STLtoday.com

Strummer Jones wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:10 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 12:41 pm I wish 3B would open up as Gorman could play there at the very least. So I guess Wetherholt still has to play 2nd base with Donovan going to the OF. Maybe this is where you trade Nootbaar. Don't know what his value is, but you can't get him off this roster fast enough for me.

Wetherholt has been scorching hot so I wouldn't be opposed to having him come up this season. Do not trade Winn. Bat him 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th.

By next season you have Baez pressuring for OF time, if Scott Joplin II is still struggling Baez can go right into CF. Burleson, unfortunately has to figure into rightfield (Walker challenging) because Herrera is going to occupy the DH slot until Contreras starts to give off of 1st base.

I'd absolutely look into trading Nootbaar. Before we get into O'Neill and Carlson and Grichuk (aye aye aye) territory. And a week ago, I would've been anti-trade Winn, but...you know...? I could see where it might be beneficial. I'm not advocating that we do that. But I can see a world where it might make sense.

JDW wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 12:33 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 12:24 pm

JDW wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 12:19 pm I sure wouldn't trade Winn, instead thinking he's a core piece moving forward in tandem with Wetherholt in the middle infield.
The need to trade Arenado is glaring imo. The Yankees overall defense stinks. Nolan can help them with that. Do what it takes to trade him before the deadline.
In the 2nd half the Cards could go with an infield alignment of Donovan-Winn-Wetherholt and Contreras. That's not bad, and potentially a pretty good one.
Trade Fedde and replace with McGreevy.
The Brewers traded Hader, then last year Delvin Williams, yet this year their BP is good. OK, trading Helsley doesn't necessarily bankrupt the Cards remote chances this year, but if it does, they can still potentially form a decent BP for 2026.

Wonder what a package of Arenado, Helsley and Fedde could fetch from the Yankees.

Trade Helsley alone for a better return.

So trade Helsley alone for a better return, while also trying to deal Arenado in another trade could work.
Would that be a better strategy in your view?
Guess if it took packaging Arenado to move him even with a lesser return, I'd still be considering it. Just feel like the need to move on from Arenado is a priority, but quite possible I'm wrong.

JDW wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 12:19 pm I sure wouldn't trade Winn, instead thinking he's a core piece moving forward in tandem with Wetherholt in the middle infield.
The need to trade Arenado is glaring imo. The Yankees overall defense stinks. Nolan can help them with that. Do what it takes to trade him before the deadline.
In the 2nd half the Cards could go with an infield alignment of Donovan-Winn-Wetherholt and Contreras. That's not bad, and potentially a pretty good one.
Trade Fedde and replace with McGreevy.
The Brewers traded Hader, then last year Delvin Williams, yet this year their BP is good. OK, trading Helsley doesn't necessarily bankrupt the Cards remote chances this year, but if it does, they can still potentially form a decent BP for 2026.

Wonder what a package of Arenado, Helsley and Fedde could fetch from the Yankees.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 11:13 am IF a team comes asking for M. Winn, then you absolutely listen.

If it's a great offer, then JJ playing SS since drafted means he's called up after Winn's dealt and playing SS.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:03 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 11:41 am

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

My prediction is Aranado stays, Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and Burleson to RF. Noot, Walker, and Gorman are odd men out and on the block. Add Helsley, Matz, Fedde, Maton, and Mikolas and the Cardinals have a ton of pieces to move. Add a RH OF slugger to slit with Burleson

The reason you want to trade Helsley, Matz, Maton, Fedde and Mikolas is the same reason they won't bring a lot in return.

They’d get a return on the first 3 without a doubt

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:35 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:03 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 11:41 am

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

My prediction is Aranado stays, Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and Burleson to RF. Noot, Walker, and Gorman are odd men out and on the block. Add Helsley, Matz, Fedde, Maton, and Mikolas and the Cardinals have a ton of pieces to move. Add a RH OF slugger to slit with Burleson

The reason you want to trade Helsley, Matz, Maton, Fedde and Mikolas is the same reason they won't bring a lot in return.

They’d get a return on the first 3 without a doubt

Matz vastly overpaid in his walk year. Maton 34 years old and average stats. Both middle relievers. Helsley in his walk year. If they can get a lot I'd trade them without hesitation.

Strummer Jones wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:10 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 12:41 pm I wish 3B would open up as Gorman could play there at the very least. So I guess Wetherholt still has to play 2nd base with Donovan going to the OF. Maybe this is where you trade Nootbaar. Don't know what his value is, but you can't get him off this roster fast enough for me.

Wetherholt has been scorching hot so I wouldn't be opposed to having him come up this season. Do not trade Winn. Bat him 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th.

By next season you have Baez pressuring for OF time, if Scott Joplin II is still struggling Baez can go right into CF. Burleson, unfortunately has to figure into rightfield (Walker challenging) because Herrera is going to occupy the DH slot until Contreras starts to give off of 1st base.

