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Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 13:15 pm
by Carp4Cy
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:19 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:08 pm
2ninr wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:58 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:42 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:32 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:50 pm
Libby has been our best pitcher. Should we trade him for a 19 yo hitting prospect since he's already burned 2-3 of his pre-arb years?
No.
The pitcher and hitter are irrelevant. A team has a need and the Cardinals have SP they may want. Add a legit MOTO bat that they have multiple young ones and the Cardinals need one. Someone will end up stealing a player like Mayo for a mid tier SP
100%. If Fedde and Helsley aren't traded at or before the deadline than FO is stupider than everybody thinks they are. That's pretty stupid. Honestly at that juncture, I think Bloom will be pretty much calling those shots. And I like to believe he's smart. I've read rumors that Bloom pushed for Libby to be a starter. They were going to send him to the bp. Anyone else hear that? Supposedly it was coming from Bernie. Strictly a rumor.
If we suddenly start playing .500 on the road from May to July, then this becomes a playoff team, and maybe we need Helsley and Fedde in Oct.
they've already shown they have the talent to hit big, pitch well and win at home. Sometimes the process of putting it altogether happens during a season, or when a manager is suddenly replaced...
I disagree on the hot big. They get a lot of baserunners but it doesn’t translate to runs often enough. They need thunder in the MOTO. I like the team offense except corner OF or Corner IF power is lacking. They need a 30-40Hr 100RBI guy
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think trading a badly needed pitcher Will a. Get us that guy, b. Make us enough better to move the needle.
I feel like we probably need Fedde and Helsley in 2026 and beyond plus we need to spend hard cash not talent on a 100 RBI guy. Or at worst trade surplus JAGs like Austin Gomber for a big contract salary relief Arenado type. That’s how we get better.
Trading Helsley or Nado at the deadline for JAG ceiling prospects just because that’s what the iPad says to do isn’t the path back to the playoffs.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 13:21 pm
by Youboughtit
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:15 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:19 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:08 pm
2ninr wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:58 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:42 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:32 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:50 pm
Libby has been our best pitcher. Should we trade him for a 19 yo hitting prospect since he's already burned 2-3 of his pre-arb years?
No.
The pitcher and hitter are irrelevant. A team has a need and the Cardinals have SP they may want. Add a legit MOTO bat that they have multiple young ones and the Cardinals need one. Someone will end up stealing a player like Mayo for a mid tier SP
100%. If Fedde and Helsley aren't traded at or before the deadline than FO is stupider than everybody thinks they are. That's pretty stupid. Honestly at that juncture, I think Bloom will be pretty much calling those shots. And I like to believe he's smart. I've read rumors that Bloom pushed for Libby to be a starter. They were going to send him to the bp. Anyone else hear that? Supposedly it was coming from Bernie. Strictly a rumor.
If we suddenly start playing .500 on the road from May to July, then this becomes a playoff team, and maybe we need Helsley and Fedde in Oct.
they've already shown they have the talent to hit big, pitch well and win at home. Sometimes the process of putting it altogether happens during a season, or when a manager is suddenly replaced...
I disagree on the hot big. They get a lot of baserunners but it doesn’t translate to runs often enough. They need thunder in the MOTO. I like the team offense except corner OF or Corner IF power is lacking. They need a 30-40Hr 100RBI guy
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think trading a badly needed pitcher Will a. Get us that guy, b. Make us enough better to move the needle.
I feel like we probably need Fedde and Helsley in 2026 and beyond plus we need to spend hard cash not talent on a 100 RBI guy. Or at worst trade surplus JAGs like Austin Gomber for a big contract salary relief Arenado type. That’s how we get better.
Trading Helsley or Nado at the deadline for JAG ceiling prospects just because that’s what the iPad says to do isn’t the path back to the playoffs.
Spending will NOT happen. Helsley will not be re signed. This is not a WS contender. They have no superstars. They need to find a way to trade assets for a future superstar to build the role players around. Plenty of role players to choose from. They need a cornerstone
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 13:26 pm
by Talkin' Baseball
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:15 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:19 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:08 pm
2ninr wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:58 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:42 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:32 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:50 pm
Libby has been our best pitcher. Should we trade him for a 19 yo hitting prospect since he's already burned 2-3 of his pre-arb years?
