PuckPedia

[Emma bleeds blue]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

[Walter Sobchak00]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

Teams only get around 1 million in cap relief when they send a player to the AHL, in a Krug scenario 5.5 million would still count against the cap if they were to send him to the AHL.

[STL fan in MN]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

Teams only get around 1 million in cap relief when they send a player to the AHL, in a Krug scenario 5.5 million would still count against the cap if they were to send him to the AHL.

Yeah, it’s $1.15M this upcoming season to be exact.

[STL fan in MN]

Slightly off the subject, but given the imperatives of locking in Broberg & Holloway & Hofer, I don't see a lot of room to be jimmying around for FAs, other than perhaps low-cost replacements for Texier or Faksa, who I wouldn't mind keeping anyway, if Texier is not healthy.

Chris Kerber was on 101 yesterday and was asked about potentially signing Sam Bennett as a free agent. He mentioned such a signing in excess of Thomas and Kyrou would completely upset the team salary structure since Holloway would likely deserve even more based on his superior stats. And truth be told I would much rather lock Broberg and Holloway up anyway.

The one name Kerbs mentioned as a possible stop gap UFA signing until Dvorsky is ready: C Trent Frederic who would bring extra physicality and a willingness to play up to and over the edge. I know he's not particularly well regarded by some, but maybe on a short term contract with a home town discount it would work.

Pretty sure Frederic has only played on the wing recently

And yes, Kerbs’ recommendation as a C is a guy that’s played mostly LW the last few years and when he did play C it was as a 4C. He’s a good 4th liner but not really what the Blues need currently IMO. If he wasn’t from STL, I doubt we’d keep hearing about him.

[Emma bleeds blue]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

Teams only get around 1 million in cap relief when they send a player to the AHL, in a Krug scenario 5.5 million would still count against the cap if they were to send him to the AHL.

Thank you!

[Emma bleeds blue]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

Teams only get around 1 million in cap relief when they send a player to the AHL, in a Krug scenario 5.5 million would still count against the cap if they were to send him to the AHL.

Yeah, it’s $1.15M this upcoming season to be exact.

Thanks!!

[seattleblue]

Slightly off the subject, but given the imperatives of locking in Broberg & Holloway & Hofer, I don't see a lot of room to be jimmying around for FAs, other than perhaps low-cost replacements for Texier or Faksa, who I wouldn't mind keeping anyway, if Texier is not healthy.

Chris Kerber was on 101 yesterday and was asked about potentially signing Sam Bennett as a free agent. He mentioned such a signing in excess of Thomas and Kyrou would completely upset the team salary structure since Holloway would likely deserve even more based on his superior stats. And truth be told I would much rather lock Broberg and Holloway up anyway.

The one name Kerbs mentioned as a possible stop gap UFA signing until Dvorsky is ready: C Trent Frederic who would bring extra physicality and a willingness to play up to and over the edge. I know he's not particularly well regarded by some, but maybe on a short term contract with a home town discount it would work.

Pretty sure Frederic has only played on the wing recently

And yes, Kerbs’ recommendation as a C is a guy that’s played mostly LW the last few years and when he did play C it was as a 4C. He’s a good 4th liner but not really what the Blues need currently IMO. If he wasn’t from STL, I doubt we’d keep hearing about him.

This Frederic fetish is embarrassing, it's really the only word for it. Kerbs probably wants Logan Brown back and in the lineup

[STL fan in MN]

Slightly off the subject, but given the imperatives of locking in Broberg & Holloway & Hofer, I don't see a lot of room to be jimmying around for FAs, other than perhaps low-cost replacements for Texier or Faksa, who I wouldn't mind keeping anyway, if Texier is not healthy.

Chris Kerber was on 101 yesterday and was asked about potentially signing Sam Bennett as a free agent. He mentioned such a signing in excess of Thomas and Kyrou would completely upset the team salary structure since Holloway would likely deserve even more based on his superior stats. And truth be told I would much rather lock Broberg and Holloway up anyway.

The one name Kerbs mentioned as a possible stop gap UFA signing until Dvorsky is ready: C Trent Frederic who would bring extra physicality and a willingness to play up to and over the edge. I know he's not particularly well regarded by some, but maybe on a short term contract with a home town discount it would work.

Pretty sure Frederic has only played on the wing recently

And yes, Kerbs’ recommendation as a C is a guy that’s played mostly LW the last few years and when he did play C it was as a 4C. He’s a good 4th liner but not really what the Blues need currently IMO. If he wasn’t from STL, I doubt we’d keep hearing about him.