I'd absolutely look into trading Nootbaar. Before we get into O'Neill and Carlson and Grichuk (aye aye aye) territory. And a week ago, I would've been anti-trade Winn, but...you know...? I could see where it might be beneficial. I'm not advocating that we do that. But I can see a world where it might make sense.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:46 pm

Strummer Jones wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:10 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 12:41 pm I wish 3B would open up as Gorman could play there at the very least. So I guess Wetherholt still has to play 2nd base with Donovan going to the OF. Maybe this is where you trade Nootbaar. Don't know what his value is, but you can't get him off this roster fast enough for me.

Wetherholt has been scorching hot so I wouldn't be opposed to having him come up this season. Do not trade Winn. Bat him 6th, 7th, 8th, or 9th.

By next season you have Baez pressuring for OF time, if Scott Joplin II is still struggling Baez can go right into CF. Burleson, unfortunately has to figure into rightfield (Walker challenging) because Herrera is going to occupy the DH slot until Contreras starts to give off of 1st base.

I'd absolutely look into trading Nootbaar. Before we get into O'Neill and Carlson and Grichuk (aye aye aye) territory. And a week ago, I would've been anti-trade Winn, but...you know...? I could see where it might be beneficial. I'm not advocating that we do that. But I can see a world where it might make sense.

I’m pretty firm against trading Winn. Only way is if you got totally blown away by an offer.

Currently leads the Cardinals in fWAR and 2nd in bWAR. He’s an elite defender at a critical defensive position and average to slightly above average with the bat and I think he has the right makeup/attitude. And he’s only 23, so he could still improve.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:33 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 11:13 am IF a team comes asking for M. Winn, then you absolutely listen.

If it's a great offer, then JJ playing SS since drafted means he's called up after Winn's dealt and playing SS.

Trade the shortstop with the best fielding % and best range factor in MLB to make room for a prospect? I'd rather have him play 3B and sit Arenado.

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

Melville wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 14:12 pm

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

I have addressed this several times.
The solution could not be more clear.
Trade Lars The Human Sushi-baar.
Move Donovan to LF.
Wetherholt, Gorman, Winn, Saggese divvy up 3B/SS/2B reps.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:54 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:33 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 11:13 am IF a team comes asking for M. Winn, then you absolutely listen.

If it's a great offer, then JJ playing SS since drafted means he's called up after Winn's dealt and playing SS.

Trade the shortstop with the best fielding % and best range factor in MLB to make room for a prospect? I'd rather have him play 3B and sit Arenado.

I'd trade Winn in a heart beat if he brought back a #2 starter with years of control or a hard hitting RH outfielder.

And that "prospect" is THE PLAYER that C. Bloom will build the team around, not Winn.

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 14:16 pm

Melville wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 14:12 pm

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

I have addressed this several times.
The solution could not be more clear.
Trade Lars The Human Sushi-baar.
Move Donovan to LF.
Wetherholt, Gorman, Winn, Saggese divvy up 3B/SS/2B reps.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

What are you doing with Arenado?

An Old Friend wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:45 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:35 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:05 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 13:03 pm

Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 11:41 am

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

My prediction is Aranado stays, Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and Burleson to RF. Noot, Walker, and Gorman are odd men out and on the block. Add Helsley, Matz, Fedde, Maton, and Mikolas and the Cardinals have a ton of pieces to move. Add a RH OF slugger to slit with Burleson

The reason you want to trade Helsley, Matz, Maton, Fedde and Mikolas is the same reason they won't bring a lot in return.

They’d get a return on the first 3 without a doubt

Matz vastly overpaid in his walk year. Maton 34 years old and average stats. Both middle relievers. Helsley in his walk year. If they can get a lot I'd trade them without hesitation.

Matz has a 5:1 strikeout to walk ratio, a .641 OPS against, and a 2.90 FIP. Every contender would want that in their bullpen.

Maton makes nothing, has a 2.50 ERA and 2 HR allowed in his last 70 appearances, and has a .618 OPS against in 2025

I don’t think you know what “average stats” are.

Melville wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 14:22 pm

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 14:16 pm

Melville wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 14:12 pm

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

I have addressed this several times.
The solution could not be more clear.
Trade Lars The Human Sushi-baar.
Move Donovan to LF.
Wetherholt, Gorman, Winn, Saggese divvy up 3B/SS/2B reps.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

What are you doing with Arenado?

See the existing thread.
Demand he accept a trade or bench him.

Youboughtit wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 11:41 am

Shady wrote: ↑22 Jul 2025 10:55 am Pretty soon, the Cardinals are going to need to open up a spot for Wetherholt. 2B or 3B. It's good to have Donovan's position flexibility.

My prediction is Aranado stays, Wetherholt to 2B Donovan to LF and Burleson to RF. Noot, Walker, and Gorman are odd men out and on the block. Add Helsley, Matz, Fedde, Maton, and Mikolas and the Cardinals have a ton of pieces to move. Add a RH OF slugger to slit with Burleson