Liberatore

[3dender]

Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.

The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.

2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2

Can we stop babying Liberatore?

Using the guy whose arm basically fell off at age 26 and was out of baseball at age 29 as your main example may not be the ringing endorsement you think it is.

[3dender]

When all the fanboys were losing their minds about Liberatore's start to the season I mentioned his innings were going to be a problem later on and they have.

I don't think anyone would have disagreed with you. I said the same thing and I know others did as well.

Were there a bunch of people here who weren't worried about him hitting a wall because of the way that he was used in the past? I think that if someone didn't realize this, then theyaren't paying attention.

Several people were saying he didn't need to be on an innings limit, and even ridiculing those of us who pointed out it would be prudent. At least one person whose opinion around here is taken pretty seriously and whose judgment I overall respect.

[craviduce]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

A smarter GM/POBO would have some pitching in the minors that could help. It is an org that doesn't know what it wants to be with no master plan with redundancies built in. Hopefully that changes now. It will take a few seasons to build up the system.

a smarter GM would employ a Shaman Healer to prevent all the injuries the Memphis rotation has experienced

[rockondlouie]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

A smarter GM/POBO would have some pitching in the minors that could help. It is an org that doesn't know what it wants to be with no master plan with redundancies built in. Hopefully that changes now. It will take a few seasons to build up the system.

a smarter GM would employ a Shaman Healer to prevent all the injuries the Memphis rotation has experienced

I sure hope C. Bloom/R. Cerfolio hire some good strength & conditioning coaches because I'm starting to think this is one of the worst conditioned teams in MLB and perhaps all the way down in the organization too.

[craviduce]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

A smarter GM/POBO would have some pitching in the minors that could help. It is an org that doesn't know what it wants to be with no master plan with redundancies built in. Hopefully that changes now. It will take a few seasons to build up the system.

a smarter GM would employ a Shaman Healer to prevent all the injuries the Memphis rotation has experienced

I sure hope C. Bloom/R. Cerfolio hire some good strength & conditioning coaches because I'm starting to think this is one of the worst conditioned teams in MLB and perhaps all the way down in the organization too.

but a Cajun Shaman Healer would be insane. I think we need one.

How Y'all Are?

[ScotchMIrish]

Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.

The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.

2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2

Can we stop babying Liberatore?

The difference is management decided to make Liberatore a 1 inning pitcher. Now apparently he is suffering from a tired arm. If you go from jogging 1 mile a day to 5 miles a day it will have an impact on your body.

[RunSup]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

A smarter GM/POBO would have some pitching in the minors that could help. It is an org that doesn't know what it wants to be with no master plan with redundancies built in. Hopefully that changes now. It will take a few seasons to build up the system.

a smarter GM would employ a Shaman Healer to prevent all the injuries the Memphis rotation has experienced

I sure hope C. Bloom/R. Cerfolio hire some good strength & conditioning coaches because I'm starting to think this is one of the worst conditioned teams in MLB and perhaps all the way down in the organization too.

but a Cajun Shaman Healer would be insane. I think we need one.

How Y'all Are?

Arenado is seeing one in Florida right now. Also wrestling gators for shoulder strength.

Libby's drop in velo after a few innings puts his floor back at LH reliever. Will have to see next year.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Several people were saying he didn't need to be on an innings limit, and even ridiculing those of us who pointed out it would be prudent. At least one person whose opinion around here is taken pretty seriously and whose judgment I overall respect.

Really? I thought it was pretty much common sense that we were due for Liberatore to hit a wall if he were to continue pitching as if he were just some normal starter.

Now whether you prevent that by putting him on an innings limit, use some kind of modified six man rotation, or whatever, I would have thought that it is common sense that he's not going to be able to handle a regular workload this year. You figure on a 30-40 inning increase from year to year, you're looking at 116-126 innings being the limit for him this year, with 86 IP last year. Maybe not the limit, but you know now what increasing innings like that can do to pitchers.

[craviduce]

Several people were saying he didn't need to be on an innings limit, and even ridiculing those of us who pointed out it would be prudent. At least one person whose opinion around here is taken pretty seriously and whose judgment I overall respect.

Really? I thought it was pretty much common sense that we were due for Liberatore to hit a wall if he were to continue pitching as if he were just some normal starter.

