Seattle

[ICCFIM2]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

I don't disagree with you. The problem with prospects is they tend to be relatively over valued by BTV and everyone else. I don't think I Herrera will retrieve a TOR starter with 3 years of control. We have enough pitching prospects in the pipeline, I am really more interested in hitting prospects that are close to ML ready. If you look at Seattle they have Lazaro Montes, he strikes out more than Gorman in AAA and has a BTV of $23.1. They have Michael Arroyo who is in AAA and has great bat to ball skills, but is a 2B OF. Hit BTV is 12.3 and Herrera is 16.2. To be honest, if we trade Herrera I want both of those guys in return. I will even ship the Mariners a reliever as part of the deal. I know the BTV numbers don't support the deal. But, if they want a proven ML AB, they have to overpay in prospects to get it.

Montes could be a bust. Arroyo will likely hit for sure at the ML level. The issue is whether one of our infielders can play 3B unless we think Blaze Jordan is the answer. The point of the trade is the Cards would have both Josh Baez and Montes ready for the OF in 2027. Hoping one or both stick. Arroyo will be the plug in guy line drive hitter.

On Arroyo, what if you ended up moving Wetherholt to 3B next year and then put Arroyo at 2B? I am not sure I would make the move on Wetherholt yet, but for next year that could be a possibility. They also have Felnin Celesten who just reached AA at 20 after hitting .314/.409/.534 in A+. He’s a SS though. Seattle has an interesting system.

I was hinting at the move of Wetherholdt to 3B, but every time I said it in the past, I got flamed badly. 3B are in short supply all around MLB. It would have to be a 2027 move, not this year.

The Mariners have a great system and have been stingy parting with any top 5 prospects from their system in the past. Celesten is a huge high upside prospect, but probably at least 2 if not 3 years away. I want the Cardinals to contend ASAP. So if we get prospects back for an established ML player, they have to be 2027 ML ETA. It also has to be a prospect value over pay to get my attention. Too many prospects wash out. So I want 2 of them back if they are getting a ML player with 3 years of control.

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

I don't disagree with you. The problem with prospects is they tend to be relatively over valued by BTV and everyone else. I don't think I Herrera will retrieve a TOR starter with 3 years of control. We have enough pitching prospects in the pipeline, I am really more interested in hitting prospects that are close to ML ready. If you look at Seattle they have Lazaro Montes, he strikes out more than Gorman in AAA and has a BTV of $23.1. They have Michael Arroyo who is in AAA and has great bat to ball skills, but is a 2B OF. Hit BTV is 12.3 and Herrera is 16.2. To be honest, if we trade Herrera I want both of those guys in return. I will even ship the Mariners a reliever as part of the deal. I know the BTV numbers don't support the deal. But, if they want a proven ML AB, they have to overpay in prospects to get it.

Montes could be a bust. Arroyo will likely hit for sure at the ML level. The issue is whether one of our infielders can play 3B unless we think Blaze Jordan is the answer. The point of the trade is the Cards would have both Josh Baez and Montes ready for the OF in 2027. Hoping one or both stick. Arroyo will be the plug in guy line drive hitter.

Agreed

I would NOT accept prospects in an trade involving I. Herrera

He's too good a hitter to accept anything less than a near FOTR (re: #2) starting pitching w/control or an upgrade at 3rd Base.

[JohnnyMO]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

It absolutely does not. Not a single team is going to pay a dime more for a player because they were an all star.

[JDW]

So on the BTV site, there's a proposed trade involving; Lazaro Montes +23.1, Emerson Hancock +24.3 and Luis Castillo -16.1 = +31.3 going to the Cardinals.
Montes is similar to our Joshua Baez. Corner OF with plus power.
Emerson Hancock is pitching for Seattle like a No. 2 SP this year. Is he for real, or more like a #3 or 4? Don't know, but looks like a solid SP with control thru 2030.
Luis Castillo has the remaining of this year and next year left on his contract, thus his negative value. He's also not pitching great, but if he can return to previous form, he could be really good. All of a sudden, you have a Castillo, McGreevy, Hancock, Pallante, Mathews and Leahy SP rotation going into 2027. Opens up 1B for Herrera, with possibly Rainiel on the doorstep.
They had the Cards returning Herrera, Mautz, Hjerpe, Padilla, Odle and Hansen. Forget that, instead insert Burleson who all by himself might come close to +31.3. To balance add May, and/or Noot, and/or cash, Idk. Seattle wants to win now with established MLB players helping their 26 man roster.
An outfield of Montes, Baez and Walker might hit 100 HR's a season. Btw, don't ask how many K's that might correlate to.

[JohnnyMO]

That hot dog they make with cream cheese is good.

[alw80]

It's wild that we could be selling off to a team like Seattle that is currently 52-54 and 1.5 games worse than we are on the season. What is going on in the AL and how is a team with as much talent as Seattle has 52-54?

Parity is running rampant in MLB.

[RunSup]

You won't pry their best pitching prospects Anderson or Sloan. Arroyo and Montes were bandied about last off season.

