Where have the Doubles gone?

[Futuregm2]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

[scoutyjones2]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

Where's JW's power gone? Hasn't hit a HR since the 9th

[Basil Shabazz]

Launch angle concentration has created more HRs, more Ks, and more flyouts. It has also created fewer doubles.

I am personally not a fan, as I think a guy with 40 doubles, 20 HRs, and a higher batting average is much more valuable than the 20 doubles, 30 HR guy with the lesser batting average and more Ks.

I feel this will revert over time. We saw it change right in front of us with Matt Carp. He went away from what made him GREAT in an attempt to hit more HRs.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

My position. When you don’t hit homeruns. We rank, where, near last. And you don’t hit doubles. And you dont crowd the bases with runners, you score little.

No way to sustain winning at this level.

[rockondlouie]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

Man I was just looking at that last night too!

The lack of HR and extra base power on this roster is shocking.

I especially was focused on JJW who thought would be an extra base machine, likely he will in his career but sure was surprised to see his low doubles total.

[sikeston bulldog2]

So our debate is- better team- one with lots of doubles, few homeruns; or bunch of homers, few doubles.

Then. I’d say a doubles heavy team will produce huge runs and runs scored. More consistent.

[Futuregm2]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

My position. When you don’t hit homeruns. We rank, where, near last. And you don’t hit doubles. And you dont crowd the bases with runners, you score little.

No way to sustain winning at this level.

Yea, we are 22nd with HRs, 28th with doubles, and 21st in triples.

Brewers rank 30th in HRs, but they are 1st in doubles and 8th in triples.

Dbacks are 28th in HRs, but they are 6th in doubles and tied for 1st in triples.

Nats are the best offense because they are 1st in HRs, 4th in doubles, and T-3rd in triples.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

My position. When you don’t hit homeruns. We rank, where, near last. And you don’t hit doubles. And you dont crowd the bases with runners, you score little.

No way to sustain winning at this level.

Yea, we are 22nd with HRs, 28th with doubles, and 21st in triples.

Brewers rank 30th in HRs, but they are 1st in doubles and 8th in triples.

Dbacks are 28th in HRs, but they are 6th in doubles and tied for 1st in triples.

Nats are the best offense because they are 1st in HRs, 4th in doubles, and T-3rd in triples.

Thank you. I bet the Brewers, with few homeruns, still lead with runs and risp. And RBI’s.

[RamFan08NY]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

Where's JW's power gone? Hasn't hit a HR since the 9th

Hitting 2nd, with nobody on base. Won't see a pitch to hit.

[scoutyjones2]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

Where's JW's power gone? Hasn't hit a HR since the 9th

Hitting 2nd, with nobody on base. Won't see a pitch to hit.

Baloney.

[rockondlouie]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

Where's JW's power gone? Hasn't hit a HR since the 9th

Hitting 2nd, with nobody on base. Won't see a pitch to hit.

Baloney.

Agreed

He has Bumbles behind him 70+% of the time who's had as good a season as Walker:

Walker
22 HR
77 RBI's
.283 .345 .504 .849

Bumbles
15 HR
71 RBI's
.285 .345 .464 .810

[icon]

Through 107 games the Cardinals as a team have 144 doubles, which is 3rd worst in baseball. The Brewers lead baseball with 198 doubles.

Last year the Cardinals ranked 10th in baseball with 264.

When the Cardinals were good in the early 2010s they were routinely in the top 5-10 in doubles. Since 2017 it became a thing of the past. 2022 and 2025 are the only years they ranked top 10. Most of the other years they were bottom of the league, like 2026.

As we get close to August,
Wetherholt only has 10 doubles
Winn only has 13 doubles
Our 3B have only combined for 11 doubles this season

Together that is 34 doubles from 3 positions. And CF is even worse with 9.

So many people on CT just want to talk about improving the pitching. The hitting needs just as much improvement.

[Wattage]

Launch angle concentration has created more HRs, more Ks, and more flyouts. It has also created fewer doubles.

I am personally not a fan, as I think a guy with 40 doubles, 20 HRs, and a higher batting average is much more valuable than the 20 doubles, 30 HR guy with the lesser batting average and more Ks.

I feel this will revert over time. We saw it change right in front of us with Matt Carp. He went away from what made him GREAT in an attempt to hit more HRs.

i do t think cardinals rank that hifh in homeruns either though

but the narrative with carp that you just said is completely [nonsense].


carp didnt change his approach after his 2013 .318/.392/.481/.873 ops season with 55 doubles and 11 homeruns

he kept the same appraoch the next season in 2014 and it resulted in
272/.375/.375/ .750 with 8 homeruns and 33 doubles.

people omit that 2014 season from their heads and keep saying he changed his approach after that 2013 season. that isnt what happened. his numbers (while not bad but not elite)tanked in 2014 and he had to adjust his approach.

in 2015, he changed his approach and hit .272/.365/.505/.871 with 44 doubles and 28 homeruns. he actually hit more doubles that year than in 2014 AND more homeruns. he was right to change his approach. he wasnt gonna be able to replicate 2013 whi h is why he adjusted. he continued to hit more homeruns and MORE DOUBLES in all of the years of 2015-2018 than he did in the year of 2014.

stop with the false narrative that carp had an awesome 2013 then just chose to abandon that approach for homeruns and not that he had a much down 2014 which caused him to change his approach

[Basil Shabazz]

Launch angle concentration has created more HRs, more Ks, and more flyouts. It has also created fewer doubles.

I am personally not a fan, as I think a guy with 40 doubles, 20 HRs, and a higher batting average is much more valuable than the 20 doubles, 30 HR guy with the lesser batting average and more Ks.

I feel this will revert over time. We saw it change right in front of us with Matt Carp. He went away from what made him GREAT in an attempt to hit more HRs.

i do t think cardinals rank that hifh in homeruns either though

but the narrative with carp that you just said is completely [nonsense].


carp didnt change his approach after his 2013 .318/.392/.481/.873 ops season with 55 doubles and 11 homeruns

he kept the same appraoch the next season in 2014 and it resulted in
272/.375/.375/ .750 with 8 homeruns and 33 doubles.

people omit that 2014 season from their heads and keep saying he changed his approach after that 2013 season. that isnt what happened. his numbers (while not bad but not elite)tanked in 2014 and he had to adjust his approach.

in 2015, he changed his approach and hit .272/.365/.505/.871 with 44 doubles and 28 homeruns. he actually hit more doubles that year than in 2014 AND more homeruns. he was right to change his approach. he wasnt gonna be able to replicate 2013 whi h is why he adjusted. he continued to hit more homeruns and MORE DOUBLES in all of the years of 2015-2018 than he did in the year of 2014.

stop with the false narrative that carp had an awesome 2013 then just chose to abandon that approach for homeruns and not that he had a much down 2014 which caused him to change his approach

Nowhere in my post did I say when Carpenter changed his approach. That's an argument you created on your own.

My point was much simpler: as Carpenter's career progressed, he became more focused on hitting for power. That's not a controversial statement—it's something Carpenter himself has discussed over the years. It's also well documented that his back issues affected his bat speed later in his career, which further changed the type of hitter he became.

So let's not invent arguments that weren't made. If you want to disagree with my opinion about launch angle and today's offensive environment, that's perfectly fine. But accusing me of pushing a "false narrative" over something I never claimed isn't productive.

Let's stick to responding to what was actually written rather than arguing against something that wasn't.