No.
The pitcher and hitter are irrelevant. A team has a need and the Cardinals have SP they may want. Add a legit MOTO bat that they have multiple young ones and the Cardinals need one. Someone will end up stealing a player like Mayo for a mid tier SP
100%. If Fedde and Helsley aren't traded at or before the deadline than FO is stupider than everybody thinks they are. That's pretty stupid. Honestly at that juncture, I think Bloom will be pretty much calling those shots. And I like to believe he's smart. I've read rumors that Bloom pushed for Libby to be a starter. They were going to send him to the bp. Anyone else hear that? Supposedly it was coming from Bernie. Strictly a rumor.
If we suddenly start playing .500 on the road from May to July, then this becomes a playoff team, and maybe we need Helsley and Fedde in Oct.
they've already shown they have the talent to hit big, pitch well and win at home. Sometimes the process of putting it altogether happens during a season, or when a manager is suddenly replaced...
I disagree on the hot big. They get a lot of baserunners but it doesn’t translate to runs often enough. They need thunder in the MOTO. I like the team offense except corner OF or Corner IF power is lacking. They need a 30-40Hr 100RBI guy
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think trading a badly needed pitcher Will a. Get us that guy, b. Make us enough better to move the needle.
I feel like we probably need Fedde and Helsley in 2026 and beyond plus we need to spend hard cash not talent on a 100 RBI guy. Or at worst trade surplus JAGs like Austin Gomber for a big contract salary relief Arenado type. That’s how we get better.
Trading Helsley or Nado at the deadline for JAG ceiling prospects just because that’s what the iPad says to do isn’t the path back to the playoffs.
Say it with me- they aren't re-signing Helsley or Fedde. Helsley and Arenado at the deadline have to the potential to yield more than JAG. Between the veterans we have and some of the young players we could part with, it's possible that the Cardinals do very well. Hopefully Chaim Bloom has significant input. He has his flaws, but I think he is a good talent evaluator.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 13:28 pm
by Carp4Cy
Youboughtit wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:21 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:15 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:19 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:08 pm
2ninr wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:58 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:42 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:32 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:50 pm
Libby has been our best pitcher. Should we trade him for a 19 yo hitting prospect since he's already burned 2-3 of his pre-arb years?
No.
The pitcher and hitter are irrelevant. A team has a need and the Cardinals have SP they may want. Add a legit MOTO bat that they have multiple young ones and the Cardinals need one. Someone will end up stealing a player like Mayo for a mid tier SP
100%. If Fedde and Helsley aren't traded at or before the deadline than FO is stupider than everybody thinks they are. That's pretty stupid. Honestly at that juncture, I think Bloom will be pretty much calling those shots. And I like to believe he's smart. I've read rumors that Bloom pushed for Libby to be a starter. They were going to send him to the bp. Anyone else hear that? Supposedly it was coming from Bernie. Strictly a rumor.
If we suddenly start playing .500 on the road from May to July, then this becomes a playoff team, and maybe we need Helsley and Fedde in Oct.
they've already shown they have the talent to hit big, pitch well and win at home. Sometimes the process of putting it altogether happens during a season, or when a manager is suddenly replaced...
I disagree on the hot big. They get a lot of baserunners but it doesn’t translate to runs often enough. They need thunder in the MOTO. I like the team offense except corner OF or Corner IF power is lacking. They need a 30-40Hr 100RBI guy
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think trading a badly needed pitcher Will a. Get us that guy, b. Make us enough better to move the needle.
I feel like we probably need Fedde and Helsley in 2026 and beyond plus we need to spend hard cash not talent on a 100 RBI guy. Or at worst trade surplus JAGs like Austin Gomber for a big contract salary relief Arenado type. That’s how we get better.
Trading Helsley or Nado at the deadline for JAG ceiling prospects just because that’s what the iPad says to do isn’t the path back to the playoffs.
