Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 11:38 am
Not that close.
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Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
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Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 12:06 pm
2 greatecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:34 am2021 and 2023 werent great.rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:31 amI'm still a fan, he gave us three great seasons and has been dinged up the last two.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:17 amI wanted NA here, but I’ve soured on him after seeing his lack of leadership, aloofness at times, and moping aroundrockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:12 amIf we acknowledge NADO has been hurt his last two season and we take their first three full seasons here:Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:06 amTake Rolen any day of week and twice on Sunday. More clutch….more impactful….
Rolen:
67 HR
256 RBI
.289 .384 .533 .917
137 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 4 MVP finish
NADO:
90 HR
301 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 3 MVP finish
The edge does go to Rolen, but still da mn close.
I'd make that deal 100/100 times.
1 good
2 bad
With 2 more$$$$ years on contract…..overall poor return for what was paid
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 12:08 pm
Agreed, Rolen was way better offensively. Even if you adjust for how good those lineups were in the early 2000s, Rolen was a key cog. A true RBI guy; I remember wanting Rolen up more than anybody (even Pujols at times) when runners were on base in a crucial moment.imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 11:38 amNot that close.
The defense is the most comparable metric and I think each had advantages in different areas there. I watched both nearly every night they played and both played elite defense. But, they looked so different on the field!
Arenado was a great hitter in his prime, but was never the hitter his Coors Field stats showed. You should look up his splits home vs away throughout his Rockies career. Here are a couple of examples:
2018 - All Star, Silver Slugger, Led the NL in HRs - OPS: 1.105 at home, 0.776 away. MVP at home, not even an all-star away. 329 point difference!
2019 - Arguably his best year - OPS: 1.057 at home, 0.867 away. Great year! But, the Coors bump was still 90 points!
Rolen hit 0.305 in his age 34 season. He followed that up with an OPS of 0.855 the next year, making the all-star team at 35 and leading the Reds to the playoffs.
Nolan Arenado has had a great career. But he hasn't had as good of a career as Rolen and certainly not as good as Rolen when they were each in a Cardinal's uniform.
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 12:11 pm
Very closeimetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 11:38 amNot that close.
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 12:13 pm
NA is an all pull one trick pony. Him always lunging at that low and away slider is mind boggling…..TXCardsFanX wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 12:08 pmAgreed, Rolen was way better offensively. Even if you adjust for how good those lineups were in the early 2000s, Rolen was a key cog. A true RBI guy; I remember wanting Rolen up more than anybody (even Pujols at times) when runners were on base in a crucial moment.imetsatchelpaige wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 11:38 amNot that close.
The defense is the most comparable metric and I think each had advantages in different areas there. I watched both nearly every night they played and both played elite defense. But, they looked so different on the field!
Arenado was a great hitter in his prime, but was never the hitter his Coors Field stats showed. You should look up his splits home vs away throughout his Rockies career. Here are a couple of examples:
2018 - All Star, Silver Slugger, Led the NL in HRs - OPS: 1.105 at home, 0.776 away. MVP at home, not even an all-star away. 329 point difference!
2019 - Arguably his best year - OPS: 1.057 at home, 0.867 away. Great year! But, the Coors bump was still 90 points!
Rolen hit 0.305 in his age 34 season. He followed that up with an OPS of 0.855 the next year, making the all-star team at 35 and leading the Reds to the playoffs.
Nolan Arenado has had a great career. But he hasn't had as good of a career as Rolen and certainly not as good as Rolen when they were each in a Cardinal's uniform.
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 13:45 pm
Really don't understand how anyone still holds any fascination for this guy.
-He rapidly declined 2-3 years ahead of a standard regression model
-horrible playoff performer, both offensive and defensively. 9th inning 2022 Game 1... a standard double play ball went right through his glove.
-brings 0 leadership
-"gamer" attitude selfishness caused him to play through injury, perhaps impacting his rapid decline and therefore letting down his organization, teammates, and fans
-visibly pouts when not playing up to par, which, again, is likely his fault from refusing to be a team player and sit when injured.
-has a penchant for errors at the worst possible times
Still an excellent defender but not worthy of the admiration he gets from some around here.
-He rapidly declined 2-3 years ahead of a standard regression model
-horrible playoff performer, both offensive and defensively. 9th inning 2022 Game 1... a standard double play ball went right through his glove.
