Everyone not named Wetherholt is tradeable: Jeff Passan says club is listening on Burley

[ecleme22]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

[rbirules]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

[ecleme22]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

And I disagree with the last part of the sentence.

Just because he's a catcher and we have a lot of catching PROSPECTS, doesn't make him expendable.

[CorneliusWolfe]

7-8 years?? That should enough time to turn an expansion team into a winner. Any GM that needs that much time is definitely not upper tier, and is likely completely unqualified for the job.

I don’t disagree that everyone pretty much can be considered for trade other than JJ. They first need to find out if Walker can be extended and if so get it done and if not trade him in the offseason or next deadline. If he performs well again next year, they could still get an absolute haul for him. Probably more than now if he shows consistency.

It would also be wise to see if Hererra can play elsewhere. His OBP ability should not be underestimated but he can’t throw and is an invitation for teams to run wild without impunity.

Probably wise to keep McGreevy, Pallante and Leahy too. That’s 3/5 of a good rotation, as long as it’s the back end 3. No need to completely rebuild it as that would be a setback. Doing things like that probably would require 8 years.

[rbirules]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

And I disagree with the last part of the sentence.

Just because he's a catcher and we have a lot of catching PROSPECTS, doesn't make him expendable.

R.R. himself is still a PROSPECT. Just a really good one. I never said or implied he was expendable and I even said I can't imagine him being traded.

But if the Royals for some reason decided to trade Bobby Witt I would at least have to consider including R.R., that's the type of incredibly unlikely scenario I was describing because I think every player is available for the right price, but in reality I can't imagine trading him.

[Red Bird Classic]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

And I disagree with the last part of the sentence.

Just because he's a catcher and we have a lot of catching PROSPECTS, doesn't make him expendable.

I'll bet you'd trade him for PCA.

If so, you and RBI essentially agree. He's not untradeable.

[ecleme22]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

And I disagree with the last part of the sentence.

Just because he's a catcher and we have a lot of catching PROSPECTS, doesn't make him expendable.

I'll bet you'd trade him for PCA.

If so, you and RBI essentially agree. He's not untradeable.

Not sure I would, though his contract is a lot better than Witt's.

[rockondlouie]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

See I'm building around JJW & Herrera who has a much longer and more established record as one of the best RHHer's in MLB since 2024.

I'm not sure Cardinals Nation realizes just how valuable Herrera, with three years of low cost control, is.

Thanks to Bernie who's now on my side in this debate for doing this research:

12d. Since the start of the 2024 season, only 12 right-handed hitters with at least 1,000 plate appearances have a higher OPS+ than Herrera’s 124: Aaron Judge, Bobby Witt Jr., Willson Contreras, Byron Buxton, Junior Camineiro, Vlad Guerrero Jr., Mike Trout, Brent Rooker, Seiya Suzuki, Pete Alonso, Yandy Diaz and Will Smith.

Moreover, when he’s right Herrera is an on-base machine. Since the start of the 2023 season only 10 MLB hitters (from either side of the plate) have a higher OBP than Herrera’s .370.

Here's a video he did titled:

DON'T DO IT!
Trading Ivan Herrera Would Be a MISTAKE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHwmRs_EbxM

Sure C. Bloom has to pickup the phone when fellow POBO's call about him.

And if one were to offer a FOTR starter w/multiple years of control or their #1 prospect, then he may deal him.

Won't happen (IMO) as Bloom isn't dealing Herrera and no team is going to make that offer.

As for Walker, I'd love to add him to the "build around" mix but ONLY at the right price.

I'd NEVER go where some are suggesting ($200+M).

I'm not ignoring 2024/2025 or his second half slump (0 HR's/.215 .271 .277 .548).

I'm not one to get excited about batting practice (re: HR Derby) or make an irrational L-T deal based on a half of a season after the previous two were terrible.

Something around the JJW deal, $115M/6 years if fair for me.

Generational wealth while also allowing him to hit FA again at 30/31 yrs old.

Burly I'd deal for the right player but I'd want a major leaguer w/years of control, not a prospect.

I'm by no means saying give Herrera away, it would take a very attractive package for me to move him. But like with Walker, if we're not adding to this roster in a substantial way in the next couple of years then everybody but JJ can, and probably should, be traded. Not the position i want to be in but if ownership isn't going to step up and commit to this team in the short term then this seems like the path forward. Especially with R.R. not too far away.

Hopefully the new CBA has a salary floor that forces their hand.

JMO rbi's

But the Dewitt's have to starting upping the payroll (I've said at least $100M over 2027/2028 given they'll only have JJW on the books after paying off NADO, WillyC plus May & Urias buyouts) after the new CBA is in place or they risk losing an entire generation of fans who aren't use to this type of losing w/NO EFFORT from the Dewitt's.

I grew up in the 70's and have seen just how a bad decade of baseball affects attendance here and how long it took to win back the fan base, not until Whitey was hired.

I'd love a salary floor too, sure hope we get one.

[Red Bird Classic]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

And I disagree with the last part of the sentence.

Just because he's a catcher and we have a lot of catching PROSPECTS, doesn't make him expendable.

I'll bet you'd trade him for PCA.

If so, you and RBI essentially agree. He's not untradeable.

Not sure I would, though his contract is a lot better than Witt's.

Do you think Rainiel Rodriguez is a Latin Johnny Bench?

