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Cranny wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:53 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:46 pm While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

Add the carryover effect from Covid. People got used to staying home and watching things on TV or their computervthat they used to go to in person.

dugoutrex wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:32 pm Oli > Mikey

OldRed wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:32 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:53 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:46 pm While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

Add the carryover effect from Covid. People got used to staying home and watching things on TV or their computervthat they used to go to in person.

That is not true. They drew 3.3 million after Covid, followed 3.2 million in 2023 and 2.9 million in 2024. I believe it has to do more winning, not being told the truth by management and not showing interest in improving the last winter.

woofy25 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:22 pm

NorthernBird wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:56 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:41 pm

ForumPolice wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:38 pm They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Fans would rather stay home b/c of Oli than watch their team play .600 baseball at home? Maybe it's starting to be the fans.

This is a stupid post. You can't ever blame a fan for lack of interest in a team. You blame an organization for losing that rabid interest and then failing to capture it back.

There have been many contributing factors, of which Oli is one, but not the only:
- Public pronouncement regarding a "reset", cutting spending/investment in on-field roster, letting big name players leave while only bringing in a FA reliever
- Lack of certainty whether this "600" ball club will be invested in for a playoff run this year, or dismantled at the deadline for investment in their future
- Lack of future direction/certainty regarding management: Mo is leaving, what does Bloom takeover look like? Who will be in charge on the field and in the FO?
- Oli inspires a lack of faith from the outside observer. Has been combative with the league and players, shown poor roster construction, and made numerous poor in game decisions (notably costing the team in the postseason)

I used to watch every game and coming out of COVID was very energized to see baseball again. These past three years (and quite frankly the past 15 years of decision post TLR) have systematically disinterested me. I now prefer to focus on my family, hobbies and work than sit down to watch a baseball game.

Stupid post? Ouchie. The Cardinals have been their own worst enemy, no doubt. But to say you can't ever blame the fans is non-sensical. Why are you so adamant about absolving them? Because you are one, I suppose. The problem is most of your points here are silly. There is plenty to criticize about the organization, but you, unfortunately, haven't made many coherent criticisms to explain why people shouldn't start going to games since the team is winning, and winning at a .600 clip at home.

- What big name players did the Cardinals let leave who you wanted to keep? Did you really want Goldschmidt back or something? Are you clamoring for the days of Jason Heyward or still bummed about not re-signing Pujols? Who are these big names?
-So, because you don't know what's going to happen at the trade deadline, you're not going to the ballpark? Nobody ever knows what's going to happen at the deadline. Should the stadium just be completely empty until August?
-And because you don't know what the team is going to look like next season, you're not going to games this season? You want Oli gone and Mo leaving increases the chances of that, but b/c you don't know who Oli's replacement might be in 2026, fans like yourself should stay home in 2025? Does that really make any sense to you?
-Oli doesn't construct the roster. How do you not know that? He has been combative in the past. Seems like there haven't been many player related issues this season like there have been in the past with O'Neill and Contreras. What Manager could the Cardinals hire that would inspire you to go to a game, and why does the manager have so much influence over your attendance in the first place?
-You've been so disinterested since 2012 that you actively post on an internet forum about the Cardinals in 2025. Yeah, you're apathy is glaring. BTW, they went to the playoffs in 8 of those 13 years, possibly 9 of 14.

Look, I've been a big critic of this organization recently. But, the fact is they're currently surprising most and are playing good baseball. Fans should start showing up because of it. You shouldn't go to a game or stay home b/c of the POBO or Manager. Go because the team is playing fundamentally sound baseball and winning games. They're not winning b/c of a couple superstars. They're winning because they play as a team. Maybe it falls apart, but it's currently working and fans should start going again. Quit the bellyaching about Mo. He's gone in 3 months.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 14:00 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 13:22 pm

NorthernBird wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:56 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:41 pm

ForumPolice wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:38 pm They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Fans would rather stay home b/c of Oli than watch their team play .600 baseball at home? Maybe it's starting to be the fans.

This is a stupid post. You can't ever blame a fan for lack of interest in a team. You blame an organization for losing that rabid interest and then failing to capture it back.

There have been many contributing factors, of which Oli is one, but not the only:
- Public pronouncement regarding a "reset", cutting spending/investment in on-field roster, letting big name players leave while only bringing in a FA reliever
- Lack of certainty whether this "600" ball club will be invested in for a playoff run this year, or dismantled at the deadline for investment in their future
- Lack of future direction/certainty regarding management: Mo is leaving, what does Bloom takeover look like? Who will be in charge on the field and in the FO?
- Oli inspires a lack of faith from the outside observer. Has been combative with the league and players, shown poor roster construction, and made numerous poor in game decisions (notably costing the team in the postseason)

I used to watch every game and coming out of COVID was very energized to see baseball again. These past three years (and quite frankly the past 15 years of decision post TLR) have systematically disinterested me. I now prefer to focus on my family, hobbies and work than sit down to watch a baseball game.

