What is happening with Jordan Walker?

[Ronnie Dobbs]

He has the second lowest OPS+ on the team, ahead of Michael Sianni. He has 4 extra base hits all year. He's slashing .206 .270 .284 .555.

Who would have thought at this point that Masyn Winn and Victor Scott would look like more developed hitters? I know he wasn't handled great the last two years, but he's been given lots of runway this year and he's looking as bad as we've seen. We've seen that he can work to make improvements. He's come far defensively. But I don't see any improvement offensively. Am I missing something?

It's getting ugly.

[sikeston bulldog2]

He has the second lowest OPS+ on the team, ahead of Michael Sianni. He has 4 extra base hits all year. He's slashing .206 .270 .284 .555.

Who would have thought at this point that Masyn Winn and Victor Scott would look like more developed hitters? I know he wasn't handled great the last two years, but he's been given lots of runway this year and he's looking as bad as we've seen. We've seen that he can work to make improvements. He's come far defensively. But I don't see any improvement offensively. Am I missing something?

It's getting ugly.

Some of his EV’s are noteworthy. That means he can hit if he makes contact. Consistently Contact. That’s his issue.

[scoutyjones2]

He has the second lowest OPS+ on the team, ahead of Michael Sianni. He has 4 extra base hits all year. He's slashing .206 .270 .284 .555.

Who would have thought at this point that Masyn Winn and Victor Scott would look like more developed hitters? I know he wasn't handled great the last two years, but he's been given lots of runway this year and he's looking as bad as we've seen. We've seen that he can work to make improvements. He's come far defensively. But I don't see any improvement offensively. Am I missing something?

It's getting ugly.

Some of his EV’s are noteworthy. That means he can hit if he makes contact. Consistently Contact. That’s his issue.

No. His contact is worm burners...he's a mess

[gtriever]

When they changed his batting stance to a more closed position, he started to show promise. But now it looks like he's slowing regressing to that previous stance with that goofy left foot.

[HorseTrader]

It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker. Pozo in short sample has looked like a hitter and he was in the minors. When Herrera comes back, one or more of those first 4 needs to go down. Let Pozo stick around, he's played some 1B and knows where LF and 3B are in an emergency.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

[blackinkbiz]

It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

Yep, all 4 are looking like a bust at this point. We KNOW Baker's a bust--that experiment needs to end pronto!

I will give this to Jordan--and this is without looking back through all the actual missed calls--he seems to get burned on more non-strikes being called strikes than anyone else on the team. Once again, his extreme size working against him.

Because of this, he's constantly behind in the count, and it's nearly impossible to be an impactful hitter when you're behind in the majority of your abs.

[rockondlouie]

Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.

JMO

[Jatalk]

Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.
If Walker was the exception then I would be less critical but over last several years it has been big bust one after the other.
JMO

Appreciate your point but it will never be time to stop blaming the Cardinals. They told us he was great. They coached him. So they either can’t judge talent or can’t develop players. Take your pick.

[Wattage]

It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

Yep, all 4 are looking like a bust at this point. We KNOW Baker's a bust--that experiment needs to end pronto!

I will give this to Jordan--and this is without looking back through all the actual missed calls--he seems to get burned on more non-strikes being called strikes than anyone else on the team. Once again, his extreme size working against him.

Because of this, he's constantly behind in the count, and it's nearly impossible to be an impactful hitter when you're behind in the majority of your abs.

How exactly is baker a bust? Bust implies he actually was a prospect with expectations at some point.

[cardiological]

Getting close to time to stop blaming the Cardinals and start accepting that J. Walker may not be the player we we're all led to believe he could be.

My "upside" now is J. Heyward (Age 20- 23: 18 HR/.259 .352 .443 .794) with average but not JHey great RF defense.

Unless he reaches this "upside" (and that's not much of an upside), then his time here could be limited under the new regime.

