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Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 12:44 pm
by Ozziesfan41
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:40 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:30 pm
njcardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:26 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:12 pm
Bully4you wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 02:24 am
Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 01:45 am
As opposed to the 12 ER in 36 IP with STL.
Finally, a trade where the Cards aren't the immediate loser lol
Baez and Dohm look promising. Based on that promise alone, that already makes this a rare win for them.
Yeah, Helsley is not a keeper long-term.
Mets won't resign him either.
He also won't get the big payday he was expecting.
Should have traded him last offseason for more.
Hard to know if Helsley could’ve gotten you more in the offseason.
How could he not? He was the best closer in the game last year. He was meh at this year’s trade deadline.
Yea it’s not hard to figure out he would have brought more when he was coming off of an All-Star dominating season had a full season of control and could be offered a QO as opposed to two months of control had already blown more saves than he had the entire previous season couldn’t be offered a QO and hitters were hitting well over .300 against his fastball. Mo was dumb and wasn’t interested in trading him or fedde because he thought this team was a post season contender
Let's remember, while RH was a lot more hittable with STL in 2025, he was still decent, with a 3.00 ERA / 21 SV / 1.1 WAR.
Unless MO/Bloom formally rejected a deal during the offseason, we don't really know.
The reason I raise this argument is based on the
demand during the trade deadline potentially increasing.
So while RH's stats weren't as sexy as March, his market potentially increased based on a team's desperation.
lol no it doesn’t. So you think players increase in value the less control they have? That’s insane. But I get you were one of the ones who were saying have to keep him in the offseason and I know you never admit being wrong so i get the flawed players increase in value with less control and when they are having a down year argument you’re trying to make so I’ll just disagree
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 12:47 pm
by ecleme22
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:44 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:40 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:30 pm
njcardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:26 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:12 pm
Bully4you wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 02:24 am
Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 01:45 am
As opposed to the 12 ER in 36 IP with STL.
Finally, a trade where the Cards aren't the immediate loser lol
Baez and Dohm look promising. Based on that promise alone, that already makes this a rare win for them.
Yeah, Helsley is not a keeper long-term.
Mets won't resign him either.
He also won't get the big payday he was expecting.
Should have traded him last offseason for more.
Hard to know if Helsley could’ve gotten you more in the offseason.
How could he not? He was the best closer in the game last year. He was meh at this year’s trade deadline.
Yea it’s not hard to figure out he would have brought more when he was coming off of an All-Star dominating season had a full season of control and could be offered a QO as opposed to two months of control had already blown more saves than he had the entire previous season couldn’t be offered a QO and hitters were hitting well over .300 against his fastball. Mo was dumb and wasn’t interested in trading him or fedde because he thought this team was a post season contender
Let's remember, while RH was a lot more hittable with STL in 2025, he was still decent, with a 3.00 ERA / 21 SV / 1.1 WAR.
Unless MO/Bloom formally rejected a deal during the offseason, we don't really know.
The reason I raise this argument is based on the
demand during the trade deadline potentially increasing.
So while RH's stats weren't as sexy as March, his market potentially increased based on a team's desperation.
lol no it doesn’t. So you think players increase in value the less control they have? That’s insane. But I get you were one of the ones who were saying have to keep him in the offseason and I know you never admit being wrong so i get the flawed players increase in value with less control and when they are having a down year argument you’re trying to make so I’ll just disagree
Sure. Many buyers at the deadline don’t care about control, but rather the current playoff push.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 13:01 pm
by renostl
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:47 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:44 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:40 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:30 pm
njcardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:26 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:12 pm
Bully4you wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 02:24 am
Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 01:45 am
As opposed to the 12 ER in 36 IP with STL.
Finally, a trade where the Cards aren't the immediate loser lol
Baez and Dohm look promising. Based on that promise alone, that already makes this a rare win for them.
Yeah, Helsley is not a keeper long-term.
Mets won't resign him either.
