Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 19:11 pm
It's going to be tough for some of them after Mo retires.
Of course there will always be the memories
Of course there will always be the memories
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T. O Neil update
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Of course there will always be the memories
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 19:19 pm
O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.
Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.
I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.
Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.
I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 19:20 pm
His recent record has been a bit on the shaky side.
But for his entire tenure I think he has done a solid job.
Of course just my opinion but the obsession with hating on the guy is a bit creepy.
LOL...and with Bloom already in place continuing to hate on him this season is beyond creepy.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 19:22 pm
Cuse, you don’t enjoy an occasional TO update??Cusecards wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 19:20 pmHis recent record has been a bit on the shaky side.
But for his entire tenure I think he has done a solid job.
Of course just my opinion but the obsession with hating on the guy is a bit creepy.
LOL...and with Bloom already in place continuing to hate on him this season is beyond creepy.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 19:53 pm
Mo didn’t draft ONeil. He should have kept Gonzalez. And O’Neil isn’t good.cardstatman wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 19:19 pm O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.
Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.
I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 20:07 pm
For someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.Melville wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 18:50 pmWhich yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 17:39 pmDon't confuse them with facts!JDW wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:56 pm2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.kscardsfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:37 pm Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.
The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR
Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of
Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 20:12 pm
True. Mo did not draft O'Neill but he did trade for him. Gonzalez was a very MLB average pitcher.makesnosense wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 19:53 pmMo didn’t draft ONeil. He should have kept Gonzalez. And O’Neil isn’t good.cardstatman wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 19:19 pm O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.
Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.
I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.
O'Neill was a above average player. Guys with a .781 career OPS do not grow on trees. His problem was he didn't play enough. If you have a good 4th OF, that matters little.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 20:17 pm
Overall performance???? What does a 3.2 tell you???ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 20:07 pmFor someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.Melville wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 18:50 pmWhich yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 17:39 pmDon't confuse them with facts!JDW wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:56 pm2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.kscardsfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:37 pm Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.
The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR
Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of
Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…
Winn has rather respectable WAR…..and it’s mostly his defense…..it tells you nothing. You still need to look at an offensive stat line
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 20:18 pm
ONeil was or is not an above average player. And availability is a needed part of a players makeup.cardstatman wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 20:12 pmTrue. Mo did not draft O'Neill but he did trade for him. Gonzalez was a very MLB average pitcher.makesnosense wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 19:53 pmMo didn’t draft ONeil. He should have kept Gonzalez. And O’Neil isn’t good.cardstatman wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 19:19 pm O'Neill was the best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2013 draft.
Bader was the 2nd best player chosen in the 3rd round of the 2015 draft.
I'm not a huge fan of the last 8 years of Mozeliak but these two are on the positive side of his ledger.
O'Neill was a above average player. Guys with a .781 career OPS do not grow on trees. His problem was he didn't play enough. If you have a good 4th OF, that matters little.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 20:19 pm
Melville wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 19:00 pm"You don't need WAR"icon wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 18:54 pmYou don't need WAR to say TO had a good year in 2021 with 34 dingers and GG defense. He was really good that year, but he could only do it once.Melville wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 18:50 pmWhich yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 17:39 pmDon't confuse them with facts!JDW wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:56 pm2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.kscardsfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:37 pm Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.
The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR
Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of
Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.
Absolutely correct.
It is a fiction.
WAR = imagine if?...... it's no different than when a player gets thrown out stealing, and then the hitter 2 batters later hits a solo homerun. You always here some say "that caught steeling cost them a run".
Yea. Imagine IF.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 21:05 pm
Like Melville, you use general statements without proof. Just words.Goldfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 20:17 pmOverall performance???? What does a 3.2 tell you???ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 20:07 pmFor someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.Melville wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 18:50 pmWhich yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 17:39 pmDon't confuse them with facts!JDW wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:56 pm2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.kscardsfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:37 pm Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.
The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR
Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of
Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…
Winn has rather respectable WAR…..and it’s mostly his defense…..it tells you nothing. You still need to look at an offensive stat line
If I’m wrong, please just tell me how WAR is calculated. I’ll wait..
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 21:25 pm
A statistic is a defined numeric data point.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 20:07 pmFor someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.Melville wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 18:50 pmWhich yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 17:39 pmDon't confuse them with facts!JDW wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:56 pm2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.kscardsfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:37 pm Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.
The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR
Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of
Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…
By definition, WAR is an estimate.
Words have meanings.
WAR, being an ESTIMATE cannot be a STATISTIC.
