Monty Talks New Players & First Full Season

[somni]

Wow. I'm so excited and happy. I never saw it from this angle. I "push" Army, and Army loves me for it. Thanks, Army.

My only question is...
Who is going to "push ASOGG to be better"? All I get is food talk babble back at me.

I'm pushing you to be better. You get and will get a lot of insults for awhile either way. but if you change it up, people will genuinely appreciate it.

you yourself know. I mean it's incongruous for you to perceive Carbonneau as a possible star and do the whole top 5 shtick. especially when I first told you about him – I put in the context of what if we drafted a Holloway caliber player in round 1 even if out of the top 5 and used Carbonneau as an example. now you see it with your own eyes. I will also tell you that the 2023 draft was so deep that all the way into the middle of the second it was stocked with first round talent, and we got three of those players and we overdraft our first round position often. The third and fourth rounders that year (Burns, Pekarcik, Stancl) were better than average mid rounders. there is some legit quality on its way here.

You aren't wrong that top talent is needed to win in sports. But we aren't wrong that it's better to win NHL games and then overperform your first round picks than to lose as many as possible so you can covet the idea of a savior player. IMO it's the beauty of the sport - it's the toughest trophy to win because it's a group effort. When people endlessly argue who was more important to the team's success it's always grounded in the knowledge that you need a lot of quality components in key positions and skillsets to do anything glorious. You've got a toolset to improve your team which is signings, trades and draft picks, there are multiple routes to assembling a contender caliber team.

I also think the next Blues star is right under your nose and his name is Dalibor Dvorsky. Thomas-Dvorsky ... this is going to be an elite duo for a few contending years. Dvorsky has a better shot and is more physical, he has a genuine strong chance to be overall as good as Thomas became at the end of this last season. Thomas-Dvorsky as a 1-2 center combo will make the Blues legit. It will take 20 year old Dvorsky til he's probably 22/23 before his game is opening its early peak period. It will be a slow burn with some flashes ... he will be a contributing top 9 forward at first, and then it will all be there and the Blues will win a ton of regular season games as that leveling up occurs. When your third line suddenly starts producing at a first line pace because your young blue chip center is turning on the jets and playing well defensively is when you're suddenly sitting atop the division standings and looking legit up front.

So a lot actually does depend on what Mailloux is going to become. We aren't sure right now, there is a range of possibility. If you look by position and the youth in the org (bolded players have "made" the roster():

LW - Holloway (2020, 14th), Neighbours (2020, 26th), Stenberg (2023, 25th), Stancl (2023, 106th), Pekarcik (2023, 76th)
C - Dvorsky (2023, 10th), Dean (2021, 32d), Kaskimaki (2022, 73d), Korotky (2024, 211th I see you MN)
RW - Snuggerud (2022, 23d), Carbonneau (2025, 19th)
LHD - Broberg (2019, 8th), Lindstein (2023, 29th), Burns (2023, 74th), Fischer (2024, 56th), Ralph (2024, 48th)
RHD - Mailloux (2021, 31st), Jiricek (2024, 16th)

I'm not listing a swath of others who as of now would need a big leap to be an impact NHL player

Wow. Discussion. This may help me. We'll see....

First, I have never said that the Blues should purposefully lose games to gain a TOP5 pick. I've never even thought that. For the sake of "getting better", let's not put words in other's mouths.

The Blues should obtain their TOP5 picks the way every other NHL team has done it. How exactly? Instead of bringing in the Fowler's and the Faksa's, they should promote their PROSPECTS--Sink or Swim. Fowler and Faksa will be LONG RETIRED when the Blues return to the CUP. To add temporary veterans like serves only 1 purpose: Win a few more games in the current year--spoiling our draft position. He utilizes hungry veterans willing to die to earn a few more bucks before they hang up the skates.

So let's discuss this point...

Should the Blues play their prospects or bring in short-term veteran rentals with very minimal remaining years? This ONE DECISION by Army/Blues is the biggest reason why the Blues will never get a TOP5 pick IMO.

Let's now see if we all get better from pushing the discussion a bit further than the typical mantra... "ASOGG wants us to TANK".

"First, I have never said that the Blues should purposefully lose games to gain a TOP5 pick. I've never even thought that. For the sake of "getting better", let's not put words in other's mouths."...STOP RIGHT THERE!