Spending will NOT happen. Helsley will not be re signed. This is not a WS contender. They have no superstars. They need to find a way to trade assets for a future superstar to build the role players around. Plenty of role players to choose from. They need a cornerstone
We aren’t getting a gunner Henderson or even a young Soto by trading pending free agents. That’s not how it works anymore. We either have to spend in free agency or trade for someone for with a contract that’s larger than their team wants to afford to get that superstar.
We’ve already let Goldschmidt and Lynn and Gibson and Kitridge go, so it’s not like there isn’t dry powder available. But not spending will permanently reduced the budget because it will eventually alienate the season-ticket holders. That would be an unforced error of massive proportions
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 13:33 pm
by Carp4Cy
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:26 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:15 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:19 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:08 pm
2ninr wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:58 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:42 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:32 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:50 pm
Libby has been our best pitcher. Should we trade him for a 19 yo hitting prospect since he's already burned 2-3 of his pre-arb years?
No.
The pitcher and hitter are irrelevant. A team has a need and the Cardinals have SP they may want. Add a legit MOTO bat that they have multiple young ones and the Cardinals need one. Someone will end up stealing a player like Mayo for a mid tier SP
100%. If Fedde and Helsley aren't traded at or before the deadline than FO is stupider than everybody thinks they are. That's pretty stupid. Honestly at that juncture, I think Bloom will be pretty much calling those shots. And I like to believe he's smart. I've read rumors that Bloom pushed for Libby to be a starter. They were going to send him to the bp. Anyone else hear that? Supposedly it was coming from Bernie. Strictly a rumor.
If we suddenly start playing .500 on the road from May to July, then this becomes a playoff team, and maybe we need Helsley and Fedde in Oct.
they've already shown they have the talent to hit big, pitch well and win at home. Sometimes the process of putting it altogether happens during a season, or when a manager is suddenly replaced...
I disagree on the hot big. They get a lot of baserunners but it doesn’t translate to runs often enough. They need thunder in the MOTO. I like the team offense except corner OF or Corner IF power is lacking. They need a 30-40Hr 100RBI guy
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think trading a badly needed pitcher Will a. Get us that guy, b. Make us enough better to move the needle.
I feel like we probably need Fedde and Helsley in 2026 and beyond plus we need to spend hard cash not talent on a 100 RBI guy. Or at worst trade surplus JAGs like Austin Gomber for a big contract salary relief Arenado type. That’s how we get better.
Trading Helsley or Nado at the deadline for JAG ceiling prospects just because that’s what the iPad says to do isn’t the path back to the playoffs.
Say it with me- they aren't re-signing Helsley or Fedde. Helsley and Arenado at the deadline have to the potential to yield more than JAG. Between the veterans we have and some of the young players we could part with, it's possible that the Cardinals do very well. Hopefully Chaim Bloom has significant input. He has his flaws, but I think he is a good talent evaluator.
Ha, here we are talking about our need for a superstar and you’re arguing over whether an overrated B prospect should qualify as a jag or “very well.”
It’s not going to be Bobby Witt Jr.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 13:41 pm
by Talkin' Baseball
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:33 pm
Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:26 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:15 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:19 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:08 pm
2ninr wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:58 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:42 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:32 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:50 pm
Libby has been our best pitcher. Should we trade him for a 19 yo hitting prospect since he's already burned 2-3 of his pre-arb years?
No.
The pitcher and hitter are irrelevant. A team has a need and the Cardinals have SP they may want. Add a legit MOTO bat that they have multiple young ones and the Cardinals need one. Someone will end up stealing a player like Mayo for a mid tier SP
100%. If Fedde and Helsley aren't traded at or before the deadline than FO is stupider than everybody thinks they are. That's pretty stupid. Honestly at that juncture, I think Bloom will be pretty much calling those shots. And I like to believe he's smart. I've read rumors that Bloom pushed for Libby to be a starter. They were going to send him to the bp. Anyone else hear that? Supposedly it was coming from Bernie. Strictly a rumor.
