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I’m surprised that they didn’t skip a start or at least give an extra day or two.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 12:17 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 11:05 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 09:55 am Didn’t he get pulled from last start because of injury? I remember his replacement “got all the time he needed”….

Nope

"Fatigue"

I think he's going thru a "dead arm" stage, he could get back to his early season dominate self soon........hopefully today!

Interesting. He has been getting 5 days off between starts all season.

But remember they didn't switch him to the rotation until late in spring training, he only got one spring start.

Couple that w/only six starts in 2024 and it makes some sense he could have a bit of a "dead arm" about now.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 11:02 am

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 11:01 am Libby pitched 86 innings last year mostly an inning or two at a time. He’s a couple starts away from that total now. This shouldn’t have been hard to see coming, but the Cardinals apparently had no plan for load management.

He pitched 126 innings in 2023 and almost 150 in 2022 and 124 in 2021. Does the arm change that much after one season when it was built up for years?

Wainwright is the only Cardinal I can think of - there may be more - but Wainwright had better stuff than Liberatore and Liberatore was rushed. He had no business being in St Louis at 22 other than Mozeliak wanting to show something for trading away Arozarena. ERA over 5 in Memphis what did he expect would happen in St Louis? First 2 starts in May at age 22 under Marmol he averaged 90 pitcher per start. Back in St Louis at 23 and split time between the bullpen and starting. Then gave up on him being a starter and spend age 24 in the bullpen. Now back to starter.

How not to develop a first round starting pitcher prospect.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 12:26 pm I’m surprised that they didn’t skip a start or at least give an extra day or two.

Prepping for blame.

Infantilization continues…

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 12:17 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 11:05 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 09:55 am Didn’t he get pulled from last start because of injury? I remember his replacement “got all the time he needed”….

Nope

"Fatigue"

I think he's going thru a "dead arm" stage, he could get back to his early season dominate self soon........hopefully today!

Interesting. He has been getting 5 days off between starts all season.

Again, he only pitched 80ish innings last year, all in short bursts. Starting every 5th day is different

He was best in the pen. The longer he’s out there the more he’s exposed.

5 runs allowed already today

He's got no life on his pitches the last three starts, dude got a dead arm and needs to skip a start.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 14:31 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 12:17 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 11:05 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 09:55 am Didn’t he get pulled from last start because of injury? I remember his replacement “got all the time he needed”….

Nope

"Fatigue"

I think he's going thru a "dead arm" stage, he could get back to his early season dominate self soon........hopefully today!

Interesting. He has been getting 5 days off between starts all season.

Again, he only pitched 80ish innings last year, all in short bursts. Starting every 5th day is different

Yea he's pitched almost as many innings before the all star break as he pitched all of last season and like you said starting every fifth day is a lot different than starting sporadically and coming out of the bullpen

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 14:42 pm 5 runs allowed already today

He's got no life on his pitches the last three starts, dude got a dead arm and needs to skip a start.

Agree
Skip at least one start.
McGreevy already up.

JohnnyMO wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 14:31 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 12:17 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 11:05 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 09:55 am Didn’t he get pulled from last start because of injury? I remember his replacement “got all the time he needed”….

Nope

"Fatigue"

I think he's going thru a "dead arm" stage, he could get back to his early season dominate self soon........hopefully today!

Interesting. He has been getting 5 days off between starts all season.

Again, he only pitched 80ish innings last year, all in short bursts. Starting every 5th day is different

Exactly. I suspect Bloom had a different opinion of him and wants him to start. At his age he could still become a solid starter if he stays healthy.

Cusecards wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 14:54 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 14:42 pm 5 runs allowed already today

He's got no life on his pitches the last three starts, dude got a dead arm and needs to skip a start.

Agree
Skip at least one start.
McGreevy already up.

I'm surprised he pitched today if he left his last start due to fatigue and loss of velocity. Must not have anybody at AAA.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 15:28 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 14:54 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 14:42 pm 5 runs allowed already today

He's got no life on his pitches the last three starts, dude got a dead arm and needs to skip a start.

Agree
Skip at least one start.
McGreevy already up.

I'm surprised he pitched today if he left his last start due to fatigue and loss of velocity. Must not have anybody at AAA.

Just doesn’t have the same life on his pitches.
He has been going fairly deep in all his starts. Could be the workload and needs a break?
Give him one.

Brandon Kiley reported he was 91-92 today. Saw a couple of posts from the Ninja with an 81 MPH breaker and 89 MPH cutter for Ks. I assume his velo was down or waned, again?

10 day IL to skip a start should be a no brainer, no idea what they’re doing.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 17:21 pm Brandon Kiley reported he was 91-92 today. Saw a couple of posts from the Ninja with an 81 MPH breaker and 89 MPH cutter for Ks. I assume his velo was down or waned, again?

10 day IL to skip a start should be a no brainer, no idea what they’re doing.

FB velo was down just a tick, but didn't look like anything major:

Pitch/MPH/Yr.avg/+/-
4-seam: 93.8/94.3/-0.5
CB: 77.9/77.7/+0.2
CH: 89.1/88.8/+0.3
Cut: 90.2/90.2/0.0
SL: 86.7/86.4/+0.3
2-seam: 93.8/94.2/-0.4

Biggest difference appeared to be pitch mix: more CB (23%) and fewer cutters (13%) and sliders (12%), all to RHH. He has skewed more heavily toward the harder CU/SL combo (37.8% combined) and away from the slow CB (11.2%) this year, but today was a different story for whatever reason. With the Blue Jays' all-RH lineup, I would have expected a lot more CU/SL and less CB.

NYCardsFan wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 17:45 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑11 Jun 2025 17:21 pm Brandon Kiley reported he was 91-92 today. Saw a couple of posts from the Ninja with an 81 MPH breaker and 89 MPH cutter for Ks. I assume his velo was down or waned, again?

10 day IL to skip a start should be a no brainer, no idea what they’re doing.

FB velo was down just a tick, but didn't look like anything major:

Pitch/MPH/Yr.avg/+/-
4-seam: 93.8/94.3/-0.5
CB: 77.9/77.7/+0.2
CH: 89.1/88.8/+0.3
Cut: 90.2/90.2/0.0
SL: 86.7/86.4/+0.3
2-seam: 93.8/94.2/-0.4

Biggest difference appeared to be pitch mix: more CB (23%) and fewer cutters (13%) and sliders (12%), all to RHH. He has skewed more heavily toward the harder CU/SL combo (37.8% combined) and away from the slow CB (11.2%) this year, especially against RHH, but today was a different story for whatever reason. With the Blue Jays' all-RH lineup today, I would have expected a lot more CU/SL and less CB.

Thanks. I never know whether or not to believe Kiley. I suppose we don't have inning by inning FB velocity.

If their was a thought of skipping a start Toronto would have been the perfect team to do it with.

As usual the obvious escapes the Cardinal "braintrust".