Serious Managerial Question

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Strummer Jones
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by Strummer Jones »

Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
I would argue that accountability is (mostly) happening this year.

One third of our starting line-up has significantly changed. No more Gorman, no more Scott, a lot less Pages.

No more Saggese, either. Two of these guys, Scott and Pages are good clubhouse guys from what I can tell. Gorman got the treatment that we all wanted from DeJong for a long time.

Won't argue with you on the scripted changes, but I will say that last year's bullpen moves were pretty scripted. It just flew under the radar because that year's bullpen wasn't absolutely terrible like this year's.
JuanAgosto
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by JuanAgosto »

Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:01 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
I would argue that accountability is (mostly) happening this year.

One third of our starting line-up has significantly changed. No more Gorman, no more Scott, a lot less Pages.

No more Saggese, either. Two of these guys, Scott and Pages are good clubhouse guys from what I can tell. Gorman got the treatment that we all wanted from DeJong for a long time.

Won't argue with you on the scripted changes, but I will say that last year's bullpen moves were pretty scripted. It just flew under the radar because that year's bullpen wasn't absolutely terrible like this year's.
I think a lot of the game decisions are scripted.
Basil Shabazz
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by Basil Shabazz »

Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:01 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
I would argue that accountability is (mostly) happening this year.

One third of our starting line-up has significantly changed. No more Gorman, no more Scott, a lot less Pages.

No more Saggese, either. Two of these guys, Scott and Pages are good clubhouse guys from what I can tell. Gorman got the treatment that we all wanted from DeJong for a long time.

Won't argue with you on the scripted changes, but I will say that last year's bullpen moves were pretty scripted. It just flew under the radar because that year's bullpen wasn't absolutely terrible like this year's.
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
cardinalsfever44
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by cardinalsfever44 »

Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:13 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:01 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
I would argue that accountability is (mostly) happening this year.

One third of our starting line-up has significantly changed. No more Gorman, no more Scott, a lot less Pages.

No more Saggese, either. Two of these guys, Scott and Pages are good clubhouse guys from what I can tell. Gorman got the treatment that we all wanted from DeJong for a long time.

Won't argue with you on the scripted changes, but I will say that last year's bullpen moves were pretty scripted. It just flew under the radar because that year's bullpen wasn't absolutely terrible like this year's.
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
So if your argument is that Bloom has forcefully taken some of the tools out of Oli's toolbox in recent months, then why is the team tanking now that those tools are gone?
Basil Shabazz
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by Basil Shabazz »

cardinalsfever44 wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:15 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:13 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:01 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
I would argue that accountability is (mostly) happening this year.

One third of our starting line-up has significantly changed. No more Gorman, no more Scott, a lot less Pages.

No more Saggese, either. Two of these guys, Scott and Pages are good clubhouse guys from what I can tell. Gorman got the treatment that we all wanted from DeJong for a long time.

Won't argue with you on the scripted changes, but I will say that last year's bullpen moves were pretty scripted. It just flew under the radar because that year's bullpen wasn't absolutely terrible like this year's.
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
So if your argument is that Bloom has forcefully taken some of the tools out of Oli's toolbox in recent months, then why is the team tanking now that those tools are gone?
The bullpen hasn't held up, Herrera, Walker, Noot all slumped at the same time. It is not like you are demoting those three. The pitching was always heading toward a regression to the mean. This team was never built to be a playoff team. It was always a rebuilding year.
scoutyjones2
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by scoutyjones2 »

Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:13 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:01 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
I would argue that accountability is (mostly) happening this year.

One third of our starting line-up has significantly changed. No more Gorman, no more Scott, a lot less Pages.

No more Saggese, either. Two of these guys, Scott and Pages are good clubhouse guys from what I can tell. Gorman got the treatment that we all wanted from DeJong for a long time.

Won't argue with you on the scripted changes, but I will say that last year's bullpen moves were pretty scripted. It just flew under the radar because that year's bullpen wasn't absolutely terrible like this year's.
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
This year is playing out how they stated.

This whole season was predicated on seeing what these players can do. Jagasse, Argo and KKorn all found out...up steps Church, Crooks, Blaze.

Ya think carrying 3 catchers doesn't hamstring a manager? interesting that L'chaim left Pages on the roster

Since when do managers call up or move players down?
Basil Shabazz
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by Basil Shabazz »

scoutyjones2 wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:26 pm
Since when do managers call up or move players down?
A respected manager that is solid in his standing and not nervous about his job or status has a strong working relationship w/ his GM/POBO and will "demand" certain moves to be made on the roster he has to manage. TLR was well known for working with Walt on the roster and putting the pressure on MO to make roster moves that he felt were beneficial to winning.
JuanAgosto
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by JuanAgosto »

scoutyjones2 wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:26 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:13 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:01 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
I would argue that accountability is (mostly) happening this year.

One third of our starting line-up has significantly changed. No more Gorman, no more Scott, a lot less Pages.

No more Saggese, either. Two of these guys, Scott and Pages are good clubhouse guys from what I can tell. Gorman got the treatment that we all wanted from DeJong for a long time.