If we suddenly start playing .500 on the road from May to July, then this becomes a playoff team, and maybe we need Helsley and Fedde in Oct.
they've already shown they have the talent to hit big, pitch well and win at home. Sometimes the process of putting it altogether happens during a season, or when a manager is suddenly replaced...
I disagree on the hot big. They get a lot of baserunners but it doesn’t translate to runs often enough. They need thunder in the MOTO. I like the team offense except corner OF or Corner IF power is lacking. They need a 30-40Hr 100RBI guy
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think trading a badly needed pitcher Will a. Get us that guy, b. Make us enough better to move the needle.
I feel like we probably need Fedde and Helsley in 2026 and beyond plus we need to spend hard cash not talent on a 100 RBI guy. Or at worst trade surplus JAGs like Austin Gomber for a big contract salary relief Arenado type. That’s how we get better.
Trading Helsley or Nado at the deadline for JAG ceiling prospects just because that’s what the iPad says to do isn’t the path back to the playoffs.
Say it with me- they aren't re-signing Helsley or Fedde. Helsley and Arenado at the deadline have to the potential to yield more than JAG. Between the veterans we have and some of the young players we could part with, it's possible that the Cardinals do very well. Hopefully Chaim Bloom has significant input. He has his flaws, but I think he is a good talent evaluator.
Ha, here we are talking about our need for a superstar and you’re arguing over whether an overrated B prospect should qualify as a jag or “very well.”
It’s not going to be Bobby Witt Jr.
You set yourself up to be unhappy. The Cardinals are not signing players to large contracts. They are not. Because a player is not Gunnar Henderson or Bobby Witt Jr. doesn't mean they are overrated B prospects. It is possible to acquire young, quality players.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 15:09 pm
by Youboughtit
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:28 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:21 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 13:15 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:57 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:19 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 21:08 pm
2ninr wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:58 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:42 pm
Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 19:32 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:50 pm
Libby has been our best pitcher. Should we trade him for a 19 yo hitting prospect since he's already burned 2-3 of his pre-arb years?
No.
The pitcher and hitter are irrelevant. A team has a need and the Cardinals have SP they may want. Add a legit MOTO bat that they have multiple young ones and the Cardinals need one. Someone will end up stealing a player like Mayo for a mid tier SP
100%. If Fedde and Helsley aren't traded at or before the deadline than FO is stupider than everybody thinks they are. That's pretty stupid. Honestly at that juncture, I think Bloom will be pretty much calling those shots. And I like to believe he's smart. I've read rumors that Bloom pushed for Libby to be a starter. They were going to send him to the bp. Anyone else hear that? Supposedly it was coming from Bernie. Strictly a rumor.
If we suddenly start playing .500 on the road from May to July, then this becomes a playoff team, and maybe we need Helsley and Fedde in Oct.
they've already shown they have the talent to hit big, pitch well and win at home. Sometimes the process of putting it altogether happens during a season, or when a manager is suddenly replaced...
I disagree on the hot big. They get a lot of baserunners but it doesn’t translate to runs often enough. They need thunder in the MOTO. I like the team offense except corner OF or Corner IF power is lacking. They need a 30-40Hr 100RBI guy
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think trading a badly needed pitcher Will a. Get us that guy, b. Make us enough better to move the needle.
I feel like we probably need Fedde and Helsley in 2026 and beyond plus we need to spend hard cash not talent on a 100 RBI guy. Or at worst trade surplus JAGs like Austin Gomber for a big contract salary relief Arenado type. That’s how we get better.
Trading Helsley or Nado at the deadline for JAG ceiling prospects just because that’s what the iPad says to do isn’t the path back to the playoffs.
Spending will NOT happen. Helsley will not be re signed. This is not a WS contender. They have no superstars. They need to find a way to trade assets for a future superstar to build the role players around. Plenty of role players to choose from. They need a cornerstone
We aren’t getting a gunner Henderson or even a young Soto by trading pending free agents. That’s not how it works anymore. We either have to spend in free agency or trade for someone for with a contract that’s larger than their team wants to afford to get that superstar.
