More Disappointed Than Us

[Talkin' Baseball]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

Thank you for the topic. Speaking for myself no they are not more disappointed than I am. Sure Texas fans are rightfully disappointed but they have positives the Cardinal fans do not.

Their ownership is willing to spend.

Management at least is aggressive is trying to build a team.

They at least tried to put an entertaining competitive team on the field.

They are not necessarily in a management flux like the Cardinals.

I believe their talent level is better top to bottom.

I agree with your points about ownership and management. Your comment about their talent level being better from top to bottom is the point. Their record is no better than ours and they are no closer to a wildcard spot than we are. We are disappointed in ownership and management, they are disappointed in the underperformance on the field.

[TXCardsFanX]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

Thank you for the topic. Speaking for myself no they are not more disappointed than I am. Sure Texas fans are rightfully disappointed but they have positives the Cardinal fans do not.

Their ownership is willing to spend.

Management at least is aggressive is trying to build a team.

They at least tried to put an entertaining competitive team on the field.

They are not necessarily in a management flux like the Cardinals.

I believe their talent level is better top to bottom.

I have to disagree.
The Cardinals are actually performing better than expected. This is a rebuild and not the time to piece together a "competitive" team for 2025 (or 2026).
I'm not saying you can't be disappointed with the Cardinals, but the OP is right IMO. The Rangers and about half the other MLB teams should be more disappointed than STL Cardinals fans in 2025. I'd be really sad if I were Colorado right now.

[Red Bird Classic]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

Thank you for the topic. Speaking for myself no they are not more disappointed than I am. Sure Texas fans are rightfully disappointed but they have positives the Cardinal fans do not.

Their ownership is willing to spend.

Management at least is aggressive is trying to build a team.

They at least tried to put an entertaining competitive team on the field.

They are not necessarily in a management flux like the Cardinals.

I believe their talent level is better top to bottom.

I agree with your points about ownership and management. Your comment about their talent level being better from top to bottom is the point. Their record is no better than ours and they are no closer to a wildcard spot than we are. We are disappointed in ownership and management, they are disappointed in the underperformance on the field.

Maybe the Cardinals can add a couple pieces and be close to a Wild Card spot? The team still wouldn't be a serious World Series contender. So who cares?

The point is to build a serious World Series contender. For that, you'd have to add a couple of top-notch starters (way better than Sonny Gray) and maybe a middle of the order outfield bat. Plus a real closer. And all that's maybe 100-million dollars in salary. That ain't happening in 2026.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

Thank you for the topic. Speaking for myself no they are not more disappointed than I am. Sure Texas fans are rightfully disappointed but they have positives the Cardinal fans do not.

Their ownership is willing to spend.

Management at least is aggressive is trying to build a team.

They at least tried to put an entertaining competitive team on the field.

They are not necessarily in a management flux like the Cardinals.

I believe their talent level is better top to bottom.

I agree with your points about ownership and management. Your comment about their talent level being better from top to bottom is the point. Their record is no better than ours and they are no closer to a wildcard spot than we are. We are disappointed in ownership and management, they are disappointed in the underperformance on the field.

Maybe the Cardinals can add a couple pieces and be close to a Wild Card spot? The team still wouldn't be a serious World Series contender. So who cares?

The point is to build a serious World Series contender. For that, you'd have to add a couple of top-notch starters (way better than Sonny Gray) and maybe a middle of the order outfield bat. Plus a real closer. And all that's maybe 100-million dollars in salary. That ain't happening in 2026.

I agree with your ultimate goal. I have said more than once that a serious team builds for 95 wins. They intend to win their division, and the wildcard isn't really part of their calculus. If during the offseason you are talking about the wildcard, you are not serious. Having said that, at this point I care about the wildcard. Here's why- at seasons' end we will be 3 consecutive years without going to the playoffs. We won't go from where we are to being serious World Series contenders directly. Being wildcard contenders is part of the ground we have to travel for that. As a point of progress I would be happy for that. If be doing that we have "arrived", count me out. Build for 95 wins.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I think the Rangers (and Orioles) felt like they were built for 95 wins. Hence, their disappointment.

[Red Bird Classic]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

Thank you for the topic. Speaking for myself no they are not more disappointed than I am. Sure Texas fans are rightfully disappointed but they have positives the Cardinal fans do not.

Their ownership is willing to spend.

Management at least is aggressive is trying to build a team.

They at least tried to put an entertaining competitive team on the field.

They are not necessarily in a management flux like the Cardinals.

I believe their talent level is better top to bottom.

