Is Marmol a big part of the problem

[JuanAgosto]

I contend that Mozeliak is the biggest problem within the organization. He has squandered millions in stupid contracts. He has allowed the farm system to fall way behind. He has turned fans off with his arrogance. And he's hired managers who weren't ready for the job. Then he puts restraints on them to make it harder to succeed.

Sure, marmol has some serious deficiencies. But how many are Mo induced?

[RichieRichSTL]

I contend that Mozeliak is the biggest problem within the organization. He has squandered millions in stupid contracts. He has allowed the farm system to fall way behind. He has turned fans off with his arrogance. And he's hired managers who weren't ready for the job. Then he puts restraints on them to make it harder to succeed.

Sure, marmol has some serious deficiencies. But how many are Mo induced?

Also known as setup to fail.

[Sheepdawg]

Gotta get rid of Marmot, he's always going to be viewed as an inept manager by the fans and probably most of our players here and in the minors. Not what you want if your plans for 2026 involve winning.

[Carp4Cy]

The manager can only play the players he is given. He doesn't pitch, hit or play the field. In the end, the players either perform or they don't. There are a lot of reasons the Cards are a bad baseball team. Their success led to years of drafting in the mid 20s and you don't get top talent there. Some bad trades were made and some of the drafted players have not advanced as fast as the team would have liked, but the manager can't perform miracles.
The last two drafts have allowed STL to get players that they normally would never have a chance at drafting. Continuing to lose will offer another shot next year and they can get a core group to take a run at the big market teams.

Have you even watched college football???

Two different coaching staffs can and do get entirely different results out of the same sets of personnel. They develop them or they don’t. They motivate them or they don’t. The play the hot hand. Etc. it’s hardly all on the players.

Baseball is not that different

[JuanAgosto]

I contend that Mozeliak is the biggest problem within the organization. He has squandered millions in stupid contracts. He has allowed the farm system to fall way behind. He has turned fans off with his arrogance. And he's hired managers who weren't ready for the job. Then he puts restraints on them to make it harder to succeed.

Sure, marmol has some serious deficiencies. But how many are Mo induced?

Also known as setup to fail.

I don't think Mozeliak intentionally set Marmol up to fail. But I think his desire to control the team has caused the failure.

[Whatashame]

IMO, the play, the fundamentals of the team are always a reflection of the manager. Marmol can’t help the players that he has but he has to be held accountable for the lack of life in the team, the lack of fundamental baseball played by the team.

When I see players not hustling, not being able to move runners along, not being able to get a bunt down, that’s a problem. Pitchers not being able to manage counts, poor pitch selection, constantly falling behind to me is a manager/coach problem. He’s not throwing the pitches but allowing behaviors to continue is on him.

I think the best situation for all would be to bring in a different guy to run the 2026 Cardinals.

[Spock]

Can’t disagree with you on this—-Time For Change unfortunately

[Spock]

———-MAKE WILLSON CONTRERAS PLAYER MANAGER after Firing Marmol then in the offseason pick a past Cardinal player multiple choices Here—Possibly pick Three Manager and assistant manager and Bullpen

[CCard]

I have been getting a feeling that the current swoon has some roots in how the coaching staff is interacting with the players.

I'm really feeling that most of the problem has to do with the offense.

In my mind, we have a starting pitching staff that is just not very good.
This is more fixable by clearing the roster of some starting pitchers and a few relievers.
The relievers can bring something in the trade market, especially our closer.
Then seeing what we have with Roby, Matthews and maybe 29 yr old Curtis Taylor.
I wouldn't mind if we force fed some AA pitchers. We have 3 or 4 possibilities.
This year is lost unless a shocking complete turnaround happens in August and September.

Otherwise the more we lose the better the draft choices!!

Marmol has always come across to me as someone who is giving us the same old line.

Something like: 'Hitters are taking good ABs". 'Really making the pitcher to come to them' .
'Implying that other team is getting a lot of luck with hits that are softly hit'.
We continue to hit fly ball outs in critical ABs.

I don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
He may handle the player's weaknesses differently from what I see in the postgame message.
I really doubt that he is doing what needs to be done to affect positive changes.

In my opinion Ollie has lost the team. We can't continue to blame it on the players.
I believe that the trading deadline changes need to start with a new manager.

We need a new manager that inspires players to want do the right things.

"The problem is we've been coddling these guys too much!" LOL

[Jatalk]

In my opinion Ollie has lost the team. We can't continue to blame it on the players.
I believe that the trading deadline changes need to start with a new manager.

[/quote]

I’m ok with Oli going but the players have a lot of responsibility for what’s going on. Oli has not been provided a good team to manage. He is managing in an environment that is not good. He is in the middle of a rebuild. All the trade speculation has to be discouraging for the players.

Blame ownership and Mo first. Certainly Oli is not great but don’t let the players off the hook.

[Melville]

I contend that Mozeliak is the biggest problem within the organization. He has squandered millions in stupid contracts. He has allowed the farm system to fall way behind. He has turned fans off with his arrogance. And he's hired managers who weren't ready for the job. Then he puts restraints on them to make it harder to succeed.

Sure, marmol has some serious deficiencies. But how many are Mo induced?

Mo created the TOXIC CULTURE.

[rockondlouie]

100% part of the problem

Not qualified

Outmanaged all the time

Can't help his team create offense

No clue how to stem losing streaks

Mo's guy, too much stank on him

HAS to be fired ASAP after game 162

[moose-and-squirrel]

yup.. cause he can't hit a slider.. takes too many pitches down the middle.. can't make contact with the bat.. can't stop hanging breaking pitches in the middle of the zone..

all on Oli

[Ozziesfan41]

I don’t know how how big of a problem oli is but he’s definitely not part of the solution

[bccardsfan]

I don’t know how how big of a problem oli is but he’s definitely not part of the solution

Exactly. Get an experienced manager AND a real pitching coach who can help guys like Duncan did.

[RichieRichSTL]

I contend that Mozeliak is the biggest problem within the organization. He has squandered millions in stupid contracts. He has allowed the farm system to fall way behind. He has turned fans off with his arrogance. And he's hired managers who weren't ready for the job. Then he puts restraints on them to make it harder to succeed.

Sure, marmol has some serious deficiencies. But how many are Mo induced?

Also known as setup to fail.

I don't think Mozeliak intentionally set Marmol up to fail. But I think his desire to control the team has caused the failure.

Nonetheless, he really hasn't given the tools to succeed either. It's hard to grow as a manager when your boss is micromanaging your team. I mean literally telling you who you have to start. The players know they ultimately answer to Mo. I think we all agree Oli was thrown into the deep end of the river and told to swim, but while he is trying to keep his head above water, Mo bark out what direction he needs to swim, how fast, what swimming stroke to use, etc.

Shildt suggested that wouldnt it make more sense to travel by boat down the water. Mo didnt appreciate it.

A few players like Mikolas, if he were staying, would be sad to see Mo leave, but I think for the team it will be a fresh start. I may think my lawyer is a SOB, but if he/she successfully advocates for me, i will overlook arrogance and difficulty in responsiveness. Similarly, if Mo had shown more results and less excuses, fans would overlook his prickly, arrogant style and players would respond better. But, Mo has an arrogance that strips his results and apparently knows how to deal with grandpa Dewitt.