Now whether you prevent that by putting him on an innings limit, use some kind of modified six man rotation, or whatever, I would have thought that it is common sense that he's not going to be able to handle a regular workload this year. You figure on a 30-40 inning increase from year to year, you're looking at 116-126 innings being the limit for him this year, with 86 IP last year. Maybe not the limit, but you know now what increasing innings like that can do to pitchers.

I have Libby on a free pass after the ASB. He's well beyond his innings thrown from last year.

next year is the key...should be fine for 6 full months as a starter

[3dender]

Several people were saying he didn't need to be on an innings limit, and even ridiculing those of us who pointed out it would be prudent. At least one person whose opinion around here is taken pretty seriously and whose judgment I overall respect.

Really? I thought it was pretty much common sense that we were due for Liberatore to hit a wall if he were to continue pitching as if he were just some normal starter.

Now whether you prevent that by putting him on an innings limit, use some kind of modified six man rotation, or whatever, I would have thought that it is common sense that he's not going to be able to handle a regular workload this year. You figure on a 30-40 inning increase from year to year, you're looking at 116-126 innings being the limit for him this year, with 86 IP last year. Maybe not the limit, but you know now what increasing innings like that can do to pitchers.

It was pretty much common sense, which is why it is so memorable to me the handful of people on here who did not share that sense.

Unfortunately a lot of people do not have a knack for long- or even medium-term thinking.

[LCA1951]

He needs that 10-days off decision. Ray and Stevie can see that

[Quincy Varnish]

Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.

The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.

2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2

Can we stop babying Liberatore?

Ya, if they follow the Carlos Martinez plan Libby can retire before he turns 30.

[hugeCardfan]

I fully expect him to throw 150+ innings next year with little of the wear-down we've seen this year.

I was scoffed at several months back for suggesting he should have a loose innings cap this year, yet here we are with him 30 innings over last year's total, his 1st year back from being a pure reliever, and he's clearly struggling to maintain arm strength for more than a few innings.

If they keep pushing him to go 4-5 innings every 5 days there's a really good chance he'll get injured either this year or next. They don't necessarily need to shut him down, but at the very minimum they should plan to piggyback his starts with Graceffo or Leahy and pull him after 3 innings for the rest of the year.

You nailed it. This is a price to pay before building a starter. I'm not interested in throwing blame. It's just what it is. Let's get past this season and see if we have a real starter on our hands. I think we do.

[Ozziesfan41]

Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.

The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.

2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2

Can we stop babying Liberatore?

Did you also forget that he missed the end of 2015 and the entire post season because of shoulder problems and his career got completely derailed by injuries two years later? Can they please keep babying liberatore so he doesn’t go that path? I hope so

[Absolut]

Last 6 starts going back to July 5 he has only pitched 5 innings once. Probably a result of him being moved to the bullpen in 2024. I wonder if a full season of starting will build him up to where he can go deeper into games next season.

The odd decision to move him to the bullpen was to make way for some veterans near the end of their careers who were 1 and done. Very shortsighted decision.

2014: C Martinez:
89.1 IP
2015, C Martinez FT starter:
179.2

Can we stop babying Liberatore?

Why did you omit his 2014 Milb innings?

Liberatore’s got arm fatigue. He dropped 5-6 mph yesterday.

[rockondlouie]

I've said for a few weeks now he's running on empty, losing velo after 3-4 innings.

It's not his fault (IMO), rather Mo/Oli's who didn't switch him to being a starter until the final week of STing.

Give him a full offseason to train as a stater and hopefully he won't tire in August, 2026.

A smarter Manager might use an "opener" for Libby?

A smarter GM/POBO would have some pitching in the minors that could help. It is an org that doesn't know what it wants to be with no master plan with redundancies built in. Hopefully that changes now. It will take a few seasons to build up the system.

a smarter GM would employ a Shaman Healer to prevent all the injuries the Memphis rotation has experienced

I sure hope C. Bloom/R. Cerfolio hire some good strength & conditioning coaches because I'm starting to think this is one of the worst conditioned teams in MLB and perhaps all the way down in the organization too.

but a Cajun Shaman Healer would be insane. I think we need one.

How Y'all Are?