Won't argue with you on the scripted changes, but I will say that last year's bullpen moves were pretty scripted. It just flew under the radar because that year's bullpen wasn't absolutely terrible like this year's.
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
This year is playing out how they stated.

This whole season was predicated on seeing what these players can do. Jagasse, Argo and KKorn all found out...up steps Church, Crooks, Blaze.

Ya think carrying 3 catchers doesn't hamstring a manager? interesting that L'chaim left Pages on the roster

Since when do managers call up or move players down?
Most of what you say is accurate. But I do not believe for one second that Pages being here is solely a Bloom decision. Pedro is Oli's guy. No doubt Marmol lobbied for him.
rockondlouie
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by rockondlouie »

Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:13 pm
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
+1
JuanAgosto
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by JuanAgosto »

rockondlouie wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:34 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:13 pm
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
+1
Bloom may have indeed limited Lil oli's chances to do ridiculous things.
rockondlouie
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by rockondlouie »

JuanAgosto wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:37 pm
rockondlouie wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:34 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:13 pm
I'd argue those personnel changes were driven much more by Chaim Bloom than by Oli Marmol.

Bloom has made it pretty clear that the organization is shifting toward evaluating and developing the next core. When Bloom said Jimmy Crooks was going to play, that effectively reduced the playing time of one of Oli's apparent favorites, Pedro Pages. Likewise, moving on from Gorman, scaling back Scott, and taking Saggese out of the equation all came from roster construction decisions above the manager.

In other words, Bloom has taken some of the struggling pieces out of Oli's toolbox.

The real question is this: if Bloom hadn't forced those changes through roster decisions, would Oli have made them on his own? Based on what we've seen over the past few seasons, I'm skeptical. Oli has shown a tendency to stick with veterans and players he trusts for longer than their performance warrants.

So while I agree there's more accountability on the field this year, I'm not convinced it's because Oli suddenly changed his managerial philosophy. I think the front office changed the roster in a way that left him with fewer alternatives.
+1
Bloom may have indeed limited Lil oli's chances to do ridiculous things.
It didn't take him long in the POBO chair to make some big moves Basil outlined above.

I think he knows Oli is limited in his managerial capabilities so he's taken away players Oli was still writing into the daily lineup.

But he also understands BDWJr's position regarding keeping him around during these two years (2026-2027) of the rebuild and then the CBA lockout possibility.
scoutyjones2
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by scoutyjones2 »

Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:29 pm
scoutyjones2 wrote: 27 Jul 2026 12:26 pm
Since when do managers call up or move players down?
A respected manager that is solid in his standing and not nervous about his job or status has a strong working relationship w/ his GM/POBO and will "demand" certain moves to be made on the roster he has to manage. TLR was well known for working with Walt on the roster and putting the pressure on MO to make roster moves that he felt were beneficial to winning.
I believe Oli works with L'chaim. Not demands but shares his input
Hoosier59
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by Hoosier59 »

Basil Shabazz wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:48 am Bottom line......

I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.

To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.

It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.

I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.

From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.

None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
My thoughts EXACTLY!
WeWentBlues0819
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by WeWentBlues0819 »

Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:54 am Hard to blame Oli on the bullpen when there's probably only one pitcher in it that I truly trust. And O'Brien being consistently inconsistent.
Bullpen wouldn't be as big of an issue if he didn't due dumb[ash] things like use 7 pitchers in a blowout win.

He gassed literally everyone in the bullpen because of his OCD need to switch pitchers. He touches himself to micromanaging.

As anyone could have predicted, with a gassed BP that wasn't very good to start with, july and august were going to be rough.
Strummer Jones
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by Strummer Jones »

WeWentBlues0819 wrote: 27 Jul 2026 15:57 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:54 am Hard to blame Oli on the bullpen when there's probably only one pitcher in it that I truly trust. And O'Brien being consistently inconsistent.
Bullpen wouldn't be as big of an issue if he didn't due dumb[ash] things like use 7 pitchers in a blowout win.

He gassed literally everyone in the bullpen because of his OCD need to switch pitchers. He touches himself to micromanaging.

As anyone could have predicted, with a gassed BP that wasn't very good to start with, july and august were going to be rough.
Our bullpen was doomed from the start. Any bullpen that has Roycroft in it to begin the season is not a good bullpen.

They've been terrible since game 1/162. That's a fact.
JuanAgosto
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Re: Serious Managerial Question

Post by JuanAgosto »

Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 16:03 pm
WeWentBlues0819 wrote: 27 Jul 2026 15:57 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: 27 Jul 2026 11:54 am Hard to blame Oli on the bullpen when there's probably only one pitcher in it that I truly trust. And O'Brien being consistently inconsistent.
Bullpen wouldn't be as big of an issue if he didn't due dumb[ash] things like use 7 pitchers in a blowout win.

He gassed literally everyone in the bullpen because of his OCD need to switch pitchers. He touches himself to micromanaging.

As anyone could have predicted, with a gassed BP that wasn't very good to start with, july and august were going to be rough.
Our bullpen was doomed from the start. Any bullpen that has Roycroft in it to begin the season is not a good bullpen.

They've been terrible since game 1/162. That's a fact.
Svanson was good enough last year the team had big plans for his 2026. Unfortunately, hes been really bad. Hope he gets better.