Montes questionable hit tool was something to shy away from. But JDW makes an argument for a 100 HR outfield. Probably 425+ K's there too.

Arroyo was attractive SS /2B but we'd want him to play 3B. Just 5'8" but with good bat. But wonder why the Mariners just don't call up the RH bat

They drafted Ace Reese with a nice LH bat.

They have had success in the international market. Gio Prio looks like a good CF. The same age as Trevor Condon.

Can look across for pitchers. But the Donovan trade may have picked them over.

[ShakeyWalton]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

An "all-star DH" doesn't move the needle whatsoever.

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

It absolutely does not. Not a single team is going to pay a dime more for a player because they were an all star.

Your opinion and always respect it JMo

[JohnnyMO]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

It absolutely does not. Not a single team is going to pay a dime more for a player because they were an all star.

Your opinion and always respect it JMo

Respect to you too. Can we at least agree those Seattle dogs are delicious?

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't trade I. Herrera unless the return was a major league, near FOTR starter with three years of control.

Cardinals finally have an all star DH, not willing to give him away for prospects.

You may as well say you wouldn’t trade Herrera at all because that is way too much. There is no rumored available top of the rotation starter with 3 years of control. The closest is Joe Ryan who only has one year of control and his trade value is currently about three times Herrera’s.

That’s just way way too much to expect from IH. Being named an all star replacement because he was the best player from a list of poor options that had enough at bats as DH doesn’t suddenly triple his value.

Okay

I wouldn't trade Herrera at all

Prior to this season he was a mid 120's wRC+, that has great value!

Now you may think he didn't deserve it but he's also now an all-star DH, that too adds value.

And of curse I said "near FOTR starter" (re: a low level #2), didn't say "FOTR" starter (re: #1).

I wouldn't deal him for anything less pitching wise.

It absolutely does not. Not a single team is going to pay a dime more for a player because they were an all star.

Your opinion and always respect it JMo

Respect to you too. Can we at least agree those Seattle dogs are delicious?

[RunSup]

So on the BTV site, there's a proposed trade involving; Lazaro Montes +23.1, Emerson Hancock +24.3 and Luis Castillo -16.1 = +31.3 going to the Cardinals.
Montes is similar to our Joshua Baez. Corner OF with plus power.
Emerson Hancock is pitching for Seattle like a No. 2 SP this year. Is he for real, or more like a #3 or 4? Don't know, but looks like a solid SP with control thru 2030.
Luis Castillo has the remaining of this year and next year left on his contract, thus his negative value. He's also not pitching great, but if he can return to previous form, he could be really good. All of a sudden, you have a Castillo, McGreevy, Hancock, Pallante, Mathews and Leahy SP rotation going into 2027. Opens up 1B for Herrera, with possibly Rainiel on the doorstep.
They had the Cards returning Herrera, Mautz, Hjerpe, Padilla, Odle and Hansen. Forget that, instead insert Burleson who all by himself might come close to +31.3. To balance add May, and/or Noot, and/or cash, Idk. Seattle wants to win now with established MLB players helping their 26 man roster.
An outfield of Montes, Baez and Walker might hit 100 HR's a season. Btw, don't ask how many K's that might correlate to.

The Mariners have a really nice starting rotation with Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Hancock, and Miller. They are in a quandary of go for it or pause and reset for next year.

They have Anderson coming. Sloan behind him. Arroyo just reached AAA. Donovan could/ should be healthy in 2027.

JDW says just buy the Mariners pitching right now. Effectively take them out of the Sell market The Cardinals could turn around and Sell pitching to other contenders.

It might work.

[JDW]

So on the BTV site, there's a proposed trade involving; Lazaro Montes +23.1, Emerson Hancock +24.3 and Luis Castillo -16.1 = +31.3 going to the Cardinals.
Montes is similar to our Joshua Baez. Corner OF with plus power.
Emerson Hancock is pitching for Seattle like a No. 2 SP this year. Is he for real, or more like a #3 or 4? Don't know, but looks like a solid SP with control thru 2030.
Luis Castillo has the remaining of this year and next year left on his contract, thus his negative value. He's also not pitching great, but if he can return to previous form, he could be really good. All of a sudden, you have a Castillo, McGreevy, Hancock, Pallante, Mathews and Leahy SP rotation going into 2027. Opens up 1B for Herrera, with possibly Rainiel on the doorstep.
They had the Cards returning Herrera, Mautz, Hjerpe, Padilla, Odle and Hansen. Forget that, instead insert Burleson who all by himself might come close to +31.3. To balance add May, and/or Noot, and/or cash, Idk. Seattle wants to win now with established MLB players helping their 26 man roster.
An outfield of Montes, Baez and Walker might hit 100 HR's a season. Btw, don't ask how many K's that might correlate to.

The Mariners have a really nice starting rotation with Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Hancock, and Miller. They are in a quandary of go for it or pause and reset for next year.

They have Anderson coming. Sloan behind him. Arroyo just reached AAA. Donovan could/ should be healthy in 2027.

