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rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 08:44 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2025 15:08 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑10 Aug 2025 09:01 am NO WAY A. Pallante can be in the

2026 starting rotation plans.

He's got similar stats to one of the worst starters in MLB, M. Mikolas:

Pallante
23 GS
4.95 ERA
4.51 FiP
1.37 WHiP
5.8 SO9

Mikolas
22 GS
5.11 ERA
4.90 FiP
1.32 WHiP
6.2 SO9

Back to trying to win a spot in the 2026 bullpen, he's NOT even a #5 major league starter.

Our entire rotation aside from Gray sucks at striking out players. So they’re all pretty much Mikolas clones.

Libby: 6.8 K/9 *5.87 K/9 over his last 14 starts*
Mikolas: 6.2/ K/9
Pallante: 5.8 K/9
Fedde: 5.6 K/9 *gone*
McGreevy: 5.2 K/9

For sure

Other than Gray, Mo stuck to the "pitch to contact" pitchers while the rest of MLB (at least the smart teams) went to power pitchers.

Why I was sooooooooooooo glad to see C. Bloom/R. Flores drafting pitchers w/KO power.

Sure other than Doyle they have some rough edges but now that the Bloom system is in place and R. Cerfolio is overseeing it we could actually sand off those rough edges and have some power pitchers!

Yep. Another way to characterize Mo’s “pitch to contact” draft strategy is “high floor, low ceiling” or “ low risk, low reward”. The problem is that it just won’t produce a post season winner in the 2020s. I too am optimistic that Bloom and Cerfolio have turned the ship towards a new draft strategy focused on some high ceiling arms.

Pallante works in the five slot. The number five game is a crappppp shoot anyway. Toss up.

Pallante has gone 5 innings or more in 7 of last 9 games, with one of those two games being 4.2 innings. He has given up 5,6,7 runs in three of the seven starts, and 2 or less in the other four.

A .500 pitcher in the five hole.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 10:22 am Pallante works in the five slot. The number five game is a crappppp shoot anyway. Toss up.

Pallante has gone 5 innings or more in 7 of last 9 games, with one of those two games being 4.2 innings. He has given up 5,6,7 runs in three of the seven starts, and 2 or less in the other four.

A .500 pitcher in the five hole.

Yep, he's frustrating, but as long as he's cost controlled, being in the 5th or as a spot starter works. Hopefully Mathews and Doyle put him into the spot starter/long relief role at some point next year, but until that time Pallante has showed enough to be at the bottom of the rotation to start next year.
It'd also be great if the Cards disagree and fortify the Rotation enough to bump him out, but realistically that probably doesn't happen.

I like Mikolas. He seems like a really good guy. I think he's actually a very smart pitcher, He's had a few very effective starts. He had a tremendous first year with the Redbirds when he returned from the Far East what, maybe 5 years ago? It just seems like his stuff isn't as good as it used to be. That's just the way I see it.

The problem has always been they have staffed their rotation largely with backend starters hoping that they exceed their talent level. Invariably, they usually come crashing back to earth as the league catches up or inconsistency has had time to present itself.

Pallente, Fedde, Mikolas was never a serious 60% of a starting rotation. Fedde had a career year last year after washing out previously. He was out of the league for a year and refined some pitches a little away from MLB hitters, but the quality or talent of his stuff didn't change drastically. So, his continued success was his ability to place pitches and be/stay unpredictable enough. Without dominating pitches like a Waino curve or a Nolan Ryan fastball, those two factors are absolutely crucial.

Pallente was a pleasant surprise in 2024, but once again he rides the tightrope of placement & deception vs. dominating pitches. Once again, it takes a special pitcher to keep that up year after year. Expecting that from the three of them was always going to be fool's gold.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 10:22 am Pallante works in the five slot. The number five game is a crappppp shoot anyway. Toss up.

Pallante has gone 5 innings or more in 7 of last 9 games, with one of those two games being 4.2 innings. He has given up 5,6,7 runs in three of the seven starts, and 2 or less in the other four.

A .500 pitcher in the five hole.

And if you have just one, you grin and bear it, but three is criminal to competitor

Very astute. Great post.
Smart guy.
I'm still pulling for Mikolas... Add Jordan Walker.
GO REDBIRDS! Cubs Lose!

illiniriles wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 10:38 am I like Mikolas. He seems like a really good guy. I think he's actually a very smart pitcher, He's had a few very effective starts. He had a tremendous first year with the Redbirds when he returned from the Far East what, maybe 5 years ago? It just seems like his stuff isn't as good as it used to be. That's just the way I see it.

His stuff has never really been that good to begin with. At his peak with us, he got 9.7% swing and miss% in 2018. It has been in the 7% range over 4 of the last 5 seasons. Among the 95 pitchers with at least 100 IP this year, only 5 pitchers in baseball have a lower swing and miss% than Mikolas.

Since 2021, of the 339 pitchers with at least 200 IP, 7 pitchers have a lower swing and miss% than Mikolas’s 7.5%. Guess what 3 of those 7 pitchers have in common? They pitched for the St. Louis Cardinals. Jake Woodford (lowest), Adam Wainwright (2nd lowest), and Dakota Hudson (the 7th). Also in the bottom 30 are Erick Fedde, Andre Pallante, and Marco Gonzales. There may be some future Cardinals on that list if Mo wasn’t retiring after this season.