The heck you haven't!! Countless times in countless threads you have sent that "don't try so you can draft top 5" message in so many words, too many words. AND you constantly twist the narrative and purposely misinterpret other people's message, with typically something akin to, "So what you are saying is...blah, blah, blah."
Zip it up.

Prove it, OLD GOAT. I've never ever said those words. Not ever. Not once. I challenge you to find me saying those words.

What I have said from the beginning... "Almost every team has at least 1 TOP5 pick. The Blues should do what those teams have done." Do you think teams "throw games on purpose"? I don't think that.

Was it always top 5...thought at one point it was top 10. LOL

Anyway, Brayden Schenn was drafted #5. Not sure why that constantly gets forgotten.

[Old_Goat]

Wow. I'm so excited and happy. I never saw it from this angle. I "push" Army, and Army loves me for it. Thanks, Army.

My only question is...
Who is going to "push ASOGG to be better"? All I get is food talk babble back at me.

I'm pushing you to be better. You get and will get a lot of insults for awhile either way. but if you change it up, people will genuinely appreciate it.

you yourself know. I mean it's incongruous for you to perceive Carbonneau as a possible star and do the whole top 5 shtick. especially when I first told you about him – I put in the context of what if we drafted a Holloway caliber player in round 1 even if out of the top 5 and used Carbonneau as an example. now you see it with your own eyes. I will also tell you that the 2023 draft was so deep that all the way into the middle of the second it was stocked with first round talent, and we got three of those players and we overdraft our first round position often. The third and fourth rounders that year (Burns, Pekarcik, Stancl) were better than average mid rounders. there is some legit quality on its way here.

You aren't wrong that top talent is needed to win in sports. But we aren't wrong that it's better to win NHL games and then overperform your first round picks than to lose as many as possible so you can covet the idea of a savior player. IMO it's the beauty of the sport - it's the toughest trophy to win because it's a group effort. When people endlessly argue who was more important to the team's success it's always grounded in the knowledge that you need a lot of quality components in key positions and skillsets to do anything glorious. You've got a toolset to improve your team which is signings, trades and draft picks, there are multiple routes to assembling a contender caliber team.

I also think the next Blues star is right under your nose and his name is Dalibor Dvorsky. Thomas-Dvorsky ... this is going to be an elite duo for a few contending years. Dvorsky has a better shot and is more physical, he has a genuine strong chance to be overall as good as Thomas became at the end of this last season. Thomas-Dvorsky as a 1-2 center combo will make the Blues legit. It will take 20 year old Dvorsky til he's probably 22/23 before his game is opening its early peak period. It will be a slow burn with some flashes ... he will be a contributing top 9 forward at first, and then it will all be there and the Blues will win a ton of regular season games as that leveling up occurs. When your third line suddenly starts producing at a first line pace because your young blue chip center is turning on the jets and playing well defensively is when you're suddenly sitting atop the division standings and looking legit up front.

So a lot actually does depend on what Mailloux is going to become. We aren't sure right now, there is a range of possibility. If you look by position and the youth in the org (bolded players have "made" the roster():

LW - Holloway (2020, 14th), Neighbours (2020, 26th), Stenberg (2023, 25th), Stancl (2023, 106th), Pekarcik (2023, 76th)
C - Dvorsky (2023, 10th), Dean (2021, 32d), Kaskimaki (2022, 73d), Korotky (2024, 211th I see you MN)
RW - Snuggerud (2022, 23d), Carbonneau (2025, 19th)
LHD - Broberg (2019, 8th), Lindstein (2023, 29th), Burns (2023, 74th), Fischer (2024, 56th), Ralph (2024, 48th)
RHD - Mailloux (2021, 31st), Jiricek (2024, 16th)

I'm not listing a swath of others who as of now would need a big leap to be an impact NHL player

Wow. Discussion. This may help me. We'll see....

First, I have never said that the Blues should purposefully lose games to gain a TOP5 pick. I've never even thought that. For the sake of "getting better", let's not put words in other's mouths.

The Blues should obtain their TOP5 picks the way every other NHL team has done it. How exactly? Instead of bringing in the Fowler's and the Faksa's, they should promote their PROSPECTS--Sink or Swim. Fowler and Faksa will be LONG RETIRED when the Blues return to the CUP. To add temporary veterans like serves only 1 purpose: Win a few more games in the current year--spoiling our draft position. He utilizes hungry veterans willing to die to earn a few more bucks before they hang up the skates.

