STLtoday.com

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:50 am We are years away from being relevant.

Welcome to baseballs skid row.

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:24 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:50 am We are years away from being relevant.

Welcome to baseballs skid row.

Skid row?? LOL.

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:24 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:50 am We are years away from being relevant.

Welcome to baseballs skid row.

Skid row?? LOL.

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:09 am What has been learned?
1. TOXIC CULTURE
2. The Marmot and his staff must be fired.
3. Winn, Gorman, Burleson, and McGreevy are the keepers from the young crop.
4. Donovan and Contreras are the only dependable veteran position players.
5. Mootbaar, Herrera, and Pallante are just warm bodies and will never be key pieces.
6. Playing N/A was a disaster.
7. Mikolas would be awful but play because of his contract - as was made clear in spring training.
8. Scott and Walker are still question marks.
9. The team is short one RH hitting corner middle order outfield bat and 2 starting pitchers.
Of course, none of that was truly "learned" over the past 130 games.
It was simply revealed.
I said every bit of it repeatedly and it all proved to be correct.

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:15 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:07 am Positives:

-Winn has become an elite defensive SS but lacks the offensive skills that could make him an all-star

-Hererra & Burleson can hit but neither has a field position

-Gorman (last 200 PA's: 12 HR/.353 OB%/.491Slg%/.845/OPS) is coming around, he's a keeper and the only true power bat in the organization but like Hererra & Burly he has no real field position (he's been awful at 3rd base, okay at 2B)

-WillyC has played well at 1st base and continues to be a solid hitter

-Libby & McG gives the rotation two young #3/4 starters to build around

-The bullpen


Negatives:

-No star players

-Starting pitching reeks............ as Gray ages leaving the team w/NO FOTR starter

-The OF has been Mo's biggest failure now for too many seasons, WEAK

-Walker is a BUST

-Pallante needs to be DFA'd

-Oli must go

I'm not as high on Libbey and McGreevy.
They aren't that great and Pallante was actually better than them a year or two ago.
Gorman, Herrera, Burleson and Contreras are really all DH's.
None are any good on the field.
We have a couple of guys with speed, but they can't get on base.
Just a [fustercluck] of a team.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:50 am We are years away from being relevant.

Welcome to baseballs skid row.

Red7 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:23 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:11 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:02 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:58 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:57 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:50 am We are years away from being relevant.

Welcome to baseballs skid row.

It's shocking how far they've fallen.
Heads should roll.
The people know, because they don't show up anymore.
Gonna be a long haul to fix this thing.

Any competent person could fix the team in under 30 days.
I could - quite easily.

Come on.
That's disingenuous.
God himself couldn't fix this disaster in a year, let alone 30 days.

Yes, I could.
It really is not difficult.
Any competent person could do so.
All that is required is the skill and the will.
Super Slo Mo possesses neither.
We are about to find out if Bloom does.

I’m guessing you could also end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours and lower inflation on Day 1. It’s amazing you don’t have a front office job in MLB.

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:32 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:09 am What has been learned?
1. TOXIC CULTURE
2. The Marmot and his staff must be fired.
3. Winn, Gorman, Burleson, and McGreevy are the keepers from the young crop.
4. Donovan and Contreras are the only dependable veteran position players.
5. Mootbaar, Herrera, and Pallante are just warm bodies and will never be key pieces.
6. Playing N/A was a disaster.
7. Mikolas would be awful but play because of his contract - as was made clear in spring training.
8. Scott and Walker are still question marks.
9. The team is short one RH hitting corner middle order outfield bat and 2 starting pitchers.
Of course, none of that was truly "learned" over the past 130 games.
It was simply revealed.
I said every bit of it repeatedly and it all proved to be correct.

So, 1 RH hitting middle order outfielder and 2 starters rights this wrong.
Well, I should say obtaining new manager as well.
Those 4 transactions will change this to a respectable team.
Maybe your right.
It depends on who you get.
So, who would you get?
How sure are you to then get them?

Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:41 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:50 am We are years away from being relevant.

Welcome to baseballs skid row.

Looking at your post, I think a fitting remembrance of Moe is to name a street after him. Something highly descriptive of his abilities as a baseball man and what he is leaving St. Louis in a few weeks. Skid Row. As Melville would say ”the perfect name” considering what he has done to the org, the city, the fans and some of the players who deserve to be here.