Stupid post? Ouchie. The Cardinals have been their own worst enemy, no doubt. But to say you can't ever blame the fans is non-sensical. Why are you so adamant about absolving them? Because you are one, I suppose. The problem is most of your points here are silly. There is plenty to criticize about the organization, but you, unfortunately, haven't made many coherent criticisms to explain why people shouldn't start going to games since the team is winning, and winning at a .600 clip at home.

- What big name players did the Cardinals let leave who you wanted to keep? Did you really want Goldschmidt back or something? Are you clamoring for the days of Jason Heyward or still bummed about not re-signing Pujols? Who are these big names?
-So, because you don't know what's going to happen at the trade deadline, you're not going to the ballpark? Nobody ever knows what's going to happen at the deadline. Should the stadium just be completely empty until August?
-And because you don't know what the team is going to look like next season, you're not going to games this season? You want Oli gone and Mo leaving increases the chances of that, but b/c you don't know who Oli's replacement might be in 2026, fans like yourself should stay home in 2025? Does that really make any sense to you?
-Oli doesn't construct the roster. How do you not know that? He has been combative in the past. Seems like there haven't been many player related issues this season like there have been in the past with O'Neill and Contreras. What Manager could the Cardinals hire that would inspire you to go to a game, and why does the manager have so much influence over your attendance in the first place?
-You've been so disinterested since 2012 that you actively post on an internet forum about the Cardinals in 2025. Yeah, you're apathy is glaring. BTW, they went to the playoffs in 8 of those 13 years, possibly 9 of 14.

Look, I've been a big critic of this organization recently. But, the fact is they're currently surprising most and are playing good baseball. Fans should start showing up because of it. You shouldn't go to a game or stay home b/c of the POBO or Manager. Go because the team is playing fundamentally sound baseball and winning games. They're not winning b/c of a couple superstars. They're winning because they play as a team. Maybe it falls apart, but it's currently working and fans should start going again. Quit the bellyaching about Mo. He's gone in 3 months.

How about you spend your discretionary income how you want to spend it, and shut the hell up about how others should spend their discretionary income?

ForumPolice wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:38 pm They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

ForumPolice wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:38 pm They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 16:04 pm

ForumPolice wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:38 pm They were talking on ESPN 101 last week about the causes of poor attendance even when the team was showing signs of life. They went through weather, lack of discretionary funds, lack of stars, etc. Towards the end of the discussion they brought up Marmol/Mo and felt that while fans may blame Mo, they said Oli wasn't the reason fans have soured on the team.

I could not disagree more with that thought. My enthusiasm level has dropped significantly during the Marmol era. Giving him the job in the first place was ridiculous but extending him after a horrible, losing season to me made this organization look like a non serious joke. When your team is lacking Stars having a big league level manager in the dugout at least gives the appearance of having an adult in charge.

Oli is a clown that should not have gotten the job and most certainly shouldn't have kept the job after his repeated fumblings. Step one and drawing fans back to the park is getting a known commodity in the dugout.

Oli is a symptom. Mo is the disease.

hullie wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:50 pm Oli is doing fine. I know that upsets 75% of this forum.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 16:47 pm I really believe that by choosing to keep Mo around for another year they chose to forego a few hundred thousand in attendance, because folks are going to have a hard time believing anything will really change until he's gone. After the winter they had, it's tough to blame them.

What remains to be seen is what this all looks like in 2026. But I genuinely believe ownership knew they were going to take a hit this year, weighed out the loss versus their loyalty to Mo, and chose Mo.

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:46 pm While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 17:04 pm

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑30 Jun 2025 12:46 pm While I'm not a fan of Marmol, I don't think he's a major reason for the drop in attendance. I think it's a combination of things including:

1. Cost
2. Loss of baseball's popularity.
3. Concerns of safety at night in StL.
4. Apathy towards BDW and Mo.

Marmol may come in 5th in the equation.

Is the ballpark that much more expensive or dangerous than it was five years ago, when attendance was through the roof? I don't think so. I think there have always been a whole bunch of good reasons to not want to go to downtown St. Louis in the middle of summer.

It seems to me that what's new is the hostility that has erupted between the FO and the fanbase, which is at a level I've never seen before. No one here has, I bet.