Cardinals Offense

[sikeston bulldog2]

Has really taken off since the resident genius decided to bat Walker 2 and Herrera 4.

NOT!

How many BFIB think that the resident genius came to this decision all in his own?

Or…
How many BFIB think that the resident genius asked his iPad about this brilliant stroke of genius?

It's not the batting order. You could pick them out of a hat. It's the personnel. Crooks, Church, Nootbaar, Blaze all are under performing. Or maybe they're performing normally. Either way, any opposing pitcher really only has to worry about Walker, JJ and Herrera. That's why it hurts if any of them slump (Walker right now).

You hit the mark- maybe they are performing to THEIR standard. If so, we are merely short talent. Another fall out from the past.

So. Need to shore up the players performance level. How?

[scoutyjones2]

All in CT know my thought's on this since the days they wasted Goldy in the #2 hole and I went nuts.

You don't move the MLB leader in RBI's (at the break) to the #2 hole.

And if Oli thought it would boost his offense, huge failure:

JWalk in the #2 Hole
0 HR
2 RBI
.188 .235 .250 .485

A whole 8 games of ABs...using that logic, he should bat 5th or 7th, or 3rd

He is what he is...still young and still learning. Offensively and defensively.

The thing is, there was no justification to the switch. There should not have been an 8 game trial, at a lesser rbi position in the order. Not when hes leading all if MLB in rbi.

He was flailing. Look at June and July. Sub 800 OPS

[rockondlouie]

All in CT know my thought's on this since the days they wasted Goldy in the #2 hole and I went nuts.

You don't move the MLB leader in RBI's (at the break) to the #2 hole.

And if Oli thought it would boost his offense, huge failure:

JWalk in the #2 Hole
0 HR
2 RBI
.188 .235 .250 .485

A whole 8 games of ABs...using that logic, he should bat 5th or 7th, or 3rd

He is what he is...still young and still learning. Offensively and defensively.

How's it working out in the #2 hole?

8 games. Is that your line on the stand? How's he doing for the month of July and June? Bigger sample size showing regression.

Perhaps it was an opportunity to shake him out of his sub 800 last 2 months

Stupid move

But I get it, you're an Oli fan and always seem to come to his defense.

[scoutyjones2]

All in CT know my thought's on this since the days they wasted Goldy in the #2 hole and I went nuts.

You don't move the MLB leader in RBI's (at the break) to the #2 hole.

And if Oli thought it would boost his offense, huge failure:

JWalk in the #2 Hole
0 HR
2 RBI
.188 .235 .250 .485

A whole 8 games of ABs...using that logic, he should bat 5th or 7th, or 3rd

He is what he is...still young and still learning. Offensively and defensively.

How's it working out in the #2 hole?

8 games. Is that your line on the stand? How's he doing for the month of July and June? Bigger sample size showing regression.

Perhaps it was an opportunity to shake him out of his sub 800 last 2 months

Stupid move

But I get it, you're an Oli fan and always seem to come to his defense.

nope not a fan or a hater. A realist

How's JW been thru June and July

[Futuregm2]

All in CT know my thought's on this since the days they wasted Goldy in the #2 hole and I went nuts.

You don't move the MLB leader in RBI's (at the break) to the #2 hole.

And if Oli thought it would boost his offense, huge failure:

JWalk in the #2 Hole
0 HR
2 RBI
.188 .235 .250 .485

A whole 8 games of ABs...using that logic, he should bat 5th or 7th, or 3rd

He is what he is...still young and still learning. Offensively and defensively.

How's it working out in the #2 hole?

8 games. Is that your line on the stand? How's he doing for the month of July and June? Bigger sample size showing regression.

Perhaps it was an opportunity to shake him out of his sub 800 last 2 months

Stupid move

But I get it, you're an Oli fan and always seem to come to his defense.

nope not a fan or a hater. A realist

How's JW been thru June and July

He’s hitting .271 with a .326 OBP and .437 SLG%. A .763 OPS. 35 RBI in 51 games (33 in 43 games before being moved to the 2 hole). Not great, not terrible. In the offseason if you said that’d be his slash line this season, I think 99.5% of the people would have been happy with it.

[82birds]

Has really taken off

has taken the DAY OFF
day after day after day.
Cardinal two-strike approach is laughable and sickening

[rockondlouie]

All in CT know my thought's on this since the days they wasted Goldy in the #2 hole and I went nuts.

You don't move the MLB leader in RBI's (at the break) to the #2 hole.

And if Oli thought it would boost his offense, huge failure:

JWalk in the #2 Hole
0 HR
2 RBI
.188 .235 .250 .485

A whole 8 games of ABs...using that logic, he should bat 5th or 7th, or 3rd

He is what he is...still young and still learning. Offensively and defensively.

How's it working out in the #2 hole?

8 games. Is that your line on the stand? How's he doing for the month of July and June? Bigger sample size showing regression.

Perhaps it was an opportunity to shake him out of his sub 800 last 2 months

Stupid move

But I get it, you're an Oli fan and always seem to come to his defense.

nope not a fan or a hater. A realist

How's JW been thru June and July

Meh'

Where have all the CT guys gone that wanted to give him a $200-250M L-T deal after the HR Derby?

[JuanAgosto]

The offense has gone stagnant. This club has too many below average bats in the lineup. After playing aggressively early in the season, they have reverted to station to station baseball. That is on Marmol. Its ok to steal a base. Hit & run is still allowed. Bunting might be a good idea occasionally. But no, lets stand up there hoping for a walk. Or swing wildly for the fences.

