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Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 14:24 pm
by CardsBest
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:16 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:48 am
Most players have their best season in year 1 or 2 and never have as good of a season.
I don't know what would compel anyone to make this claim, but it is nowhere near true.
DeJong 9 years in league 1st was his best.
Edman 7 years in league 1st was his best.
Carlson 6 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Nootbaar 5 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Gorman 4 years in league 1st full seasons as starter was his best..
Donovan 4 seasons in league 1st was his best.
Walker 3 years in league 1st was his best
Winn last season was his 1st as starter and better than this season.
It is dumb for people to make the statement that a player is young so he will get better and often people infer that. Not saying you did in this thread just saying. People overvalue youth and counting on that youth to get better.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 15:46 pm
by Wattage
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 14:24 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:16 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:48 am
Most players have their best season in year 1 or 2 and never have as good of a season.
I don't know what would compel anyone to make this claim, but it is nowhere near true.
DeJong 9 years in league 1st was his best.
Edman 7 years in league 1st was his best.
Carlson 6 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Nootbaar 5 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Gorman 4 years in league 1st full seasons as starter was his best..
Donovan 4 seasons in league 1st was his best.
Walker 3 years in league 1st was his best
Winn last season was his 1st as starter and better than this season.
It is dumb for people to make the statement that a player is young so he will get better and often people infer that. Not saying you did in this thread just saying. People overvalue youth and counting on that youth to get better.
There are certainly guys who have flash in the pan seasons but its not even close to true that most players have their best season year 1 regardless of the examples you provude.
You bended rules for winn and others to say first as starter. Also hes had 1 season since last year.
Nootbaar im not sure what you are even trying to count as his first full year- 2022 his 2nd year or 2023 his 3rd.
Donovans 1st year was barely better andnhis other years actually have been similar numbers
Carlson 1st year as starter qualifier again.
1st year as starter is so misleading because often they improved just to get pro otednto being a starter and if they didnt improve they wouldnt be starters
Also i could come up with many more players who werent best their first year. Just cuz you found examples doesnt mean it wasnt a dumb statement.
And im one of the biggest believers to say no prospects are proven. I dont think jj wetherholt is even a slam dunk like everyone else does. Walker was considered dunk and look at him.
Still doesnt mean that the statement we were reaponding to wasnt dumb.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 15:47 pm
by An Old Friend
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 14:24 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:16 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:48 am
Most players have their best season in year 1 or 2 and never have as good of a season.
I don't know what would compel anyone to make this claim, but it is nowhere near true.
DeJong 9 years in league 1st was his best.
Edman 7 years in league 1st was his best.
Carlson 6 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Nootbaar 5 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Gorman 4 years in league 1st full seasons as starter was his best..
Donovan 4 seasons in league 1st was his best.
Walker 3 years in league 1st was his best
Winn last season was his 1st as starter and better than this season.
It is dumb for people to make the statement that a player is young so he will get better and often people infer that. Not saying you did in this thread just saying. People overvalue youth and counting on that youth to get better.
So you think your statement is an accurate one?
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 16:01 pm
by ecleme22
Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 14:15 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:54 am
Saying it's easy to have success early in the big leagues is more proof that Oliver is an idiot. If it is so easy, why didn't he make it as a player? And why hasn't his young players had more success?
Get this clown out of the dugout. He should be helping Girsch schedule Fredbird events.
I think he means relatively easy compared to maintaining that success at the big-league level. (Obviously making the big leagues isn't easy.)
It's plain that team management is working hard to motivate Walker et. al. to work.
Looks like the team has a motivation problem. Happens when you draft kids on physical gifts instead of mental ones.
Good luck I guess.
Thank you for looking at Marmol's quote in a reasonable way.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 17:49 pm
by CardsBest
Wattage wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 15:46 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 14:24 pm
An Old Friend wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:16 pm
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:48 am
Most players have their best season in year 1 or 2 and never have as good of a season.
I don't know what would compel anyone to make this claim, but it is nowhere near true.
DeJong 9 years in league 1st was his best.
Edman 7 years in league 1st was his best.
Carlson 6 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Nootbaar 5 years in league 1st full season as starter was his best.
Gorman 4 years in league 1st full seasons as starter was his best..
Donovan 4 seasons in league 1st was his best.
Walker 3 years in league 1st was his best
Winn last season was his 1st as starter and better than this season.
It is dumb for people to make the statement that a player is young so he will get better and often people infer that. Not saying you did in this thread just saying. People overvalue youth and counting on that youth to get better.
There are certainly guys who have flash in the pan seasons but its not even close to true that most players have their best season year 1 regardless of the examples you provude.
You bended rules for winn and others to say first as starter. Also hes had 1 season since last year.
Nootbaar im not sure what you are even trying to count as his first full year- 2022 his 2nd year or 2023 his 3rd.
Donovans 1st year was barely better andnhis other years actually have been similar numbers
Carlson 1st year as starter qualifier again.
1st year as starter is so misleading because often they improved just to get pro otednto being a starter and if they didnt improve they wouldnt be starters
Also i could come up with many more players who werent best their first year. Just cuz you found examples doesnt mean it wasnt a dumb statement.
And im one of the biggest believers to say no prospects are proven. I dont think jj wetherholt is even a slam dunk like everyone else does. Walker was considered dunk and look at him.
Still doesnt mean that the statement we were reaponding to wasnt dumb.