JMO

^^^This^^^^

Walker seems to have a good attitude, works hard, and his defense has clearly improved. But I fear his offensive skills may have simply been overrated. The usual caveat remains applicable however: He’s still young.

[blackinkbiz]

It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

Yep, all 4 are looking like a bust at this point. We KNOW Baker's a bust--that experiment needs to end pronto!

I will give this to Jordan--and this is without looking back through all the actual missed calls--he seems to get burned on more non-strikes being called strikes than anyone else on the team. Once again, his extreme size working against him.

Because of this, he's constantly behind in the count, and it's nearly impossible to be an impactful hitter when you're behind in the majority of your abs.

How exactly is baker a bust? Bust implies he actually was a prospect with expectations at some point.

lol, fine, bust isn't the correct term. What he is, is not worth the roster spot he's taking up and at his age, there doesn't seem to be enough "runway" to hope for some kind of future take-off.

[Ozziesfan41]

It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

Yep, all 4 are looking like a bust at this point. We KNOW Baker's a bust--that experiment needs to end pronto!

I will give this to Jordan--and this is without looking back through all the actual missed calls--he seems to get burned on more non-strikes being called strikes than anyone else on the team. Once again, his extreme size working against him.

Because of this, he's constantly behind in the count, and it's nearly impossible to be an impactful hitter when you're behind in the majority of your abs.

How exactly is baker a bust? Bust implies he actually was a prospect with expectations at some point.

lol, fine, bust isn't the correct term. What he is, is not worth the roster spot he's taking up and at his age, there doesn't seem to be enough "runway" to hope for some kind of future take-off.

I don’t get the dislike of baker. Hes on the team to pinch hit and occasionally start against left handers. Hes hitting .269 with a .424 OBP and .770 OPS against them coming off the bench agsinst them hes hitting .250 .455 OBP and .830 OPS. Burly yea hes not doing his job but Baker is doing what he’s on the team to do. Sure he isn’t hitting for power but it’s tough to get homerun stroke going in limited playing time

[blackinkbiz]

It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

Yep, all 4 are looking like a bust at this point. We KNOW Baker's a bust--that experiment needs to end pronto!

I will give this to Jordan--and this is without looking back through all the actual missed calls--he seems to get burned on more non-strikes being called strikes than anyone else on the team. Once again, his extreme size working against him.

Because of this, he's constantly behind in the count, and it's nearly impossible to be an impactful hitter when you're behind in the majority of your abs.

How exactly is baker a bust? Bust implies he actually was a prospect with expectations at some point.

lol, fine, bust isn't the correct term. What he is, is not worth the roster spot he's taking up and at his age, there doesn't seem to be enough "runway" to hope for some kind of future take-off.

I don’t get the dislike of baker. Hes on the team to pinch hit and occasionally start against left handers. Hes hitting .269 with a .424 OBP and .770 OPS against them coming off the bench agsinst them hes hitting .250 .455 OBP and .830 OPS. Burly yea hes not doing his job but Baker is doing what he’s on the team to do. Sure he isn’t hitting for power but it’s tough to get homerun stroke going in limited playing time

Because hitting for power is the one asset he's supposed to possess that separates him from all the other one-trick ponys that can hit singles at .250.

Plus, you're cherry-picking some stats there. Let's face it, he's hitting .212 with a .273 slug and a 79 OPS+.

He's never going to get enough regular abs to find his power stroke.

[Ozziesfan41]

It's not just Walker, they aren't getting anything from Burly, Gorman, and Baker.

Given the option, I'd send another one of those 4 down and bring Saggese back up.

Yep, all 4 are looking like a bust at this point. We KNOW Baker's a bust--that experiment needs to end pronto!

I will give this to Jordan--and this is without looking back through all the actual missed calls--he seems to get burned on more non-strikes being called strikes than anyone else on the team. Once again, his extreme size working against him.

Because of this, he's constantly behind in the count, and it's nearly impossible to be an impactful hitter when you're behind in the majority of your abs.