He also won't get the big payday he was expecting.
Should have traded him last offseason for more.
Hard to know if Helsley could’ve gotten you more in the offseason.
How could he not? He was the best closer in the game last year. He was meh at this year’s trade deadline.
Yea it’s not hard to figure out he would have brought more when he was coming off of an All-Star dominating season had a full season of control and could be offered a QO as opposed to two months of control had already blown more saves than he had the entire previous season couldn’t be offered a QO and hitters were hitting well over .300 against his fastball. Mo was dumb and wasn’t interested in trading him or fedde because he thought this team was a post season contender
Let's remember, while RH was a lot more hittable with STL in 2025, he was still decent, with a 3.00 ERA / 21 SV / 1.1 WAR.
Unless MO/Bloom formally rejected a deal during the offseason, we don't really know.
The reason I raise this argument is based on the
demand during the trade deadline potentially increasing.
So while RH's stats weren't as sexy as March, his market potentially increased based on a team's desperation.
lol no it doesn’t. So you think players increase in value the less control they have? That’s insane. But I get you were one of the ones who were saying have to keep him in the offseason and I know you never admit being wrong so i get the flawed players increase in value with less control and when they are having a down year argument you’re trying to make so I’ll just disagree
Sure. Many buyers at the deadline don’t care about control, but rather the current playoff push.
Circumstances matter.
Higher priced RPs, or other more veteran players a rental is what is wanted
versus some commitment.
Other situations with young cost-controlled productive players, the get is indeed better
but the cost to get that player obviously goes up. TD teams preferences are individual.
RH on a 3 year contract of $10/yr might have been harder to deal.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 13:36 pm
by 11WSChamps
ClassicO wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:33 pm
Melville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:41 am
Offer 4 year extension.
17M a year, with 3M deferred annually and payable beginning in 2030.
5th year team option with 2M buyout.
Player opt out after year one and two.
He would sign it.
And it would be a smart move for STL.
No way that should have ever happened.
That would have been the last straw on idiotic moves in recent seasons.
Can't belive anyone would consider that.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 13:39 pm
by icon
ClassicO wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:33 pm
Melville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:41 am
Offer 4 year extension.
17M a year, with 3M deferred annually and payable beginning in 2030.
5th year team option with 2M buyout.
Player opt out after year one and two.
He would sign it.
And it would be a smart move for STL.
Melville is always good for some laughs.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 13:43 pm
by Pura Vida
Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 01:45 am
As opposed to the 12 ER in 36 IP with STL.
Finally, a trade where the Cards aren't the immediate loser lol
Baez and Dohm look promising. Based on that promise alone, that already makes this a rare win for them.
The mark of a pro is consistency. Nothing like breaking that factor by trading someone in 1/2 days to a new team, city, and ballpark, and say,,, ok trained monkey, do your thing. 10 innings is a small sample. I don't think he's through by any measure.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 13:45 pm
by Bomber1
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:30 pm
njcardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:26 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:12 pm
Bully4you wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 02:24 am
Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 01:45 am
As opposed to the 12 ER in 36 IP with STL.
Finally, a trade where the Cards aren't the immediate loser lol
Baez and Dohm look promising. Based on that promise alone, that already makes this a rare win for them.
Yeah, Helsley is not a keeper long-term.
Mets won't resign him either.
He also won't get the big payday he was expecting.
Should have traded him last offseason for more.
Hard to know if Helsley could’ve gotten you more in the offseason.
How could he not? He was the best closer in the game last year. He was meh at this year’s trade deadline.
Yea it’s not hard to figure out he would have brought more when he was coming off of an All-Star dominating season had a full season of control and could be offered a QO as opposed to two months of control had already blown more saves than he had the entire previous season couldn’t be offered a QO and hitters were hitting well over .300 against his fastball. Mo was dumb and wasn’t interested in trading him or fedde because he thought this team was a post season contender
Yes, Mozeliak thought with Helsley and Fedde and the “emergence” of Walker and Gorman, he might actually go out a winner.
