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Jatalk wrote: ↑03 May 2025 16:35 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.
If Walker was the exception then I would be less critical but over last several years it has been big bust one after the other.
JMO

Appreciate your point but it will never be time to stop blaming the Cardinals. They told us he was great. They coached him. So they either can’t judge talent or can’t develop players. Take your pick.

Hazelwood72 wrote: ↑03 May 2025 19:34 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑03 May 2025 16:35 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.
If Walker was the exception then I would be less critical but over last several years it has been big bust one after the other.
JMO

Appreciate your point but it will never be time to stop blaming the Cardinals. They told us he was great. They coached him. So they either can’t judge talent or can’t develop players. Take your pick.

No need to take your pick. Mo and his minions can’t judge talent and can’t develop players, either.

Mo should be tried for murder. He single-handedly killed The Cardinal Way.

HorseTrader wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:20 pm It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker. Pozo in short sample has looked like a hitter and he was in the minors. When Herrera comes back, one or more of those first 4 needs to go down. Let Pozo stick around, he's played some 1B and knows where LF and 3B are in an emergency.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

Ron Gant's Bicep wrote: ↑03 May 2025 18:44 pm The early returns are not promising, but he’s not that far removed from having some nice success in the big leagues in 2023. He’s 22 and clearly the league has figured out that he likes fishing for that low and away slider. I also agree with the poster who said he gets a lot of borderline balls called strikes.

He needs to adjust, plain and simple. And the only way to do that is through reps. Hard for fans to do, but need patience. Just look at what the Brewers did last year with Chourio. He couldn’t hit a beach ball the first few months of 2024. But they stuck with him and it paid dividends. Cardinals have yet to truly let Walker work through his struggles in the big leagues over an extended period.

It’s a reset year and the team stinks. No better time than now to give the 22 year old a long runway to get this figured out. And if he doesn’t, then we have our answer for now. But I still wouldn’t give up on him at age 23 next year either.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑03 May 2025 11:35 am He has the second lowest OPS+ on the team, ahead of Michael Sianni. He has 4 extra base hits all year. He's slashing .206 .270 .284 .555.

Who would have thought at this point that Masyn Winn and Victor Scott would look like more developed hitters? I know he wasn't handled great the last two years, but he's been given lots of runway this year and he's looking as bad as we've seen. We've seen that he can work to make improvements. He's come far defensively. But I don't see any improvement offensively. Am I missing something?

It's getting ugly.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑03 May 2025 23:19 pm

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑03 May 2025 11:35 am He has the second lowest OPS+ on the team, ahead of Michael Sianni. He has 4 extra base hits all year. He's slashing .206 .270 .284 .555.

Who would have thought at this point that Masyn Winn and Victor Scott would look like more developed hitters? I know he wasn't handled great the last two years, but he's been given lots of runway this year and he's looking as bad as we've seen. We've seen that he can work to make improvements. He's come far defensively. But I don't see any improvement offensively. Am I missing something?

It's getting ugly.

I think what you're missing (and so are the Cards) is that he isn't (nor has he really ever been) ready for the big leagues. He was rushed to The Show because Mo desperately wanted a homegrown prospect to be a successful and generate some excitement for the club. Unfortunately for Walker, he has been thrown to the wolves well before he was ready. (And he was nowhere close)

Jatalk wrote: ↑03 May 2025 16:35 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.
If Walker was the exception then I would be less critical but over last several years it has been big bust one after the other.
JMO

Appreciate your point but it will never be time to stop blaming the Cardinals. They told us he was great. They coached him. So they either can’t judge talent or can’t develop players. Take your pick.

Goldfan wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:37 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑03 May 2025 16:35 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.
If Walker was the exception then I would be less critical but over last several years it has been big bust one after the other.
JMO

Appreciate your point but it will never be time to stop blaming the Cardinals. They told us he was great. They coached him. So they either can’t judge talent or can’t develop players. Take your pick.

This

Jatalk wrote: ↑03 May 2025 16:35 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.
If Walker was the exception then I would be less critical but over last several years it has been big bust one after the other.
JMO

Appreciate your point but it will never be time to stop blaming the Cardinals. They told us he was great. They coached him. So they either can’t judge talent or can’t develop players. Take your pick.

cardiological wrote: ↑03 May 2025 17:16 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.