How exactly is baker a bust? Bust implies he actually was a prospect with expectations at some point.

lol, fine, bust isn't the correct term. What he is, is not worth the roster spot he's taking up and at his age, there doesn't seem to be enough "runway" to hope for some kind of future take-off.

I don’t get the dislike of baker. Hes on the team to pinch hit and occasionally start against left handers. Hes hitting .269 with a .424 OBP and .770 OPS against them coming off the bench agsinst them hes hitting .250 .455 OBP and .830 OPS. Burly yea hes not doing his job but Baker is doing what he’s on the team to do. Sure he isn’t hitting for power but it’s tough to get homerun stroke going in limited playing time

Because hitting for power is the one asset he's supposed to possess that separates him from all the other one-trick ponys that can hit singles at .250.

Plus, you're cherry-picking some stats there. Let's face it, he's hitting .212 with a .273 slug and a 79 OPS+.

He's never going to get enough regular abs to find his power stroke.

I’m not cherry picking. It was said during the offseason that he was making the team to play against lefthanders which that was the job he was assigned and hes is doing it. Now you may not like that they needed a guy who does that but with a .400+ OBP and .770 OPS starting and .830 OPS against them off the bench hes doing the job he is on the team to do. Give him more playing time he will hit homeruns

[Ron Gant's Bicep]

The early returns are not promising, but he’s not that far removed from having some nice success in the big leagues in 2023. He’s 22 and clearly the league has figured out that he likes fishing for that low and away slider. I also agree with the poster who said he gets a lot of borderline balls called strikes.

He needs to adjust, plain and simple. And the only way to do that is through reps. Hard for fans to do, but need patience. Just look at what the Brewers did last year with Chourio. He couldn’t hit a beach ball the first few months of 2024. But they stuck with him and it paid dividends. Cardinals have yet to truly let Walker work through his struggles in the big leagues over an extended period.

It’s a reset year and the team stinks. No better time than now to give the 22 year old a long runway to get this figured out. And if he doesn’t, then we have our answer for now. But I still wouldn’t give up on him at age 23 next year either.

[blackinkbiz]

The early returns are not promising, but he’s not that far removed from having some nice success in the big leagues in 2023. He’s 22 and clearly the league has figured out that he likes fishing for that low and away slider. I also agree with the poster who said he gets a lot of borderline balls called strikes.

He needs to adjust, plain and simple. And the only way to do that is through reps. Hard for fans to do, but need patience. Just look at what the Brewers did last year with Chourio. He couldn’t hit a beach ball the first few months of 2024. But they stuck with him and it paid dividends. Cardinals have yet to truly let Walker work through his struggles in the big leagues over an extended period.

It’s a reset year and the team stinks. No better time than now to give the 22 year old a long runway to get this figured out. And if he doesn’t, then we have our answer for now. But I still wouldn’t give up on him at age 23 next year either.

I didn't realize Churio struggled so much until June/July last season. He also played 148 games with 572 PAs. SOS Marmol will never allow the 3 guys who need it most to get anywhere near that amount of PA's. His constant lineup shuffling is such a detriment to these young players development I cannot fathom WTH the FO is thinking in continuing to allow him to do this.

I have 0 hope for 2025 without at least 2 of 3 of Walker, Gorman, Burly putting toegether 110+ish OPS seasons and the only way that's gonna happen is letting thim sink or swim by playing every day, especially once the weather warms up and the ball starts flying.

This is Oli's last chance to redeem any kind of positive for his regime and potential future employers. If he tanks their development and they're shipped off and find success elsewhere, Marmol will go down as not only the worst manager in Cardinals history, he could go down as one of the worst management decisions in all of MLB history.

Also, anyone know what site I could use to find the pitch track for all pitches ever thrown to Walker, their location, and the resulting call? I'd like to see just how many bad calls he's gotten screwed on.