Is arenado the best Cardinal third baseman in franchise history.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Good morning.

I saw a stat in another thread, Rolen’s time here, vetse Arenados. Quite similar offensively.

So I ask- between Boyer Rolen and Nado, is there a clear leader.

Enjoy.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Boyer wins in batting average and hits. Rolen wins on homeruns and war. Very close stats.

[The Nard]

How about in defense? My call is Rolen.

[Basil Shabazz]

Scott Rolen
25.9 bWAR 111/453 .286 .370 .510 .879 127
4 AS 3 GG 1 Top 5 MVP

Nolan Arenado
18.0 bWAR 116/421 .266 .322 .455 .777 115
3 AS 2 GG 1 Top 5 MVP

Ken Boyer
58.1 bWAR 255/1001 .293 .356 .475 .832 119
6 AS 5 GG Won the 1964 MVP


I am not sure there is a question that Boyer was and is the best Cardinals 3B ever.

Total career would be a different conversation. But Cardinals' career is Boyer.

[KeeptheRamsinSTL]

How about in defense? My call is Rolen.

I would say Arenado was the best 3rd baseman that I have seen play in the field. He is no longer elite in the field but he is still far better than anyone else on the roster at 3rd.

[imadangman]

Rolen and Arenado both tailed too early off due to injury problems. I don't like judging players in this context based on their injuries. How about comparing their first two full seasons in St Louis (when both were performing at their peak).

2003-2004 Rolen
03: .910 OPS, 137 wRC+, 6.2 fWar
04: .1.007 OPS. 159 wRC+, 9.0 fWar

2021-22 Arenado
21: .806 OPS, 112 wRC+, 4.3 fWar
22: .893 OPS, 149 wRC+, 7.2 fWar

At their peak, it's hard not to pick Rolen. Both were great. Rolen also bounced back for a .887 OPS, 5.5 fWar season in 06 with a memorable home run in the WS.

Arenado has certainly been very exciting and amazing to watch playing 3B.

We know Boyer clearly played a lot longer. If we're going off of longevity, you have to take him. I never saw him play so I can't judge his defense. For those who watched him, was he better than Rolen? What about Boyer's peak seasons? From 56-64 he had 8 seasons above 5.0 War, and 3 (60, 61, 64) that were over 6.0 War.

I think the tough question is this: is there a snapshot during Boyer's career where he displayed a "peak year" that you'd take over "peak" Rolen. Clearly, Rolen's 04 season was better than any individual Boyer season.

Boyer's 60-61 seasons look like a pretty good "peak"
60: .304 .370 .562 (.932, 144 wRC+) 6.4 War
61: .329 .397 .533 (.930, 137 wRC+) 7.1 War

Those look like pretty Rolen-esque numbers, and better than Rolen's 03 season.

I think this is how I'd call it: outside of Rolen's 04 season, I'll take Boyer.

[MIDMOBIRDTWO]

Boyer was my favorite all time Cardinal. Loved Rolen too. Arenado has been a great fielder, bat has faded with age. He seems resigned to being a goner as Rooney would say.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Thanx to all. Good analysis. So far, it’s Boyer.

[ScotchMIrish]

Absolutely not. Ken Boyer is the best in Cardinals history. .297 average 91 RBI per year 5 gold gloves 1 MVP.

All of that vs pitcher throwing from the higher mound.

[OldRed]

Good morning.

I saw a stat in another thread, Rolen’s time here, vetse Arenados. Quite similar offensively.

So I ask- between Boyer Rolen and Nado, is there a clear leader.

Enjoy.

Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.


Boyer was an All-Star for seven seasons (11 All-Star Game selections)[a] , a National League (NL) Most Valuable Player (MVP), and a Gold Glove winner in five seasons. He was named the NL MVP in 1964 after batting .295 with 185 hits and leading the NL with 119 runs batted in, and leading the Cardinals to the National League pennant, their first in 18 years. In the World Series, he drove in six runs (leading all Cardinal batters) and hit a pivotal grand slam in Game 4 that helped them even the series before they won it in seven games for Boyer's first and only championship. He hit over .300 for five seasons and hit over 20 home runs for eight seasons.

He became the second third baseman to hit 250 career home runs, retiring with the third highest slugging percentage by a third baseman (.462); he was the third after Pie Traynor and Eddie Mathews to drive in 90 runs eight-times, and remains the only Cardinals player since 1900 to hit for the cycle twice. When Boyer hit 255 home runs, he was second to Stan Musial (475) with Cardinals career home runs and held the team record for a right-handed hitter from 1962 until Albert Pujols passed him in 2007. Boyer also led the NL in double plays five-times and in fielding percentage once, and retired among the all-time leaders in games (sixth, 1,785), assists (sixth, 3,652) and double plays (third, 355) at third base.

[rockondlouie]

A lot of good legwork done above

So I'll just say Rolen was the best I've seen but NADO's injuries the past two season may have cost him the title.

[dugoutrex]

I would say he is the best defensive Cardinal 3rd baseman ever!

[Goldfan]

A lot of good legwork done above

So I'll just say Rolen was the best I've seen but NADO's injuries the past two season may have cost him the title.

NA may have been slightly move aerobatic with range than Rolen early in his career, but Rolen has a better arm and he was as sure handed of an out with everything he got to that I’ve ever seen.

[CorneliusWolfe]

I would say he is the best defensive Cardinal 3rd baseman ever!

Which says a lot considering we got him as an older player than the others. Strong cases made for Boyer though. Before my time but very impressive Cardinals resume.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Good morning.

I saw a stat in another thread, Rolen’s time here, vetse Arenados. Quite similar offensively.

So I ask- between Boyer Rolen and Nado, is there a clear leader.

Enjoy.

Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.


Boyer was an All-Star for seven seasons (11 All-Star Game selections)[a] , a National League (NL) Most Valuable Player (MVP), and a Gold Glove winner in five seasons. He was named the NL MVP in 1964 after batting .295 with 185 hits and leading the NL with 119 runs batted in, and leading the Cardinals to the National League pennant, their first in 18 years. In the World Series, he drove in six runs (leading all Cardinal batters) and hit a pivotal grand slam in Game 4 that helped them even the series before they won it in seven games for Boyer's first and only championship. He hit over .300 for five seasons and hit over 20 home runs for eight seasons.

He became the second third baseman to hit 250 career home runs, retiring with the third highest slugging percentage by a third baseman (.462); he was the third after Pie Traynor and Eddie Mathews to drive in 90 runs eight-times, and remains the only Cardinals player since 1900 to hit for the cycle twice. When Boyer hit 255 home runs, he was second to Stan Musial (475) with Cardinals career home runs and held the team record for a right-handed hitter from 1962 until Albert Pujols passed him in 2007. Boyer also led the NL in double plays five-times and in fielding percentage once, and retired among the all-time leaders in games (sixth, 1,785), assists (sixth, 3,652) and double plays (third, 355) at third base.

I didn’t have the privilege of seeing him play, but your case is compelling and sold me. Put him in!

[12xu]

Good morning.

I saw a stat in another thread, Rolen’s time here, vetse Arenados. Quite similar offensively.

So I ask- between Boyer Rolen and Nado, is there a clear leader.

Enjoy.

Again, I say Boyer should be in the HOF.

I agree 100%. Boyer played longer as a Cardinal, so he gets the nod overall. Defensive stat-wise, I would say that Rolen and Arenado were superior, but I saw Boyer perform only a few years when I was very young, so I cannot really compare him using the "eye test". He did win 5 gold gloves in his prime, so we know he was no slouch at the hot corner.