So let's discuss this point...

Should the Blues play their prospects or bring in short-term veteran rentals with very minimal remaining years? This ONE DECISION by Army/Blues is the biggest reason why the Blues will never get a TOP5 pick IMO.

Let's now see if we all get better from pushing the discussion a bit further than the typical mantra... "ASOGG wants us to TANK".

"First, I have never said that the Blues should purposefully lose games to gain a TOP5 pick. I've never even thought that. For the sake of "getting better", let's not put words in other's mouths."...STOP RIGHT THERE!

The heck you haven't!! Countless times in countless threads you have sent that "don't try so you can draft top 5" message in so many words, too many words. AND you constantly twist the narrative and purposely misinterpret other people's message, with typically something akin to, "So what you are saying is...blah, blah, blah."
Zip it up.

Prove it, OLD GOAT. I've never ever said those words. Not ever. Not once. I challenge you to find me saying those words.

What I have said from the beginning... "Almost every team has at least 1 TOP5 pick. The Blues should do what those teams have done." Do you think teams "throw games on purpose"? I don't think that.

Yeah you have. I don't have to prove anything to you.
You are desperate for attention. You have already received more attention than you deserve.
Shut up.

[a smell of green grass]

Peca is essentially one year younger than Bjugstad. Currently they are both 32.

Excellent point. Now we are getting somewhere....

Why did the Blues bring in Faksa, when we have Peca, Dean and others?
Why did the Blues bring in Bjugstad, when we have Peca, Dean and others?

For sure, we will win A FEW MORE GAMES in the current year because cagey veterans make fewer mistakes. AHL Springfield will also win a few more games.

However, are there any other reasons why the Blues would do this?

[a smell of green grass]

Shut up.

Just put me on ignore. I need you like I need a clog in my pipes.

[wiscrev]

Smellie getting his "attention w&*^%$re" fix early.

[seattleblue]

It's funny that it doesn't realize moving out vets and playing kids is exactly how you tank

It's funny that THEY don't realize that playing kids is how we found Binnington, and how we won a CUP.

Tanking is purposefully losing games. Playing prospects is not letting 3 easy goals in.

Binnington first made the NHL in his D+8 season! ... and was a 3d round pick!

So ... the Blues would have won the Cup faster if instead of winning the most regular season games in the West in the 2010s they had played Ty Rattie and Jordan Schmaltz in front of a young Binner? No, they wouldn't.

Winning culture is not nothing. Seriously look at the London Knights in junior. They are a perennial force. What do they do every year, pick the exact magic kids? No they have a culture and a way of doing things that leads to success. They develop their players the right way, it's the only way to gain ice time. Look at how many players from London are in the NHL. Look at how teams draft from there.

Moreover, free agency is completely undermined if you go your route, and so are trades because you're so thin on the ice with talent the players you have to trade to get quality back are your best on ice players. Players quite obviously take awhile to ramp up, that is obviously something everyone knows and sees. If you throw them into the fire before they're ready they lose confidence. And you are way, way, way undervaluing confidence in sports by undervaluing trying to compete on the ice.

[a smell of green grass]

Not blaming anyone, but trying to have a reasonable discussion here is impossible. It's just a waste of time on everyone's part.

I'll post my thoughts, and I will always encourage others to do the same. Maybe we can meet in the middle sometime, somewhere. Who knows? Till then, cheers.

[2forDiving]

Peca is essentially one year younger than Bjugstad. Currently they are both 32.

Excellent point. Now we are getting somewhere....

Why did the Blues bring in Faksa, when we have Peca, Dean and others?
Why did the Blues bring in Bjugstad, when we have Peca, Dean and others?

For sure, we will win A FEW MORE GAMES in the current year because cagey veterans make fewer mistakes. AHL Springfield will also win a few more games.

However, are there any other reasons why the Blues would do this?

I’m not sure I see your point. Are you inferring that a 32 y.o. 6’5” player with 760 NHL games is no better than a 5’9” 31 y.o. with barely a season’s worth of NHL games? Peca is at Springfield to help them be competitive and to help develop the influx of Blues prospects. Bjugstad is in St. Louis to help them win games.