This Frederic fetish is embarrassing, it's really the only word for it. Kerbs probably wants Logan Brown back and in the lineup

And Scott Mayfield even though he’s a #6 d-man making $3.5M for 5 more years.

[TheJackBurton]

Slightly off the subject, but given the imperatives of locking in Broberg & Holloway & Hofer, I don't see a lot of room to be jimmying around for FAs, other than perhaps low-cost replacements for Texier or Faksa, who I wouldn't mind keeping anyway, if Texier is not healthy.

Chris Kerber was on 101 yesterday and was asked about potentially signing Sam Bennett as a free agent. He mentioned such a signing in excess of Thomas and Kyrou would completely upset the team salary structure since Holloway would likely deserve even more based on his superior stats. And truth be told I would much rather lock Broberg and Holloway up anyway.

The one name Kerbs mentioned as a possible stop gap UFA signing until Dvorsky is ready: C Trent Frederic who would bring extra physicality and a willingness to play up to and over the edge. I know he's not particularly well regarded by some, but maybe on a short term contract with a home town discount it would work.

Pretty sure Frederic has only played on the wing recently

And yes, Kerbs’ recommendation as a C is a guy that’s played mostly LW the last few years and when he did play C it was as a 4C. He’s a good 4th liner but not really what the Blues need currently IMO. If he wasn’t from STL, I doubt we’d keep hearing about him.

This Frederic fetish is embarrassing, it's really the only word for it. Kerbs probably wants Logan Brown back and in the lineup

And Scott Mayfield even though he’s a #6 d-man making $3.5M for 5 more years.

They underpaid him when he was worth it, and are now overpaying him when he isn't.

They are going to have to eat a lot of that contract to get out from under it.

[Phil McCrakin]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

Teams only get around 1 million in cap relief when they send a player to the AHL, in a Krug scenario 5.5 million would still count against the cap if they were to send him to the AHL.

Looked it up. For the 24/25 season it was a savings of 1.15 million per player with one way contract to be sent to AHL. Let’s say this season is 1.25 (with cap going up). By temporarily sending down Sunny, Joseph and Texier that leaves 2.75 (approx) of Kruger 6.5 contact that can be used. Leaving Blues at what approx 8 million to sign Hoefer, get a depth defenseman and add at best a solid 3C? Army and Steen will have to trade a contract and/or find a supplemental piece until next year when we shed salary ( but will have Bromberg and Holloway extensions).

[TBone]

Chris Kerber was on 101 yesterday and was asked about potentially signing Sam Bennett as a free agent. He mentioned such a signing in excess of Thomas and Kyrou would completely upset the team salary structure since Holloway would likely deserve even more based on his superior stats.

Superior stats? Bennett isn't going to get paid based on regular season stats from one season...

I was referring to Holloway have better stats than Bennett.

[STL fan in MN]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

Teams only get around 1 million in cap relief when they send a player to the AHL, in a Krug scenario 5.5 million would still count against the cap if they were to send him to the AHL.

Looked it up. For the 24/25 season it was a savings of 1.15 million per player with one way contract to be sent to AHL. Let’s say this season is 1.25 (with cap going up). By temporarily sending down Sunny, Joseph and Texier that leaves 2.75 (approx) of Kruger 6.5 contact that can be used. Leaving Blues at what approx 8 million to sign Hoefer, get a depth defenseman and add at best a solid 3C? Army and Steen will have to trade a contract and/or find a supplemental piece until next year when we shed salary ( but will have Bromberg and Holloway extensions).

Except it’s not $1.25M, it’s $1.15M. It doesn’t automatically go up because the cap goes up. How it’s calculated is it’s $375k plus the minimum salary. League minimum for the last 3 years of the current CBA (2023-24, 2024-25 and 2025-26) is $775k.

Sounds like a new CBA could be announced soon (the current one expires in a year) so perhaps going forward this number or how it’s calculated with change. But for next season, it’ll be a max $1.15M that can be buried in the majors.

Also, the timing of your example doesn’t make any sense. The Blues can’t put any of those players on waivers until well into training camp. So they’re supposed to wait until then to sign Hofer, a center and RD? Won’t work. And the Blues would have to risk losing those guys to waivers too which I also doubt they’d be willing to do.

[BalotelliMassive]

Chris Kerber was on 101 yesterday and was asked about potentially signing Sam Bennett as a free agent. He mentioned such a signing in excess of Thomas and Kyrou would completely upset the team salary structure since Holloway would likely deserve even more based on his superior stats.

