Chitownredbird wrote: ↑26 Jul 2026 22:31 pm
IMO he’s here until Bloom thinks he’s given him a roster that should win but Oli continues with his mismanagement of the pen and idiotic lineups. So probably next year or 28.
I saw where Jeff Jones reported today's lineup was a mistake. That Herrerea was supposed to bat 2nd and Walker 4th. But oli turned in an erroneous card.
You're kidding??
I would guess that in coach's meetings multiple lineups are discussed by the various coaches with reasons for batting specific players in a spot relating to the starting pitcher ( each Cardinal past success vs. that pitcher , etc . ) The lineup for the day must be submitted to the commissioners office hours prior to a game ( a change starting back in 2021 to prevent bettors from getting inside info prior to games from info being passed around the clubhouse etc. https://www.actionnetwork.com/mlb/baseb ... -las-vegas
That is usually about 2 hours PRIOR to game time. About 15 min . prior to the game, the media is given the lineups submitted to the league office much earlier. I think Jeff Jones may be in error regarding the lineup was a mistake. It was the lineup that Oli sent to the league office a couple hours prior. Was wondering if somehow Jones received info otherwise of where Herrera would bat.
The 'mistake' as Jones called it may be misinformation obtained by Jones close to game time when the lineup is given to the media. The opposing managers know the lineups once submission has been made the couple hours prior to the game but they do NOT release that to the public nor media t that time but the opposing managers know for certain where Herrera is batting that day . No last minute surprises.
When the managers give the umpire the 2 lineup cards (one for home plate ump to keep on him and one for opposing manager, the opposing manager is NOT being surprised with the lineup submitted. He knew for some time but kept it private to the media/ public til close to game time.
Marmot is of minimum value for the runway, rebuild, or whatever. He will remain manager until he performs the second Philadelphia playoff series type FUBAR. Marmot, like Moran, will use all 170,000 words in English language to explain zip. Fan and national media response will force ownership to admit Marmot is a pretender at best.
The whole idea that you have an incompetent person leading on field decision, even as puppet leader, makes minimal sense if you are attempting to improve your position. They provide regression.
BDWJr was NOT going to allow C. Bloom to hire a new & way, way more expensive Manager for the following reasons:
1 - Dewitt wanted payroll slashed to the bones prior to the CBA negotiations, he wasn't going to pay top dollar (D. Roberts & C. Counsell both making $8+M AAV) to a Manager while he slashed payroll
2 - Dewitt hired C. Bloom to implement a new "draft & develop" strategy, you need a Company Man Manager grateful just to have the job who will accept this stripped down roster w/o questioning the Owner and that's Oli
3 - Dewitt knew the 2026 season was going to be a rough one & didn't want a new Manager to go through that, better to let Oli steer the ship through the storm
4 - Dewitt, again, was never going to spend the money ($8M AAV) it would take for a high quality Manager only to see him paid to play golf if the CBA negotiations drag out as long a some suggest
Thus Oli was the right choice for Dewitt to ride out this rough stretch while the system went through a total makeover which is why he extended him.
My hope has always been Bloom has a handshake agreement w/the Dewitt's that once the payroll has been slashed (done!), the minor league system has been technologically brought up to speed (done!) and stocked w/the type of players needed for the draft & develop strategy (done!) AND (the big one) a new CBA is in place, then he could hire HIS MANAGER!
Oli is a nice guy, just not bright enough a Manager to ever take the team where it wants to get back to and that's yearly playoff appearances and World Series flag #12 flying over Busch Stadium.
Did an AI search of manager salaries and Oli did not come up at all- even in the ones they had to estimate. Asked specifically it said one to 1.5 million estimated and of course the top guys are getting $8 million. With the Cardinals spending hundreds of millions per year it seems crazy they would not spend a few million if they thought they had a better candidate- unless you believe they are trying to lose/be average.
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Jul 2026 07:17 am
It sort of amazes me how posters over simplify the problem.
Why post if you aren't going to engage in answering the questions? If it is more complex, please break it down.
Pretty simple if you consider all the roster issues and the lack of minor league depth that is close to mlb ready. Yet many think if we change managers it’s all fixed. They question why certain players are played yet give no alternatives. It’s just not very smart to think a manager change will make a big difference.
I can't stand Olli and it has massively reduced my fanhood of this team. I cannot believe they would employ such a terrible manger. He may be the worst of all time. There is micromanaging and whatever Olli's mental illness is. The bullpen management could not even possibly be worse.
If literally any baseball fan from this forum were managing this team the cards would be firmly in a playoff spot still.
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Jul 2026 07:17 am
It sort of amazes me how posters over simplify the problem.
Why post if you aren't going to engage in answering the questions? If it is more complex, please break it down.
Pretty simple if you consider all the roster issues and the lack of minor league depth that is close to mlb ready. Yet many think if we change managers it’s all fixed. They question why certain players are played yet give no alternatives. It’s just not very smart to think a manager change will make a big difference.