Both Dean and Alexandrov missed large chunks of last season due to injury. It is not unreasonable to want to see how they do with a full or half slate of AHL games before handing them an NHL roster spot with with no back up plan.

[seattleblue]

Not blaming anyone, but trying to have a reasonable discussion here is impossible. It's just a waste of time on everyone's part.

I'll post my thoughts, and I will always encourage others to do the same. Maybe we can meet in the middle sometime, somewhere. Who knows? Till then, cheers.

this is a copout in light of my reasoned reply to your own argument which said just play Binnington.

I don't think I've seen you ever reasonably respond when you are pinned back by your own logic. you can't meet someone else's best argument head on. you just pretend it didn't happen because it's either too uncomfortable to have the "discussion" you say you want or because it's not in good faith. most people suspect it's the latter but it's possible it's both.

[Harry S Deals]

If you told me next season:

Bolduc 72 GP 25 goals 50 pts +20 18:00 ATOI
Mailloux 72 GP 8 goals 30 pts -5 150 Hits 5 Fights 15:00 ATOI

Im still taking Mailloux all day long and i pretty pumped about his future

[a smell of green grass]

Peca is essentially one year younger than Bjugstad. Currently they are both 32.

Excellent point. Now we are getting somewhere....

Why did the Blues bring in Faksa, when we have Peca, Dean and others?
Why did the Blues bring in Bjugstad, when we have Peca, Dean and others?

For sure, we will win A FEW MORE GAMES in the current year because cagey veterans make fewer mistakes. AHL Springfield will also win a few more games.

However, are there any other reasons why the Blues would do this?

I’m not sure I see your point. Are you inferring that a 32 y.o. 6’5” player with 760 NHL games is no better than a 5’9” 31 y.o. with barely a season’s worth of NHL games? Peca is at Springfield to help them be competitive and to help develop the influx of Blues prospects. Bjugstad is in St. Louis to help them win games.

Both Dean and Alexandrov missed large chunks of last season due to injury. It is not unreasonable to want to see how they do with a full or half slate of AHL games before handing them an NHL roster spot with with no back up plan.

An Army Mom will tell you that everybody in Springfield is injured, so of course Bjugstad had to be brought in.

A Hockey Man would wonder how there is not a single Center in Springfield to call up for next season.

[a smell of green grass]

If you told me next season:

Bolduc 72 GP 25 goals 50 pts +20 18:00 ATOI
Mailloux 72 GP 8 goals 30 pts -5 150 Hits 5 Fights 15:00 ATOI

Im still taking Mailloux all day long and i pretty pumped about his future

If you told me that Jiricek was going to be ANYTHING CLOSE to what Army projected for him 1 year ago, I would be pretty pumped.

If Mailloux is so great, why did he not make the NHL team in Montreal? Maybe Mailloux will work out. But maybe not. See Jiricek if you need to see a firecracker dud in action.

[b-a-a-a-rclay]

If you told me next season:

Bolduc 72 GP 25 goals 50 pts +20 18:00 ATOI
Mailloux 72 GP 8 goals 30 pts -5 150 Hits 5 Fights 15:00 ATOI

Im still taking Mailloux all day long and i pretty pumped about his future

If you told me that Jiricek was going to be ANYTHING CLOSE to what Army projected for him 1 year ago, I would be pretty pumped.

If Mailloux is so great, why did he not make the NHL team in Montreal? Maybe Mailloux will work out. But maybe not. See Jiricek if you need to see a firecracker dud in action.

By your logic Mailloux didn't get to play because the GM in montreal is stupid and doesn't understand how to build a winning team. Mailloux is a 2 time AHL All Star. By your logic, there is no scenario, no circumstance where a player with more experience should be blocking him. And by your logic, Mailloux proved that he was ready for the NHL regardless of where he was in his development by performing well in the AHL a full year ago. Developing players is a lot more than "Hey, he played well. He showed some promise. Get him up here now!"
I apologize for the tone, but you seem like you should be able to understand that these NHL front office people often have more information than you or I from several sources regarding where players are in their development.
Teams that tank (end up bottom 5) due to playing young players down the stretch who aren't ready, ultimately create a loser mentality and often hurt those young players in the long run.

