seven games for Boyer's first and only championship. He hit over .300 for five seasons and hit over 20 home runs for eight seasons.

He became the second third baseman to hit 250 career home runs, retiring with the third highest slugging percentage by a third baseman (.462); he was the third after Pie Traynor and Eddie Mathews to drive in 90 runs eight-times, and remains the only Cardinals player since 1900 to hit for the cycle twice. When Boyer hit 255 home runs, he was second to Stan Musial (475) with Cardinals career home runs and held the team record for a right-handed hitter from 1962 until Albert Pujols passed him in 2007. Boyer also led the NL in double plays five-times and in fielding percentage once, and retired among the all-time leaders in games (sixth, 1,785), assists (sixth, 3,652) and double plays (third, 355) at third base.

MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:31 am Boyer was my favorite all time Cardinal. Loved Rolen too. Arenado has been a great fielder, bat has faded with age. He seems resigned to being a goner as Rooney would say.

bccardsfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 18:19 pm Boyer for the career stats as a Cardinal. Best individual season by a Cardinal third baseman is probably Joe Torre in 1971. He hit .363! I remember that stat. Sort of like 1.12 for Gibby. I looked it up and Joe had 230 hits! 24 dingers and 137 RBIs. .976 OPS. That may well be the best single season offensive stats for a Cardinal third baseman. Certainly in my lifetime, and I saw Boyer and on...... If someone has a candidate for a better single season by a Card third baseman please do post it.

LewisL wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 18:31 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 18:19 pm Boyer for the career stats as a Cardinal. Best individual season by a Cardinal third baseman is probably Joe Torre in 1971. He hit .363! I remember that stat. Sort of like 1.12 for Gibby. I looked it up and Joe had 230 hits! 24 dingers and 137 RBIs. .976 OPS. That may well be the best single season offensive stats for a Cardinal third baseman. Certainly in my lifetime, and I saw Boyer and on...... If someone has a candidate for a better single season by a Card third baseman please do post it.

Yep, I remember Torre's big year as a ten year old just beginning to be a big fan, that year I started collecting baseball cards, listening to Buck/Shannon, idolizing Brock, Gibson, Simmons, etc.

DwaininAztec wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 16:01 pm

OldRed wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:38 am Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.

Boyer was an All-Star for seven seasons (11 All-Star Game selections)[a] , a National League (NL) Most Valuable Player (MVP), and a Gold Glove winner in five seasons. He was named the NL MVP in 1964 after batting .295 with 185 hits and leading the NL with 119 runs batted in, and leading the Cardinals to the National League pennant, their first in 18 years. In the World Series, he drove in six runs (leading all Cardinal batters) and hit a pivotal grand slam in Game 4 that helped them even the series before they won it in seven games for Boyer's first and only championship. He hit over .300 for five seasons and hit over 20 home runs for eight seasons.

He became the second third baseman to hit 250 career home runs, retiring with the third highest slugging percentage by a third baseman (.462); he was the third after Pie Traynor and Eddie Mathews to drive in 90 runs eight-times, and remains the only Cardinals player since 1900 to hit for the cycle twice. When Boyer hit 255 home runs, he was second to Stan Musial (475) with Cardinals career home runs and held the team record for a right-handed hitter from 1962 until Albert Pujols passed him in 2007. Boyer also led the NL in double plays five-times and in fielding percentage once, and retired among the all-time leaders in games (sixth, 1,785), assists (sixth, 3,652) and double plays (third, 355) at third base.

I agree about the HOF with his only weakness being his career ended too soon. Defensively, Kenny was good. Not as good as his brother, Clete who is probably the best fielding 3B of all time. I would also rate Kenny behind both Aronado and Rolen, not far behind, but behind both of them. The one word I would use is that Kenny was smooth, very smooth.

Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 17:52 pm

MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:31 am Boyer was my favorite all time Cardinal. Loved Rolen too. Arenado has been a great fielder, bat has faded with age. He seems resigned to being a goner as Rooney would say.

Ditto, Mid-Mo. Boyer was my favorite for years. The grand slam in the ‘64 WS to win the game 4-3 was just about more than my then 12 year old heart could bear. I also loved Rolen. For me, Arenado is a very distant 3rd out of those 3.

MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 21:04 pm

Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 17:52 pm

MIDMOBIRDTWO wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 08:31 am Boyer was my favorite all time Cardinal. Loved Rolen too. Arenado has been a great fielder, bat has faded with age. He seems resigned to being a goner as Rooney would say.

Ditto, Mid-Mo. Boyer was my favorite for years. The grand slam in the ‘64 WS to win the game 4-3 was just about more than my then 12 year old heart could bear. I also loved Rolen. For me, Arenado is a very distant 3rd out of those 3.

I just turned sixteen about the last game of the 64 series. I was so happy they beat the Yankees I don't think my feet touched the ground for a month. Rolen had a gun for an arm, believe he could have been a good pitcher. I always thought Arenado had a little Jim Edmonds hot dog on some of his fielding plays, but a little extra mustard can be tolerated at times!