cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 17:37 pm
They scored 32 runs in the 10 games prior to the lineup changes.
They've scored 30 runs in the last 10 games since the lineup changes.
Maybe the lineup just sucks and it really doesn't matter where any of these guys are hitting. I think the last clutch hit from this offense was like 3 months ago. It's bad.
The relevant lineup changes which torpedoed the team's performance did not take place 10 games ago.
It took place with a series of roster moves in early June.
And those decisions backfired precisely as I predicted at the time.
cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 18:17 pm
Over the last 30 games, so 20 before the lineup change and 10 after the lineup change the Cardinals are:
Dead last in team OPS at .612
Dead last in team AVG at .218
2nd to last in HR's with 19
2nd to last in OBP at .287
Dead last in SLG at .325
It's not just since the lineup changes guys, this lineup has SUCKED for well over a month now.
Yet you have a good number on CT calling for more pitching. Don't know what games they are watching. The offense is bottom of the barrel. But yeah, a better pen would be nice. So this team, in other words, has major holes hitting and pitching.
Last edited by icon on 01 Aug 2026 22:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 19:09 pm
MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team
So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.
Your factual and well supported post adds nothing to this thread since only the opinions that support Oli being wrong are considered correct. Despite the facts provided, i am sure from reading Card Talk experts that Marmol is the only manager dumb enough to bat his RBI leader higher than 4th. Everyone knows that every shortcoming on this team is on it's manager.
The frustration for me has nothing to do with other teams strengths, or who other teams have hitting 7-8-9. We all remember Tommy Herr knocking in 100 runs from the 2 hole. Not all teams are constructed the same. For the 2026 Cardinals, their OB guys were hitting 1-2-3.
JW as leading ALL OF MLB in RBI hitting 4th , behind JJW, Ivan and Burly. It seemed every time he came to bat there was RISP. Then, its almost like someone said....." this isn't fair, let's give someone else a chance at those RBI". Why else would you change something that you were #1 at?
Well, I do remember Herr knocking in 100 from the 3 hole. Coleman and McGee occupied LO and the 2 hole.
Cardinals1964 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 17:34 pm
Didn’t Pujols bat second sometimes? I didn’t like that either.
I think Oli hit Pujols 2nd in the playoff series in 22 (IIRC). Pujols was a 3 hole staple (occasionally 4th) as a Cardinal. La Russa understood lineup construction.
TopofthePerch wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 18:14 pm
Walker has the most hits on the team an this gets him an extra at bat per game. If it doesn't work out or is flawed then that's a fair point. To act like Oli is dumb and came up with this based off of no logic isn't at all true. TLR did this all the time and I guarantee a lot of other managers do as well. It's the result of the lineup really struggling
Voldemort wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 17:53 pm
Oli, the dumb (XXX), changed the lineup from a lineup that had them 5 games over .500 at the All-Star break. It has been apparent that this change has been a disaster, and yet Oli can't seem to figure this out.
Seems like they have decided to lose since the Brewers series. It was obvious then and obvious today. Marmol is not playing to win. He is playing for a "sell". I didnt want to believe it, but it has become very clear that is what is going on.
cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 19:09 pm
MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team
So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.
Walker had JJ and Herrera (and a lot of times Burly) on in front of him. It was working! Now he has the 8-9-1 guys in front of him. Not the same. Just because EVERYONE is doing it, doesn't mean you have the personnel to do it also. Oli doesn't get this. He sucks!
cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 19:33 pm
Another interesting thing brought up during the game today is that Burly is the teams best hitter with RISP, batting .347 in such situations.
Herrera is batting .233 with RISP, so not really doing much hitting in the 2nd spot with runners on base.
You literally just showed why perhaps having Burleson and Walker 3-4 made more sense than Ivan at 4.
TopofthePerch wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 18:14 pm
Walker has the most hits on the team an this gets him an extra at bat per game. If it doesn't work out or is flawed then that's a fair point. To act like Oli is dumb and came up with this based off of no logic isn't at all true. TLR did this all the time and I guarantee a lot of other managers do as well. It's the result of the lineup really struggling
No, no he didn't. TLR didn't hit Albert 2nd.
I never said he hit Pujols second. I said he used that strategy.
cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 19:33 pm
Another interesting thing brought up during the game today is that Burly is the teams best hitter with RISP, batting .347 in such situations.
Herrera is batting .233 with RISP, so not really doing much hitting in the 2nd spot with runners on base.
You literally just showed why perhaps having Burleson and Walker 3-4 made more sense than Ivan at 4.
Yes, this shows why Burly was moved to 3. Why keep Herrera at #2 when his OBP in the month of July was .261? And again, NOBODY on this team was hitting or getting on base in July, so there was no other option to try and slide into the #2 spot to kick start any kind of offense other than your best overall hitter so far this season in Walker. Has it worked, no, but they had to try and change up something, as this offense has been dead for a long time.
cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 19:09 pm
MLB RBI leader Sal Stewart bats 2nd for his team.