[a smell of green grass]

If you told me next season:

Bolduc 72 GP 25 goals 50 pts +20 18:00 ATOI
Mailloux 72 GP 8 goals 30 pts -5 150 Hits 5 Fights 15:00 ATOI

Im still taking Mailloux all day long and i pretty pumped about his future

If you told me that Jiricek was going to be ANYTHING CLOSE to what Army projected for him 1 year ago, I would be pretty pumped.

If Mailloux is so great, why did he not make the NHL team in Montreal? Maybe Mailloux will work out. But maybe not. See Jiricek if you need to see a firecracker dud in action.

By your logic Mailloux didn't get to play because the GM in montreal is stupid and doesn't understand how to build a winning team. Mailloux is a 2 time AHL All Star. By your logic, there is no scenario, no circumstance where a player with more experience should be blocking him. And by your logic, Mailloux proved that he was ready for the NHL regardless of where he was in his development by performing well in the AHL a full year ago. Developing players is a lot more than "Hey, he played well. He showed some promise. Get him up here now!"
I apologize for the tone, but you seem like you should be able to understand that these NHL front office people often have more information than you or I from several sources regarding where players are in their development.
Teams that tank (end up bottom 5) due to playing young players down the stretch who aren't ready, ultimately create a loser mentality and often hurt those young players in the long run.

And then we have the Blues situation...

Their highest-paid veterans didn't SCORE in the playoffs.
Their highest-paid veterans didn't HIT in the playoffs.
Their highest-paid veterans disappeared in the playoffs.
Their highest-paid veterans made the BIGGEST F____ BLUNDERS in Blues History.

Meanwhile, the WTF line scored, and the "F" is now gone.
Meanwhile, Bolduc was a hit machine, and Bolduc is now gone.

The GOOD LESSONS LEARNED MENTALITY has walked out the door.
The BAD LESSONS LEARNED MENTALITY is under contract for 6-8 more years.

Summary:
I'm a lot more worried about the highest-paid players creating a loser-mentality than I am about the rookies creating it.

[DawgDad]

If you told me next season:

Bolduc 72 GP 25 goals 50 pts +20 18:00 ATOI
Mailloux 72 GP 8 goals 30 pts -5 150 Hits 5 Fights 15:00 ATOI

Im still taking Mailloux all day long and i pretty pumped about his future

If you told me that Jiricek was going to be ANYTHING CLOSE to what Army projected for him 1 year ago, I would be pretty pumped.

If Mailloux is so great, why did he not make the NHL team in Montreal? Maybe Mailloux will work out. But maybe not. See Jiricek if you need to see a firecracker dud in action.

By your logic Mailloux didn't get to play because the GM in montreal is stupid and doesn't understand how to build a winning team. Mailloux is a 2 time AHL All Star. By your logic, there is no scenario, no circumstance where a player with more experience should be blocking him. And by your logic, Mailloux proved that he was ready for the NHL regardless of where he was in his development by performing well in the AHL a full year ago. Developing players is a lot more than "Hey, he played well. He showed some promise. Get him up here now!"
I apologize for the tone, but you seem like you should be able to understand that these NHL front office people often have more information than you or I from several sources regarding where players are in their development.
Teams that tank (end up bottom 5) due to playing young players down the stretch who aren't ready, ultimately create a loser mentality and often hurt those young players in the long run.

And then we have the Blues situation...

Their highest-paid veterans didn't SCORE in the playoffs.
Their highest-paid veterans didn't HIT in the playoffs.
Their highest-paid veterans disappeared in the playoffs.
Their highest-paid veterans made the BIGGEST F____ BLUNDERS in Blues History.

Meanwhile, the WTF line scored, and the "F" is now gone.
Meanwhile, Bolduc was a hit machine, and Bolduc is now gone.

The GOOD LESSONS LEARNED MENTALITY has walked out the door.
The BAD LESSONS LEARNED MENTALITY is under contract for 6-8 more years.

Summary:
I'm a lot more worried about the highest-paid players creating a loser-mentality than I am about the rookies creating it.

Sniff sniff. I smell crab grass.

[b-a-a-a-rclay]

Blues top 3 scorers vs the Jets ... Cam Fowler 10 pts, Buch 8 pts, Thomas 8 pts.
3 players tied for team lead with 3 goals ... Kyrou, Walker, Buchnevich.