JDW says just buy the Mariners pitching right now. Effectively take them out of the Sell market The Cardinals could turn around and Sell pitching to other contenders.

It might work.

So I don't know what Arroyo's BTV is, or his ETA, but switching him in for Montes makes more sense to me, and I'd rather have a plus defensive CF'er in the middle of 2 power bats in the corner spots.
Arroyo, Castillo and Hancock. Gives the SP rotation some depth and a veteran presence. Maybe Arroyo fits at 3B for the Cards, which would be great. Yes, the Cards would have to open up wallet just a little for Castillo.
Blaze can shift to more 1B time with Herrera, but could still give the 3B position some depth.

[WaltsSuccessor]

So on the BTV site, there's a proposed trade involving; Lazaro Montes +23.1, Emerson Hancock +24.3 and Luis Castillo -16.1 = +31.3 going to the Cardinals.
Montes is similar to our Joshua Baez. Corner OF with plus power.
Emerson Hancock is pitching for Seattle like a No. 2 SP this year. Is he for real, or more like a #3 or 4? Don't know, but looks like a solid SP with control thru 2030.
Luis Castillo has the remaining of this year and next year left on his contract, thus his negative value. He's also not pitching great, but if he can return to previous form, he could be really good. All of a sudden, you have a Castillo, McGreevy, Hancock, Pallante, Mathews and Leahy SP rotation going into 2027. Opens up 1B for Herrera, with possibly Rainiel on the doorstep.
They had the Cards returning Herrera, Mautz, Hjerpe, Padilla, Odle and Hansen. Forget that, instead insert Burleson who all by himself might come close to +31.3. To balance add May, and/or Noot, and/or cash, Idk. Seattle wants to win now with established MLB players helping their 26 man roster.
An outfield of Montes, Baez and Walker might hit 100 HR's a season. Btw, don't ask how many K's that might correlate to.

The Mariners have a really nice starting rotation with Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Hancock, and Miller. They are in a quandary of go for it or pause and reset for next year.

They have Anderson coming. Sloan behind him. Arroyo just reached AAA. Donovan could/ should be healthy in 2027.

JDW says just buy the Mariners pitching right now. Effectively take them out of the Sell market The Cardinals could turn around and Sell pitching to other contenders.

It might work.

Not sure if this is the move, but I like the thinking. The Cards payroll is so below normal levels that I surely hope they can pull off some maneuver like this to take back an underwater contract (with some bounce back potential) in order to obtain better prospects/players with control in whatever deadline deals they make.

They have the payroll capacity. Use it to our advantage to leverage better deals out of other teams that are desperate to get under the luxury tax or are trying to go for it but can't take on more payroll.

[RunSup]

So on the BTV site, there's a proposed trade involving; Lazaro Montes +23.1, Emerson Hancock +24.3 and Luis Castillo -16.1 = +31.3 going to the Cardinals.
Montes is similar to our Joshua Baez. Corner OF with plus power.
Emerson Hancock is pitching for Seattle like a No. 2 SP this year. Is he for real, or more like a #3 or 4? Don't know, but looks like a solid SP with control thru 2030.
Luis Castillo has the remaining of this year and next year left on his contract, thus his negative value. He's also not pitching great, but if he can return to previous form, he could be really good. All of a sudden, you have a Castillo, McGreevy, Hancock, Pallante, Mathews and Leahy SP rotation going into 2027. Opens up 1B for Herrera, with possibly Rainiel on the doorstep.
They had the Cards returning Herrera, Mautz, Hjerpe, Padilla, Odle and Hansen. Forget that, instead insert Burleson who all by himself might come close to +31.3. To balance add May, and/or Noot, and/or cash, Idk. Seattle wants to win now with established MLB players helping their 26 man roster.
An outfield of Montes, Baez and Walker might hit 100 HR's a season. Btw, don't ask how many K's that might correlate to.

The Mariners have a really nice starting rotation with Gilbert, Kirby, Woo, Hancock, and Miller. They are in a quandary of go for it or pause and reset for next year.

They have Anderson coming. Sloan behind him. Arroyo just reached AAA. Donovan could/ should be healthy in 2027.

JDW says just buy the Mariners pitching right now. Effectively take them out of the Sell market The Cardinals could turn around and Sell pitching to other contenders.

It might work.

So I don't know what Arroyo's BTV is, or his ETA, but switching him in for Montes makes more sense to me, and I'd rather have a plus defensive CF'er in the middle of 2 power bats in the corner spots.
Arroyo, Castillo and Hancock. Gives the SP rotation some depth and a veteran presence. Maybe Arroyo fits at 3B for the Cards, which would be great. Yes, the Cards would have to open up wallet just a little for Castillo.
Blaze can shift to more 1B time with Herrera, but could still give the 3B position some depth.

Yeah well I just was looking for scouting reports on Arroyo's defense. He is 2B / LF. Doesn't have arm or speed for CF. Doesn't have the arm for 3B.

Definitely a bat first prospect. Just adequate at 2B.

If you see other reports to the contrary, drop them in here. This was a quick summary firm Google AI. Hallucinations possible.