I agree with your points about ownership and management. Your comment about their talent level being better from top to bottom is the point. Their record is no better than ours and they are no closer to a wildcard spot than we are. We are disappointed in ownership and management, they are disappointed in the underperformance on the field.

Maybe the Cardinals can add a couple pieces and be close to a Wild Card spot? The team still wouldn't be a serious World Series contender. So who cares?

The point is to build a serious World Series contender. For that, you'd have to add a couple of top-notch starters (way better than Sonny Gray) and maybe a middle of the order outfield bat. Plus a real closer. And all that's maybe 100-million dollars in salary. That ain't happening in 2026.

I agree with your ultimate goal. I have said more than once that a serious team builds for 95 wins. They intend to win their division, and the wildcard isn't really part of their calculus. If during the offseason you are talking about the wildcard, you are not serious. Having said that, at this point I care about the wildcard. Here's why- at seasons' end we will be 3 consecutive years without going to the playoffs. We won't go from where we are to being serious World Series contenders directly. Being wildcard contenders is part of the ground we have to travel for that. As a point of progress I would be happy for that. If be doing that we have "arrived", count me out. Build for 95 wins.

Well said.

If we're looking at progress with a young up and coming team, a Wild Card would be a good intermediate step.

I don't think we're close enough to take that step without major free-agent acquisitions, and that (I believe) would hinder the team's long term chances. But we agree in principle.

[Bomber1]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

They won the WS 2 years ago.

Some Cardinal fans are still clinging to our last WS win which was 14 years ago.

I doubt Ranger fans are as disappointed as Cardinals fans should be.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

Thank you for the topic. Speaking for myself no they are not more disappointed than I am. Sure Texas fans are rightfully disappointed but they have positives the Cardinal fans do not.

Their ownership is willing to spend.

Management at least is aggressive is trying to build a team.

They at least tried to put an entertaining competitive team on the field.

They are not necessarily in a management flux like the Cardinals.

I believe their talent level is better top to bottom.

I agree with your points about ownership and management. Your comment about their talent level being better from top to bottom is the point. Their record is no better than ours and they are no closer to a wildcard spot than we are. We are disappointed in ownership and management, they are disappointed in the underperformance on the field.

Maybe the Cardinals can add a couple pieces and be close to a Wild Card spot? The team still wouldn't be a serious World Series contender. So who cares?

The point is to build a serious World Series contender. For that, you'd have to add a couple of top-notch starters (way better than Sonny Gray) and maybe a middle of the order outfield bat. Plus a real closer. And all that's maybe 100-million dollars in salary. That ain't happening in 2026.

I agree with your ultimate goal. I have said more than once that a serious team builds for 95 wins. They intend to win their division, and the wildcard isn't really part of their calculus. If during the offseason you are talking about the wildcard, you are not serious. Having said that, at this point I care about the wildcard. Here's why- at seasons' end we will be 3 consecutive years without going to the playoffs. We won't go from where we are to being serious World Series contenders directly. Being wildcard contenders is part of the ground we have to travel for that. As a point of progress I would be happy for that. If be doing that we have "arrived", count me out. Build for 95 wins.

Well said.

If we're looking at progress with a young up and coming team, a Wild Card would look a good intermediate step.

I don't think we're close enough to take that step without major free-agent acquisitions, and that (I believe) would hinder the team's long term chances. But we agree in principle.

It's possible that our outlook could improve if they work to de-clutter the roster. Trade a middle infielder, a left-handed OF, a catcher. If they can turn some of that into a pitcher or two worth talking about, that would be significant.

[Talkin' Baseball]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

They won the WS 2 years ago.

Some Cardinal fans are still clinging to our last WS win which was 14 years ago.

I doubt Ranger fans are as disappointed as Cardinals fans should be.

The context of the post was about the season, but I can see what you are saying.

[Red Bird Classic]

Most aren't very happy with the state of Cardinals baseball presently, but I would think the Texas Rangers have to be more disappointed than us. Both teams started the day with 63-65 records and both teams are an identical 5 games out of the last wildcard spot. The difference is we entered the season as a re-set, or in a transition. The Rangers thought they might be World Series contenders. They have a $213M payroll, the #1 pitching staff in the majors by both ERA and WHIP. They have a position player roster of mashers who have failed to mash. Disappointing times in Arlington.

Thank you for the topic. Speaking for myself no they are not more disappointed than I am. Sure Texas fans are rightfully disappointed but they have positives the Cardinal fans do not.

Their ownership is willing to spend.

Management at least is aggressive is trying to build a team.

They at least tried to put an entertaining competitive team on the field.

They are not necessarily in a management flux like the Cardinals.