JMO

^^^This^^^^

Walker seems to have a good attitude, works hard, and his defense has clearly improved. But I fear his offensive skills may have simply been overrated. The usual caveat remains applicable however: He’s still young.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:47 am

cardiological wrote: ↑03 May 2025 17:16 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.

JMO

^^^This^^^^

Walker seems to have a good attitude, works hard, and his defense has clearly improved. But I fear his offensive skills may have simply been overrated. The usual caveat remains applicable however: He’s still young.

Even during his god rookie campaign I never felt like he was going to do damage in too many at-bats.

For example, when I watch I. Hererra take his whacks you expect him to do damage.

Jordan just doesn't give off that vibe.

He is still very young, just wonder how much longer the new regime, which has no investment in him, will wait.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:47 am

cardiological wrote: ↑03 May 2025 17:16 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.

JMO

^^^This^^^^

Walker seems to have a good attitude, works hard, and his defense has clearly improved. But I fear his offensive skills may have simply been overrated. The usual caveat remains applicable however: He’s still young.

Even during his god rookie campaign I never felt like he was going to do damage in too many at-bats.

For example, when I watch I. Hererra take his whacks you expect him to do damage.

Jordan just doesn't give off that vibe.

He is still very young, just wonder how much longer the new regime, which has no investment in him, will wait.

Will it become Blooms biggest Boom or Doom. Either way he will have to deal with it.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:53 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:47 am

cardiological wrote: ↑03 May 2025 17:16 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.

JMO

^^^This^^^^

Walker seems to have a good attitude, works hard, and his defense has clearly improved. But I fear his offensive skills may have simply been overrated. The usual caveat remains applicable however: He’s still young.

Even during his god rookie campaign I never felt like he was going to do damage in too many at-bats.

For example, when I watch I. Hererra take his whacks you expect him to do damage.

Jordan just doesn't give off that vibe.

He is still very young, just wonder how much longer the new regime, which has no investment in him, will wait.

Will it become Blooms biggest Boom or Doom. Either way he will have to deal with it.

If it's "doom", then it's on Mo.

If it's "Boom", then it's Bloom and his guys who fixed him!

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:56 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:53 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑04 May 2025 08:47 am

cardiological wrote: ↑03 May 2025 17:16 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑03 May 2025 12:36 pm Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.

JMO

^^^This^^^^

Walker seems to have a good attitude, works hard, and his defense has clearly improved. But I fear his offensive skills may have simply been overrated. The usual caveat remains applicable however: He’s still young.

Even during his god rookie campaign I never felt like he was going to do damage in too many at-bats.

For example, when I watch I. Hererra take his whacks you expect him to do damage.

Jordan just doesn't give off that vibe.

He is still very young, just wonder how much longer the new regime, which has no investment in him, will wait.

Will it become Blooms biggest Boom or Doom. Either way he will have to deal with it.

If it's "doom", then it's on Mo.

If it's "Boom", then it's Bloom and his guys who fixed him!

Now the - deal with him part. If all fails, Bloom has to deal him. If he booms, Bloom has to sign him. Either way he has to deal with this issue. Sooner or later. Love is gonna get ya. Sooner or later. Love is gonna win.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑03 May 2025 20:04 pm

Ron Gant's Bicep wrote: ↑03 May 2025 18:44 pm The early returns are not promising, but he’s not that far removed from having some nice success in the big leagues in 2023. He’s 22 and clearly the league has figured out that he likes fishing for that low and away slider. I also agree with the poster who said he gets a lot of borderline balls called strikes.

He needs to adjust, plain and simple. And the only way to do that is through reps. Hard for fans to do, but need patience. Just look at what the Brewers did last year with Chourio. He couldn’t hit a beach ball the first few months of 2024. But they stuck with him and it paid dividends. Cardinals have yet to truly let Walker work through his struggles in the big leagues over an extended period.

It’s a reset year and the team stinks. No better time than now to give the 22 year old a long runway to get this figured out. And if he doesn’t, then we have our answer for now. But I still wouldn’t give up on him at age 23 next year either.

Yea, that's fair. That's what this year is for, so let him play. I hope he can make the adjustments he needs to. He was able to make the improvements on defense, so hopefully the offense will come. It's pretty ugly right now, though. And he had a good month and a half at the end of last season to work it out as well.