Nobody believes a managerial change makes this team an instant WS contender. Your claims are over blown. Many on here do not believe Marmol is the guy to lead a better roster to the next level. Contrary to some beliefs, even pro teams take on the personality of the manager. And oli hasn't proven to have a winning pedigree.
Not sure Oli is more hated than TLR was in his time here. No one to this point has banded together to purchase a banner to fly over spring training suggesting that the team fire him, like "The Faction" did for TLR.
I'm not an Oli hater, but I don't think he's really done anything great either. I'd say he's kinda average, but then again, when was the last time he had a truly good team to work with? People have complained for years about how Mo can't evaluate talent and traded off a bunch of good players, so why would a manager be able to succeed if his boss was that bad. A lot of people thought this was a 100 loss team this year, but it is looking like that is not going to happen again. So it seems like Oli is outmanaging his expectations.
I don't think Oli Marmol's biggest issue is baseball knowledge. It's leadership.
To me, Marmol often comes across as smug and dismissive of anyone who questions his decisions. He appears irritated when challenged, and while the players consistently say they like him, I've always wondered whether they truly respect him. Those are two very different things. A manager doesn't have to be everyone's friend. He has to be the leader of the clubhouse.
It feels like Oli is too concerned with being accepted as "one of the guys" instead of maintaining the healthy distance that allows a manager to lead through difficult moments. Great managers aren't afraid of uncomfortable conversations or holding players accountable face-to-face. Too often, it seems the only public criticism comes after the fact through the media rather than behind closed doors where it can have the most impact.
I also think he has a tendency to play favorites. Certain players seem to receive a much longer leash than others, creating an inconsistent standard of accountability.
From a tactical standpoint, I haven't been impressed either. His in-game decisions often feel overly scripted, with an almost complete reliance on matchups and analytics rather than reading the flow of the game. Analytics are an important tool, but they shouldn't replace instinct, feel, and situational management. The best managers blend the numbers with what they're seeing on the field.
None of this means Marmol is incapable of managing a winning team. But if the Cardinals expect to become a championship-caliber organization again, I believe they need a manager who commands unquestioned respect, communicates directly, adapts during games, and is willing to lead rather than simply follow the script.
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑27 Jul 2026 11:45 am
Not sure Oli is more hated than TLR was in his time here. No one to this point has banded together to purchase a banner to fly over spring training suggesting that the team fire him, like "The Faction" did for TLR.
I'm not an Oli hater, but I don't think he's really done anything great either. I'd say he's kinda average, but then again, when was the last time he had a truly good team to work with? People have complained for years about how Mo can't evaluate talent and traded off a bunch of good players, so why would a manager be able to succeed if his boss was that bad. A lot of people thought this was a 100 loss team this year, but it is looking like that is not going to happen again. So it seems like Oli is outmanaging his expectations.
The plane banner probably hasn't happened because people dont feel as passionate about baseball as they used to. 20-30 years ago, Busch was filled with excitement in the stands. Now, the stands are half full with most on their phones or up wondering around nonstop. Very few even pay attention to the game.
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Jul 2026 07:17 am
It sort of amazes me how posters over simplify the problem.
Why post if you aren't going to engage in answering the questions? If it is more complex, please break it down.
Pretty simple if you consider all the roster issues and the lack of minor league depth that is close to mlb ready. Yet many think if we change managers it’s all fixed. They question why certain players are played yet give no alternatives. It’s just not very smart to think a manager change will make a big difference.
Nobody believes a managerial change makes this team an instant WS contender. Your claims are over blown. Many on here do not believe Marmol is the guy to lead a better roster to the next level. Contrary to some beliefs, even pro teams take on the personality of the manager. And oli hasn't proven to have a winning pedigree.
Give me a nickel and your opinion and I have a nickel.
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑27 Jul 2026 11:54 am
Hard to blame Oli on the bullpen when there's probably only one pitcher in it that I truly trust. And O'Brien being consistently inconsistent.
Most blame goes to front office (past and present), for the lack of BP talent. But in a point brought up last week, oli just doesn't have the stature to demand better talent. Its probably why he got the job. No push-back.
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Jul 2026 07:17 am
It sort of amazes me how posters over simplify the problem.
Why post if you aren't going to engage in answering the questions? If it is more complex, please break it down.
Pretty simple if you consider all the roster issues and the lack of minor league depth that is close to mlb ready. Yet many think if we change managers it’s all fixed. They question why certain players are played yet give no alternatives. It’s just not very smart to think a manager change will make a big difference.
Nobody believes a managerial change makes this team an instant WS contender. Your claims are over blown. Many on here do not believe Marmol is the guy to lead a better roster to the next level. Contrary to some beliefs, even pro teams take on the personality of the manager. And oli hasn't proven to have a winning pedigree.
Give me a nickel and your opinion and I have a nickel.
And what makes your opinion any more important, (donkey)(pit)? Just another Marmol apologist. As I said, nobody thinks hes the sole problem. But he sure isn't the answer.