Of course Mozeliak was wrong on all counts and will go out as the loser he has proven to be.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 13:56 pm
by Bomber1
renostl wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 13:01 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:47 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:44 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:40 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:30 pm
njcardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:26 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:12 pm
Bully4you wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 02:24 am
Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 01:45 am
As opposed to the 12 ER in 36 IP with STL.
Finally, a trade where the Cards aren't the immediate loser lol
Baez and Dohm look promising. Based on that promise alone, that already makes this a rare win for them.
Yeah, Helsley is not a keeper long-term.
Mets won't resign him either.
He also won't get the big payday he was expecting.
Should have traded him last offseason for more.
Hard to know if Helsley could’ve gotten you more in the offseason.
How could he not? He was the best closer in the game last year. He was meh at this year’s trade deadline.
Yea it’s not hard to figure out he would have brought more when he was coming off of an All-Star dominating season had a full season of control and could be offered a QO as opposed to two months of control had already blown more saves than he had the entire previous season couldn’t be offered a QO and hitters were hitting well over .300 against his fastball. Mo was dumb and wasn’t interested in trading him or fedde because he thought this team was a post season contender
Let's remember, while RH was a lot more hittable with STL in 2025, he was still decent, with a 3.00 ERA / 21 SV / 1.1 WAR.
Unless MO/Bloom formally rejected a deal during the offseason, we don't really know.
The reason I raise this argument is based on the
demand during the trade deadline potentially increasing.
So while RH's stats weren't as sexy as March, his market potentially increased based on a team's desperation.
lol no it doesn’t. So you think players increase in value the less control they have? That’s insane. But I get you were one of the ones who were saying have to keep him in the offseason and I know you never admit being wrong so i get the flawed players increase in value with less control and when they are having a down year argument you’re trying to make so I’ll just disagree
Sure. Many buyers at the deadline don’t care about control, but rather the current playoff push.
Circumstances matter.
Higher priced RPs, or other more veteran players a rental is what is wanted
versus some commitment.
Other situations with young cost-controlled productive players, the get is indeed better
but the cost to get that player obviously goes up. TD teams preferences are individual.
RH on a 3 year contract of $10/yr might have been harder to deal.
I’m not sure what your point is.
Theoretically, if Helsley was in year 1 of a 3-year contract at $ 10 million/year, he might have been harder to trade?
Ok
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 13:57 pm
by hugeCardfan
Helsley's struggles in NY are problematic for him, but could be fortunate for us. Say we sign him on a prove it contract for 2M and send him to a pitching camp and they iron out his mechanics...Say, we get 2024 Helsley. Then 2027 we get a good look at where we are and whether we want to keep him around.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 14:11 pm
by renostl
Bomber1 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 13:56 pm
renostl wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 13:01 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:47 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:44 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:40 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:30 pm
njcardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:26 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:12 pm
Bully4you wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 02:24 am
Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 01:45 am
As opposed to the 12 ER in 36 IP with STL.
Finally, a trade where the Cards aren't the immediate loser lol
Baez and Dohm look promising. Based on that promise alone, that already makes this a rare win for them.
Yeah, Helsley is not a keeper long-term.
Mets won't resign him either.
He also won't get the big payday he was expecting.
Should have traded him last offseason for more.
Hard to know if Helsley could’ve gotten you more in the offseason.
How could he not? He was the best closer in the game last year. He was meh at this year’s trade deadline.
Yea it’s not hard to figure out he would have brought more when he was coming off of an All-Star dominating season had a full season of control and could be offered a QO as opposed to two months of control had already blown more saves than he had the entire previous season couldn’t be offered a QO and hitters were hitting well over .300 against his fastball. Mo was dumb and wasn’t interested in trading him or fedde because he thought this team was a post season contender
Let's remember, while RH was a lot more hittable with STL in 2025, he was still decent, with a 3.00 ERA / 21 SV / 1.1 WAR.