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:15 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:07 am Positives:

-Winn has become an elite defensive SS but lacks the offensive skills that could make him an all-star

-Hererra & Burleson can hit but neither has a field position

-Gorman (last 200 PA's: 12 HR/.353 OB%/.491Slg%/.845/OPS) is coming around, he's a keeper and the only true power bat in the organization but like Hererra & Burly he has no real field position (he's been awful at 3rd base, okay at 2B)

-WillyC has played well at 1st base and continues to be a solid hitter

-Libby & McG gives the rotation two young #3/4 starters to build around

-The bullpen


Negatives:

-No star players

-Starting pitching reeks............ as Gray ages leaving the team w/NO FOTR starter

-The OF has been Mo's biggest failure now for too many seasons, WEAK

-Walker is a BUST

-Pallante needs to be DFA'd

-Oli must go

I'm not as high on Libbey and McGreevy.
They aren't that great and Pallante was actually better than them a year or two ago.
Gorman, Herrera, Burleson and Contreras are really all DH's.
None are any good on the field.
We have a couple of guys with speed, but they can't get on base.
Just a [fustercluck] of a team.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 14:42 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:15 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:07 am Positives:

-Winn has become an elite defensive SS but lacks the offensive skills that could make him an all-star

-Hererra & Burleson can hit but neither has a field position

-Gorman (last 200 PA's: 12 HR/.353 OB%/.491Slg%/.845/OPS) is coming around, he's a keeper and the only true power bat in the organization but like Hererra & Burly he has no real field position (he's been awful at 3rd base, okay at 2B)

-WillyC has played well at 1st base and continues to be a solid hitter

-Libby & McG gives the rotation two young #3/4 starters to build around

-The bullpen


Negatives:

-No star players

-Starting pitching reeks............ as Gray ages leaving the team w/NO FOTR starter

-The OF has been Mo's biggest failure now for too many seasons, WEAK

-Walker is a BUST

-Pallante needs to be DFA'd

-Oli must go

I'm not as high on Libbey and McGreevy.
They aren't that great and Pallante was actually better than them a year or two ago.
Gorman, Herrera, Burleson and Contreras are really all DH's.
None are any good on the field.
We have a couple of guys with speed, but they can't get on base.
Just a [fustercluck] of a team.

Libby and McGreevy are fine for a #4 and #5. Assuming Doyle is a #1 or a #2 by 2027, the team still needs 2 more elite starting pitchers.

Burleson is fine in LF or RF. If they keep Gorman, then they are either trading Donovan or moving him to the OF. But, the really need a 30HR/100RBI guy in the middle of the line-up. I am not sure that Herrera can become that. I am not sure that Gorman can become that because of his high strike out rate. That argues for trading Gorman among others and getting that from the outside or hope that Baez is that in 2027.

The end result is that 2026 is likely to look a bit like 2025 with hopefully more clarity and hope going into 2027. By that, I mean, hopefully by mid/end of 2026 the Cards have Baez and Doyle in the MLs and there are signs they are legitimate players. If yes, there is more clarity and the shopping list is shorter. If not, then they are going into 2027 with the same ambiguity and a longer shopping list. If that is where the team is, it also argues for trading Donovan now, which I don't like as I think he best represents the traditional way of Cardinal baseball. Having that on the team is important.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 14:48 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 14:42 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:15 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:07 am Positives:

-Winn has become an elite defensive SS but lacks the offensive skills that could make him an all-star

-Hererra & Burleson can hit but neither has a field position

-Gorman (last 200 PA's: 12 HR/.353 OB%/.491Slg%/.845/OPS) is coming around, he's a keeper and the only true power bat in the organization but like Hererra & Burly he has no real field position (he's been awful at 3rd base, okay at 2B)

-WillyC has played well at 1st base and continues to be a solid hitter

-Libby & McG gives the rotation two young #3/4 starters to build around

-The bullpen


Negatives:

-No star players

-Starting pitching reeks............ as Gray ages leaving the team w/NO FOTR starter

-The OF has been Mo's biggest failure now for too many seasons, WEAK

-Walker is a BUST

-Pallante needs to be DFA'd

-Oli must go

I'm not as high on Libbey and McGreevy.
They aren't that great and Pallante was actually better than them a year or two ago.
Gorman, Herrera, Burleson and Contreras are really all DH's.
None are any good on the field.
We have a couple of guys with speed, but they can't get on base.
Just a [fustercluck] of a team.

Libby and McGreevy are fine for a #4 and #5. Assuming Doyle is a #1 or a #2 by 2027, the team still needs 2 more elite starting pitchers.