I believe their talent level is better top to bottom.

I agree with your points about ownership and management. Your comment about their talent level being better from top to bottom is the point. Their record is no better than ours and they are no closer to a wildcard spot than we are. We are disappointed in ownership and management, they are disappointed in the underperformance on the field.

Maybe the Cardinals can add a couple pieces and be close to a Wild Card spot? The team still wouldn't be a serious World Series contender. So who cares?

The point is to build a serious World Series contender. For that, you'd have to add a couple of top-notch starters (way better than Sonny Gray) and maybe a middle of the order outfield bat. Plus a real closer. And all that's maybe 100-million dollars in salary. That ain't happening in 2026.

I agree with your ultimate goal. I have said more than once that a serious team builds for 95 wins. They intend to win their division, and the wildcard isn't really part of their calculus. If during the offseason you are talking about the wildcard, you are not serious. Having said that, at this point I care about the wildcard. Here's why- at seasons' end we will be 3 consecutive years without going to the playoffs. We won't go from where we are to being serious World Series contenders directly. Being wildcard contenders is part of the ground we have to travel for that. As a point of progress I would be happy for that. If be doing that we have "arrived", count me out. Build for 95 wins.

Well said.

If we're looking at progress with a young up and coming team, a Wild Card would look a good intermediate step.

I don't think we're close enough to take that step without major free-agent acquisitions, and that (I believe) would hinder the team's long term chances. But we agree in principle.

It's possible that our outlook could improve if they work to de-clutter the roster. Trade a middle infielder, a left-handed OF, a catcher. If they can turn some of that into a pitcher or two worth talking about, that would be significant.

I'm all for making the team better by adding young starters with a future, as long as those adds don't mortgage the future. But I wouldn't trade JJ for a pitcher, unless I were convinced that JJ wasn't going to mature into a top-notch player.

The Cardinals are in an interesting position: They have a lot of decent major league pieces: Donovan, Contreras, Nootbar, Scott, etc., and you need guys like that to fill out a World Series caliber team, but really only Winn stands out as a potential star. We need a few more players of Winn's caliber. I suspect JJ might be one of those pieces, so I want to keep him.

The trick in building a WS team is to find young talent, hoard all you can, develop them, and when the time is right, add a couple of top-notch free agents. But you can't do that if your team is cash strapped because you're paying for someone like Arenado, who was acquired to keep the team playoff relevant even though there was little chance that those teams were going to win a championship.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I get that Arenado is owed a lot of money for two years and that his performance doesn't match the payment- but do you think his contract has the Cardinals cash strapped? I'm skeptical.

[ScotchMIrish]

Bochy last run in Texas?

Is Schumacher being groomed to take over soon?

That would be a poor decision but I've seen it happen before in St Louis. Texas has $50 million in injured payroll.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll

[JuanAgosto]

I get that Arenado is owed a lot of money for two years and that his performance doesn't match the payment- but do you think his contract has the Cardinals cash strapped? I'm skeptical.

BDW and his wigged son will lead you believe they are poverty ridden because 3 million fans didn't show up to watch the Mozeliak and Marmol circus.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I get that Arenado is owed a lot of money for two years and that his performance doesn't match the payment- but do you think his contract has the Cardinals cash strapped? I'm skeptical.

BDW and his wigged son will lead you believe they are poverty ridden because 3 million fans didn't show up to watch the Mozeliak and Marmol circus.

Luckily for them they've been storing up dry powder for years and years.

[Red Bird Classic]

I get that Arenado is owed a lot of money for two years and that his performance doesn't match the payment- but do you think his contract has the Cardinals cash strapped? I'm skeptical.

The Cardinals are "cash strapped" in the sense that they don't have as much money as they'd like to have, meaning they can't spend more money without cutting into profits, which they don't want to do. DeWitt has a fiduciary responsibility to his partners to try and keep profits up.

Having bad contracts on the books restrains the team, which is already under budgetary restraint due to the TV deal and ticket sales, from spending even further.

We have to keep in mind that DeWitt is in this business to make money. Like it or not, that's his primary goal.

[Red Bird Classic]

I get that Arenado is owed a lot of money for two years and that his performance doesn't match the payment- but do you think his contract has the Cardinals cash strapped? I'm skeptical.

BDW and his wigged son will lead you believe they are poverty ridden because 3 million fans didn't show up to watch the Mozeliak and Marmol circus.

They've made a ton off the Cardinals, but that's why they got into the business in the first place.

They're gonna do what they can do to keep the money train going, even if that means cutting costs to match reduced revenue because of the TV deal and falling ticket sales.