Superior stats? Bennett isn't going to get paid based on regular season stats from one season...

I was referring to Holloway have better stats than Bennett.

Yeah...so was I. Paying Holloway more than Bennett based on one good regular season is insanity.

[Phil McCrakin]

I think any LTIR claims have to be submitted after the session officially starts (day 1) and they don't automatically carry over from one season to the next. Even though krug isn't expected to play again, they'll still need to submit his LTIR claim at the beginning of every season. I think that's how it works anyway. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You’re correct. Krug said contract is counted in cap. Teams can go over cap during off season ( I believe 10% but not sure). So if Blues go over say 6.5 (Krug contract) on day one they would have to assign player(s) to AHL to get to cap. Then on day 1 they can put Krug on LTIR and bring assign player(s) backup. Example, technically Blues have approximately 11.5 cap space this summer. If they sign Hoefer to 2.5 and player(s) to 9 million. On day one they could assign 6.5 million in contracts, let’s say Sunny, Joseph and Texier to AHL ( subject them to waivers but probably a good chance no one picks them up) then after day 1 bring those 3 back up (I seem to remember seeing Edmonton contemplating this with Kane and his LTIR last summer). Now it’s also my understanding (could be wrong) that any amount team is short of cap ceiling the LTIR players contract must go to get to cap ceiling then team can use whatever amount is left on said contract to go over cap. Say Blues are at 93 million, 2 million of Krugs contract goes to cap ceiling the Blues can go over cap by 4.5 (whew). That’s why teams like Vegas and Tampa go to cap limit then place player on LTIR.

Phil - honest question - why don't the Blues just "send down" Krug, then bring him back and put him on LTIR? Wouldn't that do the same thing?

Teams only get around 1 million in cap relief when they send a player to the AHL, in a Krug scenario 5.5 million would still count against the cap if they were to send him to the AHL.

Looked it up. For the 24/25 season it was a savings of 1.15 million per player with one way contract to be sent to AHL. Let’s say this season is 1.25 (with cap going up). By temporarily sending down Sunny, Joseph and Texier that leaves 2.75 (approx) of Kruger 6.5 contact that can be used. Leaving Blues at what approx 8 million to sign Hoefer, get a depth defenseman and add at best a solid 3C? Army and Steen will have to trade a contract and/or find a supplemental piece until next year when we shed salary ( but will have Bromberg and Holloway extensions).

Except it’s not $1.25M, it’s $1.15M. It doesn’t automatically go up because the cap goes up. How it’s calculated is it’s $375k plus the minimum salary. League minimum for the last 3 years of the current CBA (2023-24, 2024-25 and 2025-26) is $775k.

Sounds like a new CBA could be announced soon (the current one expires in a year) so perhaps going forward this number or how it’s calculated with change. But for next season, it’ll be a max $1.15M that can be buried in the majors.

Also, the timing of your example doesn’t make any sense. The Blues can’t put any of those players on waivers until well into training camp. So they’re supposed to wait until then to sign Hofer, a center and RD? Won’t work. And the Blues would have to risk losing those guys to waivers too which I also doubt they’d be willing to do.

They can go 10% over cap during the summer so they can sign Hoefer and other players before training camp. And if someone claims any (or all) of the 3 players mentioned then the players whole contract comes off the books. I don't think the Blues would mind (possibly Sunny). I wasn't advocating this but pointing out they have more than the approximate 5 million Puckpedia states they have. Thanks for pointing out that the 1.15 stays this season and doesn't go up just because the cap does. Like I stated I wasn't aware on any of this until last year watching Edmonton podcasters trying to figure out how the Oilers could retain both Broberg and Holloway when they were close to the cap and Kane was contemplating having surgery and going on LTIR. Found it interesting that just because a player goes on LTIR it doesn't mean you have his total contract amount to spend unless your already at cap limit.

[bluetunehead]

I like Kerbs but signing Bennett (not that I'm expecting it) isn't going to upset the curve of what we do with Holloway. One is a UFA with years of experience and a monster playoff resume. The other is a RFA with one good year. It's correct that Holloway's bar has been set by Kyrou and Thomas, but a guy like Bennett is a much different situation.

[TBone]

I was referring to Holloway have better stats than Bennett.

Yeah...so was I. Paying Holloway more than Bennett based on one good regular season is insanity.

I hope you're onto something.

There's nothing I'd like better than extending Holloway at a bargain.