Burleson is fine in LF or RF. If they keep Gorman, then they are either trading Donovan or moving him to the OF. But, the really need a 30HR/100RBI guy in the middle of the line-up. I am not sure that Herrera can become that. I am not sure that Gorman can become that because of his high strike out rate. That argues for trading Gorman among others and getting that from the outside or hope that Baez is that in 2027.

The end result is that 2026 is likely to look a bit like 2025 with hopefully more clarity and hope going into 2027. By that, I mean, hopefully by mid/end of 2026 the Cards have Baez and Doyle in the MLs and there are signs they are legitimate players. If yes, there is more clarity and the shopping list is shorter. If not, then they are going into 2027 with the same ambiguity and a longer shopping list. If that is where the team is, it also argues for trading Donovan now, which I don't like as I think he best represents the traditional way of Cardinal baseball. Having that on the team is important.

Gotta keep Gorman, he's really come on strong since June 1st.

I agree on dangling both Donny & Noot for starting pitching since Bloom needs to being in two (no way we want Pallante back in the SR).

Also agree, sadly 2026 will resemble 2025 unless Bloom can pull a couple rabbits out of his hat and BDWJr gives him some payroll to work with.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:50 am We are years away from being relevant.

Welcome to baseballs skid row.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑28 Aug 2025 01:01 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 14:48 pm

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 14:42 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:15 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:07 am Positives:

-Winn has become an elite defensive SS but lacks the offensive skills that could make him an all-star

-Hererra & Burleson can hit but neither has a field position

-Gorman (last 200 PA's: 12 HR/.353 OB%/.491Slg%/.845/OPS) is coming around, he's a keeper and the only true power bat in the organization but like Hererra & Burly he has no real field position (he's been awful at 3rd base, okay at 2B)

-WillyC has played well at 1st base and continues to be a solid hitter

-Libby & McG gives the rotation two young #3/4 starters to build around

-The bullpen


Negatives:

-No star players

-Starting pitching reeks............ as Gray ages leaving the team w/NO FOTR starter

-The OF has been Mo's biggest failure now for too many seasons, WEAK

-Walker is a BUST

-Pallante needs to be DFA'd

-Oli must go

I'm not as high on Libbey and McGreevy.
They aren't that great and Pallante was actually better than them a year or two ago.
Gorman, Herrera, Burleson and Contreras are really all DH's.
None are any good on the field.
We have a couple of guys with speed, but they can't get on base.
Just a [fustercluck] of a team.

Libby and McGreevy are fine for a #4 and #5. Assuming Doyle is a #1 or a #2 by 2027, the team still needs 2 more elite starting pitchers.

Burleson is fine in LF or RF. If they keep Gorman, then they are either trading Donovan or moving him to the OF. But, the really need a 30HR/100RBI guy in the middle of the line-up. I am not sure that Herrera can become that. I am not sure that Gorman can become that because of his high strike out rate. That argues for trading Gorman among others and getting that from the outside or hope that Baez is that in 2027.

The end result is that 2026 is likely to look a bit like 2025 with hopefully more clarity and hope going into 2027. By that, I mean, hopefully by mid/end of 2026 the Cards have Baez and Doyle in the MLs and there are signs they are legitimate players. If yes, there is more clarity and the shopping list is shorter. If not, then they are going into 2027 with the same ambiguity and a longer shopping list. If that is where the team is, it also argues for trading Donovan now, which I don't like as I think he best represents the traditional way of Cardinal baseball. Having that on the team is important.

Gotta keep Gorman, he's really come on strong since June 1st.

I agree on dangling both Donny & Noot for starting pitching since Bloom needs to being in two (no way we want Pallante back in the SR).

Also agree, sadly 2026 will resemble 2025 unless Bloom can pull a couple rabbits out of his hat and BDWJr gives him some payroll to work with.

The Cardinals have interesting roster issues. If we keep both Gorman and Herrera, they both have to have positions they can play in the field. If the Cards are unable to trade Arenado and they keep Gorman, that means JJ plays 2B, Gorman is the DH and Herrera is playing LF. It also means they probably have to trade Donovan. In my mind, moving Arenado is an urgent issue and I would like to see JJ at 3B.

This will be the most interesting off season in many years. I don't think the Dewitt's are going to give Bloom more payroll. In fact, I think payroll will shrink. The only free agent additions I think they will make will be to provide innings to the extent they don't think they are available internally. I expect almost all the trades to be for near ML ready prospects. Near ML ready could either be 2026 or 2027.