All those as I mentioned was year 1 or 2 was their best season as I originally stated. You are likely one of those that like 9 high ceiling suspects starting on the team and believe every year they are going to get better because they are young. When very few pan out. Cards let this franchise go down by counting on to many young players and holding them until they had little to no value in trade. Cards have been bad at extracting value from their resources.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 18:27 pm
by WLTFE
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:45 pm
imadangman wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:29 pm
Victor Scott must feel great hearing that
Alec Burleson nods head in agreement
They make statements like this to cover up the first statement about Walker that shouldn't have been public anyway. More finger-pointing PR disaster, like the Contreras and Flaherty stuff. I wonder who the common denominator is.
3 common denominator. Marmol, Mozeliak, DeWitt.
DeWitt doesn't care anymore.
Mozeliak wanted a puppet.
Marmol is the useful idiot.
Only a few weeks and Mo-ran's legacy will be complete.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 19:01 pm
by JuanAgosto
WLTFE wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 18:27 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:45 pm
imadangman wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:29 pm
Victor Scott must feel great hearing that
Alec Burleson nods head in agreement
They make statements like this to cover up the first statement about Walker that shouldn't have been public anyway. More finger-pointing PR disaster, like the Contreras and Flaherty stuff. I wonder who the common denominator is.
3 common denominator. Marmol, Mozeliak, DeWitt.
DeWitt doesn't care anymore.
Mozeliak wanted a puppet.
Marmol is the useful idiot.
Only a few weeks and Mo-ran's legacy will be complete.
I just hope DeWitt doesn't allow him to make any major decision with long-term implications before leaving Busch.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 19:04 pm
by WLTFE
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 19:01 pm
WLTFE wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 18:27 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:45 pm
imadangman wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:29 pm
Victor Scott must feel great hearing that
Alec Burleson nods head in agreement
They make statements like this to cover up the first statement about Walker that shouldn't have been public anyway. More finger-pointing PR disaster, like the Contreras and Flaherty stuff. I wonder who the common denominator is.
3 common denominator. Marmol, Mozeliak, DeWitt.
DeWitt doesn't care anymore.
Mozeliak wanted a puppet.
Marmol is the useful idiot.
Only a few weeks and Mo-ran's legacy will be complete.
I just hope DeWitt doesn't allow him to make any major decision with long-term implications before leaving Busch.
I wouldn't let the idiot back into the ballpark
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 19:51 pm
by scoutyjones2
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:54 am
Saying it's easy to have success early in the big leagues is more proof that Oliver is an idiot. If it is so easy, why didn't he make it as a player? And why hasn't his young players had more success?
Get this clown out of the dugout. He should be helping Girsch schedule Fredbird events.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 23:22 pm
by RichieRichSTL
CardsBest wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:48 am
Marmol in talking about Walker below is why you cant have so many young players. Most players have their best season in year 1 or 2 and never have as good of a season. Once pitchers figure them out they often regress. I get tired of fans saying these guys are young and could progress. More of them fail to progress than do. To many young guys is a problem. Taking chances wih 1 or 2 is one thing but you cant have a lot of them. Larussa made them earn their playing time and had veteran proven role player bats.
Marmols statement:
“He's young, and when you first get here, it's easy to have success. That's why I love when talking to Yadi [Molina] and Albert [Pujols) and these guys have been around for a while, man, like they'll tell you, getting to the big leagues isn't the hard part as staying at the big league level. Because once these [pitchers] start to figure you out, it's very difficult to continue to flip the script and prove that you can stay.”
I wouldn't say easy. Highly talented players can and do make the majors and even do well for a time, but the league can often does catch up with them, esp. If they don't make adjustments. That makes it hard to stay in the show.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 23:52 pm
by hugeCardfan
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 05 Sep 2025 23:59 pm
by icon
Marmol needs to prove he can stay as manager. Of course, with the Mozeliak-Marmol culture, winning isn't paramount, and players are free to yuk it up while losing, so...
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 06 Sep 2025 00:35 am
by JuanAgosto
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 19:51 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 11:54 am
Saying it's easy to have success early in the big leagues is more proof that Oliver is an idiot. If it is so easy, why didn't he make it as a player? And why hasn't his young players had more success?
Get this clown out of the dugout. He should be helping Girsch schedule Fredbird events.
Yes Scouty, im sure you think Marmol is a great manager.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 06 Sep 2025 00:37 am
by JuanAgosto
WLTFE wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 19:04 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 19:01 pm
WLTFE wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 18:27 pm
JuanAgosto wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:45 pm
imadangman wrote: ↑05 Sep 2025 12:29 pm
Victor Scott must feel great hearing that
Alec Burleson nods head in agreement
They make statements like this to cover up the first statement about Walker that shouldn't have been public anyway. More finger-pointing PR disaster, like the Contreras and Flaherty stuff. I wonder who the common denominator is.
3 common denominator. Marmol, Mozeliak, DeWitt.
DeWitt doesn't care anymore.
Mozeliak wanted a puppet.
Marmol is the useful idiot.
Only a few weeks and Mo-ran's legacy will be complete.
I just hope DeWitt doesn't allow him to make any major decision with long-term implications before leaving Busch.
I wouldn't let the idiot back into the ballpark
I wouldn't be surprised if DeWitt cut a deal to make Johnny boy a part owner.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 06 Sep 2025 06:42 am
by ScotchMIrish
I'm not claiming it's easy to get to MLB. That's Marmol.
Re: Statement From Marmol Applies To All Young Players
Posted: 06 Sep 2025 07:29 am
by ecleme22
ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑06 Sep 2025 06:42 am
I'm not claiming it's easy to get to MLB. That's Marmol.
You’re looking at his quote in a disingenuous way.