Unless MO/Bloom formally rejected a deal during the offseason, we don't really know.
The reason I raise this argument is based on the
demand during the trade deadline potentially increasing.
So while RH's stats weren't as sexy as March, his market potentially increased based on a team's desperation.
lol no it doesn’t. So you think players increase in value the less control they have? That’s insane. But I get you were one of the ones who were saying have to keep him in the offseason and I know you never admit being wrong so i get the flawed players increase in value with less control and when they are having a down year argument you’re trying to make so I’ll just disagree
Sure. Many buyers at the deadline don’t care about control, but rather the current playoff push.
Circumstances matter.
Higher priced RPs, or other more veteran players a rental is what is wanted
versus some commitment.
Other situations with young cost-controlled productive players, the get is indeed better
but the cost to get that player obviously goes up. TD teams preferences are individual.
RH on a 3 year contract of $10/yr might have been harder to deal.
I’m not sure what your point is.
Theoretically, if Helsley was in year 1 of a 3-year contract at $ 10 million/year, he might have been harder to trade?
Ok
There was a prior POV suggesting that it's insane that players with less control have more
value. Just agreeing with ecleme that in RH's case that having him on more term may have made him harder to move.
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 15:20 pm
by njcardfan
For no good reason, and not based at all on his performance, I still believe he’s going to turn it around and be huge for the Mets down the stretch. They’re just aren’t that many arms like his, or performances like his last year. I will try to remind myself to look back at this thread when the season is over!
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 15:23 pm
by dugoutrex
ClassicO wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 12:33 pm
Melville wrote: ↑30 May 2025 08:41 am
Offer 4 year extension.
17M a year, with 3M deferred annually and payable beginning in 2030.
5th year team option with 2M buyout.
Player opt out after year one and two.
He would sign it.
And it would be a smart move for STL.
ME ville strikes again - did he call him a unicorn too?
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 15:24 pm
by dugoutrex
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 13:57 pm
Helsley's struggles in NY are problematic for him, but could be fortunate for us. Say we sign him on a prove it contract for 2M and send him to a pitching camp and they iron out his mechanics...Say, we get 2024 Helsley. Then 2027 we get a good look at where we are and whether we want to keep him around.
Ryan will get a lot more than 2 million!
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 15:33 pm
by hugeCardfan
dugoutrex wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 15:24 pm
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 13:57 pm
Helsley's struggles in NY are problematic for him, but could be fortunate for us. Say we sign him on a prove it contract for 2M and send him to a pitching camp and they iron out his mechanics...Say, we get 2024 Helsley. Then 2027 we get a good look at where we are and whether we want to keep him around.
Ryan will get a lot more than 2 million!
Perhaps. Should he?
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 16:13 pm
by dugoutrex
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 15:33 pm
dugoutrex wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 15:24 pm
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 13:57 pm
Helsley's struggles in NY are problematic for him, but could be fortunate for us. Say we sign him on a prove it contract for 2M and send him to a pitching camp and they iron out his mechanics...Say, we get 2024 Helsley. Then 2027 we get a good look at where we are and whether we want to keep him around.
Ryan will get a lot more than 2 million!
Perhaps. Should he?
time will tell
Re: Helsley has given up 11 ER in 10.1 IP for NYM
Posted: 02 Sep 2025 16:20 pm
by ecleme22
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 15:33 pm
dugoutrex wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 15:24 pm
hugeCardfan wrote: ↑02 Sep 2025 13:57 pm
Helsley's struggles in NY are problematic for him, but could be fortunate for us. Say we sign him on a prove it contract for 2M and send him to a pitching camp and they iron out his mechanics...Say, we get 2024 Helsley. Then 2027 we get a good look at where we are and whether we want to keep him around.
Ryan will get a lot more than 2 million!
Perhaps. Should he?
I don’t think getting Helsey back should be a priority.