the cards have a staff of number 4 and 5 starters

[jbrach]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

[Cardinals4Life]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

Hasn't this been obvious since Day 1?

One could argue we've been this way since circa 2012!

[2ninr]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

Hasn't this been obvious since Day 1?

One could argue we've been this way since circa 2012!

You might take a look at Adam Wainright's #'s during those years. Sonny Gray was pretty good too and would still be here if Mo had been able to put together a decent roster around him.

[Cardinals4Life]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

Hasn't this been obvious since Day 1?

One could argue we've been this way since circa 2012!

You might take a look at Adam Wainright's #'s during those years. Sonny Gray was pretty good too and would still be here if Mo had been able to put together a decent roster around him.

Waino was the closest we had to a legit #1 since Carpenter. His later years he was not, though.

[JohnnyMO]

For various reasons this org fell in love with high floor low ceiling guys for a long time. The pro is that system developed more big league level talent than maybe anyone. The con is they have primarily been bottom of the order hitters and back rotation starters. There are signs that is changing under Bloom.

[11WSChamps]

Ballclub became complacent taking advantage of the division they played in and getting away with it.

They felt they didn't have to go the extra mile and dominating the division was all that mattered to get 3Mil plus through the turnstiles.

Chaching!

[Ozziesfan41]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

Hasn't this been obvious since Day 1?

One could argue we've been this way since circa 2012!

You might take a look at Adam Wainright's #'s during those years. Sonny Gray was pretty good too and would still be here if Mo had been able to put together a decent roster around him.

Waino was the closest we had to a legit #1 since Carpenter. His later years he was not, though.

Yea good point. Walt was responsible for the cardinals aces that won them World Series in picking up carp and waino. Mo never really could get one. He drafted fast riser pitch to contact pitchers who are better suited to mid to back of the rotation. Martinez despite the hate he got was on his way to being an ace but got derailed due to injuries Alex Reyes looked like he might but got derailed by injuries Flaherty was supposed to be that guy but never was. I think bloom has the right idea draft and trade for a lot of guys with big arms instead of putting all your eggs in one basket like mo did all bloom needs is one of them click and be an ace

[hornetfb52]

I’d go as far to say 3-5 (McGreevy, Pallante, Leahy) are solid. Fix the top 2 and we’re rollin

[2ninr]

I’d go as far to say 3-5 (McGreevy, Pallante, Leahy) are solid. Fix the top 2 and we’re rollin

That's a large task. I'm not 100% about many things except that they aren't buying tor pitching. So do you want to trade Walker and Whetherholt for 2 tor pitchers? That's what it takes. You don't get them for prospects. You don't get them for packages of anyone else you have. You trade off guys like Burleson and Herrera who have value and some control left for prospects and you develope them. I don't think your trade deadline pieces are going to get you much. It's not an instant gratification thing. We are in the middle of building a system that stocks the major league team with pitching and core players. It's going to take a couple more years. But you are right. Before we become truly competitive we need front end pitching. I see Liam Doyle as the closest and he's still trying to develope his secondary pitches in aa. So middle of next year would be a pretty optimistic time for him. And I know the suggestion to trade Burly and Herrera will bring criticism. But these are both incomplete players that can be replaced by the guys coming thru the system now. The idea is they arrive with the pitching. Baez Baez Rodriguez Bernal. Enjoy the process and the end result will be even better.

[moose-and-squirrel]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

Hasn't this been obvious since Day 1?

One could argue we've been this way since circa 2012!

You might take a look at Adam Wainright's #'s during those years. Sonny Gray was pretty good too and would still be here if Mo had been able to put together a decent roster around him.

Waino was the closest we had to a legit #1 since Carpenter. His later years he was not, though.

Gibson's last few yrs weren't great either.. it happens, even to really good players

[Jatalk]

I disagree with the premise of the OP. I think we have 3 very capable promising pitchers in Mc G, Pallante and Leahy. They may not have the stuff of the Miz but to just lump them in as end of rotation guys totally ignores their potential.

When we spend money again I agree we need a top of the rotation guy, but we are already building a good rotation.

[mattmitchl44]

Long term, they have a bunch of guys who are low #3 to #5 SPs - guys who will have ERAs from the high 3.XXs up.

[Wattage]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

Mcgreevy and pallantes numbers are better than #4 starters. #3 at the very least. Leahy is trending that way other than his # of innings pitched.

Cardinals are 10th out of 30 teams in starging putching era and 11th ozt of 30 in innings putched. That isnt done with all starters no better than a #4 and Libby also being on the bad end of a #5.

We have guys that are #3 pitchers. We just need to find an ace. Pallante mcgreevy and leahy is a solid building block.

[Wattage]

I’d go as far to say 3-5 (McGreevy, Pallante, Leahy) are solid. Fix the top 2 and we’re rollin

Id say just get an ace and its a solid rotation. We are 10th in mlb starting pitcher era even without an ace(and only 11th in innings pitched). Get an ace and seenif dobbins can hold down the 5th spot and that can be a very solid rotation

[2ninr]

I disagree with the premise of the OP. I think we have 3 very capable promising pitchers in Mc G, Pallante and Leahy. They may not have the stuff of the Miz but to just lump them in as end of rotation guys totally ignores their potential.

When we spend money again I agree we need a top of the rotation guy, but we are already building a good rotation.

I just don't see them spending on starting pitching again. That's how our problems snowballed under Mo. We wound up not having enough money to build a complete roster. Starting pitching of any kind is over priced monetarily and in trade equity. We have to draft, trade for pprospects, and develope it. I think we will spend again but spend smarter. Spend to improve holes in the bullpen and everday positions.

[Cusecards]

if they can find a couple of top of the line starters they might well have a solid staff

Mcgreevy and pallantes numbers are better than #4 starters. #3 at the very least. Leahy is trending that way other than his # of innings pitched.

Cardinals are 10th out of 30 teams in starging putching era and 11th ozt of 30 in innings putched. That isnt done with all starters no better than a #4 and Libby also being on the bad end of a #5.

We have guys that are #3 pitchers. We just need to find an ace. Pallante mcgreevy and leahy is a solid building block.

+1