3rd place in RBI's is Yordan Alvarez, who bats 2nd for his team.
Walker is currently 4th
5th place is Luis Garcia Jr. who bats 2nd for his team
6th place is Ben Rice who bats 2nd for his team
So 5 of the top 6 guys in RBI's this season are currently batting 2nd in their lineup.
Your factual and well supported post adds nothing to this thread since only the opinions that support Oli being wrong are considered correct. Despite the facts provided, i am sure from reading Card Talk experts that Marmol is the only manager dumb enough to bat his RBI leader higher than 4th. Everyone knows that every shortcoming on this team is on it's manager.
The frustration for me has nothing to do with other teams strengths, or who other teams have hitting 7-8-9. We all remember Tommy Herr knocking in 100 runs from the 2 hole. Not all teams are constructed the same. For the 2026 Cardinals, their OB guys were hitting 1-2-3.
JW as leading ALL OF MLB in RBI hitting 4th , behind JJW, Ivan and Burly. It seemed every time he came to bat there was RISP. Then, its almost like someone said....." this isn't fair, let's give someone else a chance at those RBI". Why else would you change something that you were #1 at?
Well, I do remember Herr knocking in 100 from the 3 hole. Coleman and McGee occupied LO and the 2 hole.
*Lineup construction is about hitters strengths complimenting each other
*In most MLB lineups best hitter should bat 2nd - No one in bottom of the Cardinal lineup is on base, so no one for #2 hitter to drive in
*Rest of the league R/D departments zigged against our hitters - we didn't zag
*Rest of the league R/D departments zigged against our bullpen - we didn't zag
*Team lost confidence for two reasons:
#Upper management failed to recognize that the players and coaches had mindset of making playoffs, but made it clear they would not bring in help for the playoff stretch, showing players they didn't believe in their team
#NO matter what lead we had, the bullpen could not be counted on
*Many one run ball games where we have a fast runner on first, but fail to roll the dice and steal. Too much station to station baseball
Idaho Cards wrote: ↑02 Aug 2026 08:07 am
*Lineup construction is about hitters strengths complimenting each other
*In most MLB lineups best hitter should bat 2nd - No one in bottom of the Cardinal lineup is on base, so no one for #2 hitter to drive in
*Rest of the league R/D departments zigged against our hitters - we didn't zag
*Rest of the league R/D departments zigged against our bullpen - we didn't zag
*Team lost confidence for two reasons:
#Upper management failed to recognize that the players and coaches had mindset of making playoffs, but made it clear they would not bring in help for the playoff stretch, showing players they didn't believe in their team
#NO matter what lead we had, the bullpen could not be counted on
*Many one run ball games where we have a fast runner on first, but fail to roll the dice and steal. Too much station to station baseball
"Upper management failed to recognize that the players and coaches had mindset of making playoffs, but made it clear they would not bring in help for the playoff stretch, showing players they didn't believe in their team"
Spot.
On.
And I made that PRECISE POINT in early June when the team made a series of roster moves - each of which was about the trade deadline and upcoming offseason.
As I have stated correctly many times, individuals will attempt to perform to expectations.
Once DeWitt, Bloom, and The Marmot reminded the players in early June that winning games was not the priority, the players responded predictably.
Which, in fact, I did.
It was inevitable.
Folks, this stuff ain't hard.
This team and Oli had a potential historic MVP type season going in Walker. The same guy who couldn’t hit .200 last season. And instead of just leaving him alone and not changing one thing with his process, his routine, place in lineup. They promote him to the HR derby and then move him to 2nd in the order. This is a nothing burger with a bonafide star…..a vet ……someone who has been in the spotlight before. But JW was literally months away from not having a clue how to hit a baseball. The stupidity of this FO/manager is glaring in some aspects of this team.
Voldemort wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 17:53 pm
Oli, the dumb (XXX), changed the lineup from a lineup that had them 5 games over .500 at the All-Star break. It has been apparent that this change has been a disaster, and yet Oli can't seem to figure this out.
Seems like they have decided to lose since the Brewers series. It was obvious then and obvious today. Marmol is not playing to win. He is playing for a "sell". I didnt want to believe it, but it has become very clear that is what is going on.
Voldemort wrote: ↑01 Aug 2026 17:53 pm
Oli, the dumb (XXX), changed the lineup from a lineup that had them 5 games over .500 at the All-Star break. It has been apparent that this change has been a disaster, and yet Oli can't seem to figure this out.
Seems like they have decided to lose since the Brewers series. It was obvious then and obvious today. Marmol is not playing to win. He is playing for a "sell". I didnt want to believe it, but it has become very clear that is what is going on.
IMO, it is now about a draft pick.
Yeah that Brewers Series White Flag was embarrassing…..and either the team saw it and quit or Oli has been doing his best sabotage