We’ve already let Goldschmidt and Lynn and Gibson and Kitridge go, so it’s not like there isn’t dry powder available. But not spending will permanently reduced the budget because it will eventually alienate the season-ticket holders. That would be an unforced error of massive proportions
Gray and Helsley for Mayo or Kjerstd could happen
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 15:41 pm
by Mort Gage
The Ravens, pardon Orioles, surrendered three TDs and a FG to the Bengals today. Fedde to the Orioles would have been a great match this past offseason, and still would be.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 16:20 pm
by ForumPolice
tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:08 pm
Honestly this has been the thing I’m most excited for. Matz helsley maton even Nado are keeping up their trade stock. I’d package them with some of our redundant pieces. Donovan is killing it and he’d be great if we were near ready as a dominant utility guy but I’d think about dangling him with Winn Wetherholt and not playing his positions.
Problem is, I want zero of Mo's fingerprints on any trades. Ever.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 17:05 pm
by Melville
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 17:16 pm
If the cardinals are smart they call Baltimore. Surplus of top prospect hitters and no pitching. A competent GM would obtain a legit MOTO bat like Mayo for Fedde. This is NOT a WS contender. The smart move is to add to the youth and specifically a MOTO power bat. Then bring up the young SP to get experience
Orioles have 5 of their 6 projected starting pitchers on the IL.
Yes - they should add one or two, and STL can accommodate that.
Matz and Mikolas are the obvious choices.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 17:10 pm
by Hazelwood72
ForumPolice wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 16:20 pm
tyoung12290 wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 18:08 pm
Honestly this has been the thing I’m most excited for. Matz helsley maton even Nado are keeping up their trade stock. I’d package them with some of our redundant pieces. Donovan is killing it and he’d be great if we were near ready as a dominant utility guy but I’d think about dangling him with Winn Wetherholt and not playing his positions.
Problem is, I want zero of Mo's fingerprints on any trades. Ever.
I don’t want MO’s fingerprints on ANYTHING regarding the Cardinals. He’s got the Reverse Midas Touch.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 17:14 pm
by imadangman
Look what happened today. They got blown 24-2 by the Reds. Charlie Morton's ERA really didn't go up that much as he already was doing terrible.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 18:06 pm
by Banner29
imadangman wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 17:14 pm
Look what happened today. They got blown 24-2 by the Reds. Charlie Morton's ERA really didn't go up that much as he already was doing terrible.
What an absurd collection of ERAs from every Baltimore pitcher today
Not one guy south of 10.00
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 18:14 pm
by Youboughtit
Melville wrote: ↑20 Apr 2025 17:05 pm
Youboughtit wrote: ↑19 Apr 2025 17:16 pm
If the cardinals are smart they call Baltimore. Surplus of top prospect hitters and no pitching. A competent GM would obtain a legit MOTO bat like Mayo for Fedde. This is NOT a WS contender. The smart move is to add to the youth and specifically a MOTO power bat. Then bring up the young SP to get experience
Orioles have 5 of their 6 projected starting pitchers on the IL.
Yes - they should add one or two, and STL can accommodate that.
Matz and Mikolas are the obvious choices.
They are trying to win now. They have zero interest in those guys. Like I said Gray and Helsley for Mayo or Kjerted. Add the needed MOTO bat
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 18:15 pm
by kyace
Cards should try to get as many draft picks as possible early ahead of this draft. Baltimore has 2 comp picks at 30 and 31. I would trade Fedde for one of those and maybe a further away prospect. Seattle has a comp pick at 35 and KC at 28 I would target also. This coming draft there is not a big difference in a top 10 pick and a 40 pick as normally. Need to load up on talent thru the draft.
Re: Orioles SP
Posted: 20 Apr 2025 18:38 pm
by jcgmoi
The Ravens, pardon Orioles, surrendered three TDs and a FG to the Bengals today.
That was a fugly display.
Charlie Morton got through the first two innings with a single run allowed but in the third it went homer, single, walk, single, single, K (!), a Morton error on a pickoff attempt, a final single, adios Charlie.