-brings 0 leadership
-"gamer" attitude selfishness caused him to play through injury, perhaps impacting his rapid decline and therefore letting down his organization, teammates, and fans
-visibly pouts when not playing up to par, which, again, is likely his fault from refusing to be a team player and sit when injured.
-has a penchant for errors at the worst possible times
Still an excellent defender but not worthy of the admiration he gets from some around here.
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 13:58 pm
I'll be waiting on the edge of my stadium seat for the totally useless 'will he get a red jacket' thread.
Those are always good.
Those are always good.
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 13:59 pm
Rolen wins this debate every single time
Higher walk rate 8% vs 5%
Superior baserunner
Higher walk rate 8% vs 5%
Superior baserunner
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 14:04 pm
Yes, and some CT'ers are compaing the two ..that's apples to oranges ... Nado was a couple years older .. big difference as that 26-31 are so are prime years for baseball player
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 14:25 pm
2021 wasn’t great.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 12:06 pm2 greatecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:34 am2021 and 2023 werent great.rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:31 amI'm still a fan, he gave us three great seasons and has been dinged up the last two.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:17 amI wanted NA here, but I’ve soured on him after seeing his lack of leadership, aloofness at times, and moping aroundrockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:12 amIf we acknowledge NADO has been hurt his last two season and we take their first three full seasons here:Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:06 amTake Rolen any day of week and twice on Sunday. More clutch….more impactful….
Rolen:
67 HR
256 RBI
.289 .384 .533 .917
137 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 4 MVP finish
NADO:
90 HR
301 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 3 MVP finish
The edge does go to Rolen, but still da mn close.
I'd make that deal 100/100 times.
1 good
2 bad
With 2 more$$$$ years on contract…..overall poor return for what was paid
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 14:53 pm
cardstatman wrote: ↑22 Sep 2025 23:26 pm It is a shame he was in the shadow of Miles Mikolas the entire time.
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 15:12 pm
34HRecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 14:25 pm2021 wasn’t great.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 12:06 pm2 greatecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:34 am2021 and 2023 werent great.rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:31 amI'm still a fan, he gave us three great seasons and has been dinged up the last two.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:17 amI wanted NA here, but I’ve soured on him after seeing his lack of leadership, aloofness at times, and moping aroundrockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:12 amIf we acknowledge NADO has been hurt his last two season and we take their first three full seasons here:Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:06 amTake Rolen any day of week and twice on Sunday. More clutch….more impactful….
Rolen:
67 HR
256 RBI
.289 .384 .533 .917
137 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 4 MVP finish
NADO:
90 HR
301 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 3 MVP finish
The edge does go to Rolen, but still da mn close.
I'd make that deal 100/100 times.
1 good
2 bad
With 2 more$$$$ years on contract…..overall poor return for what was paid
105 RBI
81R
34 doubles
.807 OPS
I’ll give it to him…..AS, GG
Given today’s team standards we may never see 30HR and 100RBI again…..
Re: Arenado's 5 years in St. Louis (stats )
Posted: 23 Sep 2025 15:41 pm
Not by his standards. A .312 obp. Very low ops compared to his Colo norms.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 15:12 pm34HRecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 14:25 pm2021 wasn’t great.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 12:06 pm2 greatecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:34 am2021 and 2023 werent great.rockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 10:31 amI'm still a fan, he gave us three great seasons and has been dinged up the last two.Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:17 amI wanted NA here, but I’ve soured on him after seeing his lack of leadership, aloofness at times, and moping aroundrockondlouie wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:12 amIf we acknowledge NADO has been hurt his last two season and we take their first three full seasons here:Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Sep 2025 09:06 amTake Rolen any day of week and twice on Sunday. More clutch….more impactful….
Rolen:
67 HR
256 RBI
.289 .384 .533 .917
137 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 4 MVP finish
NADO:
90 HR
301 RBI
.271 .328 .495 .824
126 OPS+
3 AS games
2 GG
Top 3 MVP finish
The edge does go to Rolen, but still da mn close.
I'd make that deal 100/100 times.
1 good
2 bad
With 2 more$$$$ years on contract…..overall poor return for what was paid
105 RBI
81R
34 doubles
.807 OPS
I’ll give it to him…..AS, GG
Given today’s team standards we may never see 30HR and 100RBI again…..
Counting stats were good—-he was healthy.