A STATISTIC, being a numeric value, cannot be an ESTIMATE.
Not hard, really.
WAR is a fictional invention - as openly admitted by the originators.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 22:10 pm
Again tell me what 3.2 represents??ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 21:05 pmLike Melville, you use general statements without proof. Just words.Goldfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 20:17 pmOverall performance???? What does a 3.2 tell you???ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 20:07 pmFor someone who thinks they are smart, you are awfully ignorant.Melville wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 18:50 pmWhich yet again displays the idiocy of WAR.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 17:39 pmDon't confuse them with facts!JDW wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:56 pm2021 did happen. Cards had a productive OF that year, just saying.kscardsfan wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 15:37 pm Tyler was closest to being a good player. Carlson a huge waste of talent. Bader was just plain awful as a hitter. ( 2013) since we have had a good hitting outfield. That's too long to keep banking on young prospects.
The Cards OF in 2021 had the highest OF bWAR in baseball with 14.2 WAR vs Houston's 12.5. Most of the ABs were "the trio that went south."
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... B&stat=WAR
Fangraphs fWAR had that OF #4, but almost all the positive WAR was from that trio. https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major ... [ositively] O[bnoxious] S[impleton]=of
Like others since, the longer they stay with the club the worse they perform. Odd.
Please explain why it’s not a stat.
Which stat is better for overall performance.
I’ll wait…
Winn has rather respectable WAR…..and it’s mostly his defense…..it tells you nothing. You still need to look at an offensive stat line
If I’m wrong, please just tell me how WAR is calculated. I’ll wait..
Can you tell me the players BA, HR, RBI, R, OBP, OPS……all those hitting stats maybe terrible BUT the player maybe a great base runner and fielder
Who knows……
And Mel nailed it above……stats are actual events produced on the field of play. WAR is assumptions and estimates
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 22:35 pm
SMH
The things the board has resorted to arguing over....Its gonna be a long week with no baseball.
The things the board has resorted to arguing over....Its gonna be a long week with no baseball.
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 22:42 pm
WAR is an estimate, but based on many statistics. I've used it for the best estimate of a player's overall value.
Not just hitting. Also defense and baserunning. Add adjustments for the venue and position.
What do you guys, Melville and Goldfan, think is the best statistic (or more) you guys argue that gives the best estimate of a total player worth, since that is what we are looking for when comparing players?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/abou ... tion.shtml
WAR for position players has six components: Batting Runs, Baserunning Runs, Runs added or lost due to Grounding into Double Plays, Fielding Runs, Positional Adjustment Runs, Replacement level Runs (based on playing time).
All are based on calculations. EX: Baserunning: Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing, and Non-Basestealing baserunning which includes items like 1st to 3rd on singles, outs on the bases, tagging up on fly balls, scoring from third on a ground ball, etc.
Show me yours...
Not just hitting. Also defense and baserunning. Add adjustments for the venue and position.
What do you guys, Melville and Goldfan, think is the best statistic (or more) you guys argue that gives the best estimate of a total player worth, since that is what we are looking for when comparing players?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/abou ... tion.shtml
WAR for position players has six components: Batting Runs, Baserunning Runs, Runs added or lost due to Grounding into Double Plays, Fielding Runs, Positional Adjustment Runs, Replacement level Runs (based on playing time).
All are based on calculations. EX: Baserunning: Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing, and Non-Basestealing baserunning which includes items like 1st to 3rd on singles, outs on the bases, tagging up on fly balls, scoring from third on a ground ball, etc.
Show me yours...
Re: T. O Neil update
Posted: 14 Jul 2025 22:55 pm
Maybe tomorrow.ClassicO wrote: ↑14 Jul 2025 22:42 pm WAR is an estimate, but based on many statistics. I've used it for the best estimate of a player's overall value.
Not just hitting. Also defense and baserunning. Add adjustments for the venue and position.
What do you guys, Melville and Goldfan, think is the best statistic (or more) you guys argue that gives the best estimate of a total player worth, since that is what we are looking for when comparing players?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/abou ... tion.shtml
WAR for position players has six components: Batting Runs, Baserunning Runs, Runs added or lost due to Grounding into Double Plays, Fielding Runs, Positional Adjustment Runs, Replacement level Runs (based on playing time).
All are based on calculations. EX: Baserunning: Stolen Bases and Caught Stealing, and Non-Basestealing baserunning which includes items like 1st to 3rd on singles, outs on the bases, tagging up on fly balls, scoring from third on a ground ball, etc.
Show me yours...
I have a reputation for being long.