[RamFan08NY]

All in CT know my thought's on this since the days they wasted Goldy in the #2 hole and I went nuts.

You don't move the MLB leader in RBI's (at the break) to the #2 hole.

And if Oli thought it would boost his offense, huge failure:

JWalk in the #2 Hole
0 HR
2 RBI
.188 .235 .250 .485

A whole 8 games of ABs...using that logic, he should bat 5th or 7th, or 3rd

He is what he is...still young and still learning. Offensively and defensively.

The thing is, there was no justification to the switch. There should not have been an 8 game trial, at a lesser rbi position in the order. Not when hes leading all if MLB in rbi.

He was flailing. Look at June and July. Sub 800 OPS

He was still knocking in runs.

[EastCoastDave]

I think it boils down to this: the Cards have 2 hitting stars, Walker and Burley and/or Ivan. Burley doesn’t hit lefties well; Ivan is up and down. When they’re both on and Walker is cooking, Cards are a good team, they win games and are fun to watch. When Walker cools off, as is the case now, and the other two perform below expectations, we lose and lose a lot. What the Cards need is another star — someone who can hit .260-275, drive in 65-80 runs and blast 25-30 homers. For a while, I thought Gorman was going to be that player, but, man, was I wrong. Maybe JJ will be that player, but his average must be better. I don’t think a team can be successful with a leadoff hitter batting .228. Somehow the Cards must trade for either a third baseman or a center fielder who will be the other star, the .280, 30 homer, 80 RBI guy. Maybe that player is in the Memphis outfield. But Baez is hitting only about .250, so he may not be the guy.

[CCard]

Has really taken off since the resident genius decided to bat Walker 2 and Herrera 4.

NOT!

How many BFIB think that the resident genius came to this decision all in his own?

Or…
How many BFIB think that the resident genius asked his iPad about this brilliant stroke of genius?

It's not the batting order. You could pick them out of a hat. It's the personnel. Crooks, Church, Nootbaar, Blaze all are under performing. Or maybe they're performing normally. Either way, any opposing pitcher really only has to worry about Walker, JJ and Herrera. That's why it hurts if any of them slump (Walker right now).

You hit the mark- maybe they are performing to THEIR standard. If so, we are merely short talent. Another fall out from the past.

So. Need to shore up the players performance level. How?

Well, ownership could easily spend $100 million for upgrades to the roster. That would be a huge start. They could make a trade here or there if it makes the roster better and that would help. The prospect of losing and drafting our way to the top is why we snickered at Cincy, Pitt and for a long time the Cubs. Now the Cards ownership is pulling this "cheap affordable talent" bull. What team ever won a championship in the modern era without spend some decent money?

[Melville]

I don’t think it was a bad idea to try. You can stir the stew but it’s still the same until you add some new ingredients.

The sharp decline started when they began swapping out parts from the initial roster. All the moves seemed sensible and hard to argue so maybe just coincidental, but they haven’t been the same since.

Before they were better than the sum of their parts, afterwards they didn’t even equal the sum. Regression to the mean…or morale and the intangibles that some think don’t matter were severely impacted? Either way, the batting order doesn’t really matter.

"The sharp decline started when they began swapping out parts from the initial roster."
At the time, I warned everyone about the roster shuffle in early June.
I said the team was intentionally sacrificing defense, baserunning, and pitching for nothing more than "hope" the offense would improve.
I said that it was more likely that instead, everything - including the offense - would get worse.
Which is exactly what happened, of course.
As I alone have correctly understood and explained for several years, The Marmot has 2 huge flaws as a manager and will never improve.
1 - He does not trust his own players.
2 - He believes that it is he, not them, who wins games.
He is not capable of learning and changing.
Which leaves the players in the impossible position of outperforming his incompetence.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

[C-Unit]

I would have made the top 5 into something like this

2B Wetherholt
CF Church
RF Walker
1B Burleson
C Herrera

Please no, Church has a .266 OBP.

You're talking a lineup for a couple of games, in a season that matters more for player development. I'd take the old LaRussa approach keeping guys like Walker in the spot they were settled in at.

[Pura Vida]

I don’t think it was a bad idea to try. You can stir the stew but it’s still the same until you add some new ingredients.

The sharp decline started when they began swapping out parts from the initial roster. All the moves seemed sensible and hard to argue so maybe just coincidental, but they haven’t been the same since.

Before they were better than the sum of their parts, afterwards they didn’t even equal the sum. Regression to the mean…or morale and the intangibles that some think don’t matter were severely impacted? Either way, the batting order doesn’t really matter.

Yes, late May/early June were the major swappings, and they were never the same over achievers. To me, they had a more professional approach to the game. I'm sure, as human nature goes, the ones sitting down in Memphis want out of their contracts.

[RamFan08NY]

I would have made the top 5 into something like this

2B Wetherholt
CF Church
RF Walker
1B Burleson
C Herrera

Please no, Church has a .266 OBP.

You're talking a lineup for a couple of games, in a season that matters more for player development. I'd take the old LaRussa approach keeping guys like Walker in the spot they were settled in at.

Sounds too easy doesn't it?

[C-Unit]

I would have made the top 5 into something like this

2B Wetherholt
CF Church
RF Walker
1B Burleson
C Herrera

Please no, Church has a .266 OBP.

You're talking a lineup for a couple of games, in a season that matters more for player development. I'd take the old LaRussa approach keeping guys like Walker in the spot they were settled in at.

Sounds too easy doesn't it?

Or just put Nootbaar second... Winn? Crooks?
Yeah it would seem pretty easy to find a way to keep Walker 3rd or 4th.