If I was Cham, I'd sprint the the phone and probably give my self a heart attack if someone told me the Cubs were on the line wanting to trade PCA for RR. But whatever.

[rbirules]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

And I disagree with the last part of the sentence.

Just because he's a catcher and we have a lot of catching PROSPECTS, doesn't make him expendable.

I'll bet you'd trade him for PCA.

If so, you and RBI essentially agree. He's not untradeable.

Yeah this might be an even better example, given his position and contract. Trading a player isn't a binary classification, it's a range based on value being returned. So unless you think R.R. is the most valuable asset in baseball (minors or majors) then he isn't untouchable. Even the best player/asset could be traded for the right package.

[Futuregm2]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

Since 2024 Herrera has a .790 OPS. And most of his statcast numbers have regressed pretty well this year. And he's mostly become a DH. That's not good enough to make him "untouchable". Especially when you have Bernal (.851 OPS and superior defense in AAA) and Rainiel Rodriguez (.981 OPS over his last 189 PA in AA) knocking down the door.

[JDW]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

JJ is my only untouchable. R.R. is about a close as it gets for a prospect as I can't envision a move where it makes sense to trade him, but we have lots of catchers and if he returned an elite MLB player at a position of need I'd at least have to consider it.

Walker is in a tier below them by himself. I'd live to build around him, but that requires an extension and/or ownership willing to spend on the rest of the roster in the near term. If that isn't realistic then seeking high makes a lot of sense, as much as it pains me to say that.

Everybody else is expendable in the right deal including our only other good hitters in Burleson and Herrera.

You don't trade RR...

I literally said "I can't envision a move where it makes sense to move him".

But he hasn't produced at the MLB level like JJ has, so I'm just distinguishing between the two.

And I disagree with the last part of the sentence.

Just because he's a catcher and we have a lot of catching PROSPECTS, doesn't make him expendable.

I'll bet you'd trade him for PCA.

If so, you and RBI essentially agree. He's not untradeable.

Yeah this might be an even better example, given his position and contract. Trading a player isn't a binary classification, it's a range based on value being returned. So unless you think R.R. is the most valuable asset in baseball (minors or majors) then he isn't untouchable. Even the best player/asset could be traded for the right package.

Yeah, and I recently saw where Bobby Witt Jr.'s BTV is significantly over +200M, (+231 I think).
IF in reality, KC could trade for 4 really good players/prospects who all had BTV's around +50 for BW, plus a few basic BP/utility guys, you'd have a hard time convincing me that KC wouldn't instantly improve their W-L trajectory, both short and longer term.

Currently, don't think the Cards have a +50 BTV guy, not even Rainiel, just to give an example of how good +50's guys typically are.

[Clubmaker2]

Trading the quality players will push them back multiple years which I doubt they want to do. The trade guys are as people have said since opening day. May. Jojo. Noot. Some catcher if anyone offers anything. Most anything else adds years to the rebuild calendar. Don't see it happening.

[RunSup]

Makes sense.
Burley is a little old for a 7-8 year rebuild.
May as well move him as well.
Team needs pitching, pitching, pitching.
I'd move Jordan Walker too while his trade value high.
Try and snag some high-end pitching prospects this time.

I mean we have at least 7-8 more years before they could contend, right?

2028 is when the expected window opens. They are buyers as early as next year.

[Ozziesfan41]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

Since 2024 Herrera has a .790 OPS. And most of his statcast numbers have regressed pretty well this year. And he's mostly become a DH. That's not good enough to make him "untouchable". Especially when you have Bernal (.851 OPS and superior defense in AAA) and Rainiel Rodriguez (.981 OPS over his last 189 PA in AA) knocking down the door.

Yea I would trade him if blown away although he is going to be a very good hitter and hit for power and unless they hit on the players they trade him for he would be a guy cards talk always complains about how stupid it was to trade him but because of his defensive limitations yea trade him if blown away. Same goes for burly I like him but when one of your best hitters becomes your worst hitter by bringing in a lefty you have entertain offers and if blown away trade him also

[rockondlouie]

Makes perfect sense

If the return was right, then I'd deal Walker, Winn, Burly, Pallante, RO'B, ect..........

Only off limits for me are JJW & I. Herrera and of course the untouchable R. R.

JMO

Since 2024 Herrera has a .790 OPS. And most of his statcast numbers have regressed pretty well this year. And he's mostly become a DH. That's not good enough to make him "untouchable". Especially when you have Bernal (.851 OPS and superior defense in AAA) and Rainiel Rodriguez (.981 OPS over his last 189 PA in AA) knocking down the door.

OR

Thanks to Bernie who's now on my side in this debate for doing this research:

Since the start of the 2024 season, only 12 right-handed hitters with at least 1,000 plate appearances have a higher OPS+ than Herrera’s 124: Aaron Judge, Bobby Witt Jr., Willson Contreras, Byron Buxton, Junior Camineiro, Vlad Guerrero Jr., Mike Trout, Brent Rooker, Seiya Suzuki, Pete Alonso, Yandy Diaz and Will Smith.

Moreover, when he’s right Herrera is an on-base machine. Since the start of the 2023 season only 10 MLB hitters (from either side of the plate) have a higher OBP than Herrera’s .370.

Here's a video he did titled:

DON'T DO IT!
Trading Ivan Herrera Would Be a MISTAKE

And last time I looked the "DH" is an actually lineup card spot that needs filling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHwmRs_EbxM