So?
Catch the ball. And turn double plays when you get the chance.. Pitching to contact is not necessarily the worst way to game plan. Besides, Mikolas CAN reach back for the strike out when he really needs to. I hope he's at his best is he going tonight?

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 09:10 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 08:44 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2025 15:08 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑10 Aug 2025 09:01 am NO WAY A. Pallante can be in the

2026 starting rotation plans.

He's got similar stats to one of the worst starters in MLB, M. Mikolas:

Pallante
23 GS
4.95 ERA
4.51 FiP
1.37 WHiP
5.8 SO9

Mikolas
22 GS
5.11 ERA
4.90 FiP
1.32 WHiP
6.2 SO9

Back to trying to win a spot in the 2026 bullpen, he's NOT even a #5 major league starter.

Our entire rotation aside from Gray sucks at striking out players. So they’re all pretty much Mikolas clones.

Libby: 6.8 K/9 *5.87 K/9 over his last 14 starts*
Mikolas: 6.2/ K/9
Pallante: 5.8 K/9
Fedde: 5.6 K/9 *gone*
McGreevy: 5.2 K/9

For sure

Other than Gray, Mo stuck to the "pitch to contact" pitchers while the rest of MLB (at least the smart teams) went to power pitchers.

Why I was sooooooooooooo glad to see C. Bloom/R. Flores drafting pitchers w/KO power.

Sure other than Doyle they have some rough edges but now that the Bloom system is in place and R. Cerfolio is overseeing it we could actually sand off those rough edges and have some power pitchers!

Yep, I was looking at rankings of teams last night of SP’s with regards to ERA, K%, avg FB velo, BB%, and average against. If you averaged the rank of those categories, we came in at 24th. Only teams worse than us were the Nats, White Sox, Athletics, Rockies, Angels, and Orioles. We were saved by being 3rd in BB%. Rest of the rankings were 23rd or worse. Top tier was Phillies, Tigers, Rangers, Reds, and Mariners. Milwaukee was 6th, Pitt was 11th, and Cubs were 16th.

24th

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 10:06 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 08:44 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2025 15:08 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑10 Aug 2025 09:01 am NO WAY A. Pallante can be in the

2026 starting rotation plans.

He's got similar stats to one of the worst starters in MLB, M. Mikolas:

Pallante
23 GS
4.95 ERA
4.51 FiP
1.37 WHiP
5.8 SO9

Mikolas
22 GS
5.11 ERA
4.90 FiP
1.32 WHiP
6.2 SO9

Back to trying to win a spot in the 2026 bullpen, he's NOT even a #5 major league starter.

Our entire rotation aside from Gray sucks at striking out players. So they’re all pretty much Mikolas clones.

Libby: 6.8 K/9 *5.87 K/9 over his last 14 starts*
Mikolas: 6.2/ K/9
Pallante: 5.8 K/9
Fedde: 5.6 K/9 *gone*
McGreevy: 5.2 K/9

For sure

Other than Gray, Mo stuck to the "pitch to contact" pitchers while the rest of MLB (at least the smart teams) went to power pitchers.

Why I was sooooooooooooo glad to see C. Bloom/R. Flores drafting pitchers w/KO power.

Sure other than Doyle they have some rough edges but now that the Bloom system is in place and R. Cerfolio is overseeing it we could actually sand off those rough edges and have some power pitchers!

Yep. Another way to characterize Mo’s “pitch to contact” draft strategy is “high floor, low ceiling” or “ low risk, low reward”. The problem is that it just won’t produce a post season winner in the 2020s. I too am optimistic that Bloom and Cerfolio have turned the ship towards a new draft strategy focused on some high ceiling arms.

If just two of them (Doyle and ???) pan out and we get a legit #1 and a #2, then we've got the beginnings of a strong rotation.

illiniriles wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 11:03 am So?
Catch the ball. And turn double plays when you get the chance.. Pitching to contact is not necessarily the worst way to game plan. Besides, Mikolas CAN reach back for the strike out when he really needs to. I hope he's at his best is he going tonight?

Are you related to him? He has a 5.06 ERA over the last 3 seasons. He stinks.

Good one. No! But I like him. I think he has pitched a few good games this year. And he's due for another one. Just be ready to get him out of there if he starts giving it uo, like in the 4th or 5th.

illiniriles wrote: ↑11 Aug 2025 10:38 am I like Mikolas. He seems like a really good guy. I think he's actually a very smart pitcher, He's had a few very effective starts. He had a tremendous first year with the Redbirds when he returned from the Far East what, maybe 5 years ago? It just seems like his stuff isn't as good as it used to be. That's just the way I see it.

The first Mikolas contract was a pretty good value. The extension was sheer lunacy that we're still suffering through for some ungodly reason.

As for his personality, I think he seems like kind of a schmuck, but to each their own.

No hitter into sixth and trailing when he left in the seventh. No decision.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑12 Aug 2025 05:49 am No hitter into sixth and trailing when he left in the seventh. No decision.

Against an 88 lose team headed for 100+ loses.