Seattle

[cosmo.kramer]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

It absolutely does not. Not a single team is going to pay a dime more for a player because they were an all star.

Your opinion and always respect it JMo

Respect to you too. Can we at least agree those Seattle dogs are delicious?

Maybe somebody could look up Herrera’s trade value before and after the All-Star game. I bet it hasn’t changed either.

Why don't you look it up? Not smart enough?

Are BTV's behind a paywall now? I gave up going to a BTV site that wanted subscriptions. Maybe that was a scam link.

None of the BTV stuff is all that reliable anyway

[JohnnyMO]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

It absolutely does not. Not a single team is going to pay a dime more for a player because they were an all star.

Your opinion and always respect it JMo

Respect to you too. Can we at least agree those Seattle dogs are delicious?

Maybe somebody could look up Herrera’s trade value before and after the All-Star game. I bet it hasn’t changed either.

Why don't you look it up? Not smart enough?

Are BTV's behind a paywall now? I gave up going to a BTV site that wanted subscriptions. Maybe that was a scam link.

None of the BTV stuff is all that reliable anyway

Not reliable how? What trades can you name where the players traded didn’t roughly line up according to BTV. Soto to Padres and Betts to Dodgers are two. You’ll struggle to find many more

[JuanAgosto]

Dance dummy. I can’t see what you are saying. This will be my last reply to you in any manner whatsoever. I do hope you get help.
If you spend all your waking hours, just waiting to reply to me, there is something definitely missing in your life.
I do wish you the best.
Bye

More lies from the forum fool. A true idiot narcissist. Your life is so pathetic you have to go on a forum to be a jerk to others. Yet you cant take it when someone calls out your nonsense. Such a sad, sorry, little guy you are. Go back to your ignore safe space.

[Bomber1]

His BTV peaked before the break at 16 and has fallen slightly post asg to 15.8.

Looking at mlb proven ace or number two type pitchers wit three plus years of control they tend to be anywhere from 3 to 5 times more valuable than IH. If you believe btv is relatively accurate and I do.

Before the AS break, Herrera's BTV was +20.9, and like posted above, is now at +15.8

Hit 2 HR's tonight Ivan, and it might be right back up to the +20M range, lol.

I didn't remember it getting that high but I'm sure you're right. I'm not sure BTV adjusts that quickly, but I'll take a multi-homer game or two...I have him on my fantasy roster .

Except in the case of injury, I just don't subscribe to the idea that an experienced player with a track record has a 20% variance in their trade value in a two week span based on performance. Herrera, or anyone else.

BTV's are very fluid if you track them weekly. They are also estimates, so one might as well round them off, and only use them as a guide to try and get in the ballpark. Here's one for you, Bobby Witt Jr. was +275.6 just a few weeks ago. Last I saw it last week had dropped to +231.4. Still a crazy high number, but a +40M plus drop, and don't ask me why.
Even after the Cards had missed on trading O'Neill at his peak value, he had rebounded enough for a short period a year or 2 later where it went up to the low +30 range. Then he slumped, and missed some time but it quickly dropped to single digits. Carlson's had a great value (+60's) only to watch it crash. Flaherty had a crazy high BTV (+120) at one time that crashed. IF the Cards had cashed in just at their median type value, instead of their near rock bottom, the Cards likely look a lot better the last few years.
At least the Cards cashed in on Bader to some extent when he was in the +8 range, but he could have brought about 3 times that with better timing.

Sorry if it’s beating a dead horse but the above is just more proof of John Mozeliak’s incompetence. Add in Alex Reyes for even more proof.

[cosmo.kramer]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

It absolutely does not. Not a single team is going to pay a dime more for a player because they were an all star.

Your opinion and always respect it JMo

Respect to you too. Can we at least agree those Seattle dogs are delicious?

Maybe somebody could look up Herrera’s trade value before and after the All-Star game. I bet it hasn’t changed either.

Why don't you look it up? Not smart enough?

Are BTV's behind a paywall now? I gave up going to a BTV site that wanted subscriptions. Maybe that was a scam link.

None of the BTV stuff is all that reliable anyway

Not reliable how? What trades can you name where the players traded didn’t roughly line up according to BTV. Soto to Padres and Betts to Dodgers are two. You’ll struggle to find many more

Literally the most recent trade they posted on twitter

Baseball Trade Values
@BaseballValues
Jul 26
Today the #RedSox reportedly acquired IF Curtis Mead ($11.4M surplus trade value) from the #Nationals in exchange for LHP Connelly Early ($30.4M).

The deal is rejected by our model as an overpay by Boston

I'm sure it's not difficult to find more

[WaltsSuccessor]

So on the BTV site, there's a proposed trade involving; Lazaro Montes +23.1, Emerson Hancock +24.3 and Luis Castillo -16.1 = +31.3 going to the Cardinals.
Montes is similar to our Joshua Baez. Corner OF with plus power.
Emerson Hancock is pitching for Seattle like a No. 2 SP this year. Is he for real, or more like a #3 or 4? Don't know, but looks like a solid SP with control thru 2030.
Luis Castillo has the remaining of this year and next year left on his contract, thus his negative value. He's also not pitching great, but if he can return to previous form, he could be really good. All of a sudden, you have a Castillo, McGreevy, Hancock, Pallante, Mathews and Leahy SP rotation going into 2027. Opens up 1B for Herrera, with possibly Rainiel on the doorstep.
They had the Cards returning Herrera, Mautz, Hjerpe, Padilla, Odle and Hansen. Forget that, instead insert Burleson who all by himself might come close to +31.3. To balance add May, and/or Noot, and/or cash, Idk. Seattle wants to win now with established MLB players helping their 26 man roster.
An outfield of Montes, Baez and Walker might hit 100 HR's a season. Btw, don't ask how many K's that might correlate to.

The Mariners have a really nice starting rotation with Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Hancock, and Miller. They are in a quandary of go for it or pause and reset for next year.

They have Anderson coming. Sloan behind him. Arroyo just reached AAA. Donovan could/ should be healthy in 2027.

JDW says just buy the Mariners pitching right now. Effectively take them out of the Sell market The Cardinals could turn around and Sell pitching to other contenders.

It might work.

Not sure if this is the move, but I like the thinking. The Cards payroll is so below normal levels that I surely hope they can pull off some maneuver like this to take back an underwater contract (with some bounce back potential) in order to obtain better prospects/players with control in whatever deadline deals they make.

They have the payroll capacity. Use it to our advantage to leverage better deals out of other teams that are desperate to get under the luxury tax or are trying to go for it but can't take on more payroll.

Just reported today that the Rangers need catching up but can't afford to take on any money at the deadline. Perfect example/opportunity to use our payroll space to take advantage of a desperate trade partner.

Kyle Higashioka is their primary C (currently hurt) making $6.75m on the final year of his deal. Junis making $2.75m as pending FA reliever. Several other minor pieces making between $1-2m this year before reaching FA this offseason.

We could afford to take back any combination of those players in return for better prospects from the Rangers for a catcher, May, and whatever else they need. Not going to get Sebastian Walcott, but surely they have someone useful that's not forever away from MLB.

Edit: It does look like their farm system royally stinks after Walcott. General concept still stands!