Any team that hits Fermin 6th isn’t a serious franchise

[nighthawk]

It’s embarrassing what this franchise has become

He went one for three with a walk. His oba for the game was .500. What should it have been for a sixth place hitter???

[Web7]

And Fermin has cost us 2 games with his defense… he doesn’t have a position and his bat is dang sure not good enough to overcome this ….He is just a guy

[ecleme22]

And Fermin has cost us 2 games with his defense… he doesn’t have a position and his bat is dang sure not good enough to overcome this ….He is just a guy

Hmmm….suddenly we are talking about his defense?

[Web7]

It’s embarrassing what this franchise has become

He went one for three with a walk. His oba for the game was .500. What should it have been for a sixth place hitter???

See you left out two important factors… He had second and third with one out… A fly ball or a ground ball drives in a run… Instead he drew the all important bases loaded, walk…… It does nothing but set up a double play……… And his next at bat he had a runner at third one out and he popped out a second… Sixth place hitter should be RBI guys…. he obviously is not. two chances to drive in runs, and he didn’t deliver in either spot… And before you go on about the walk……… You can hit a pitch out of the strike zone to drive in a run…… RBI guys do it all the time

[Cusecards]

It’s embarrassing what this franchise has become

Also bazaar!

It just never gets old Cuse.

No it doesn’t....that one belongs in the CT Time Capsule!

[scoutyjones2]

It’s embarrassing what this franchise has become

utility player

4th on the team in AVE

6th in OBP

5th in SLG (over 125 ABs)

6th in OPS (over 125 ABs)

How embarrassing for a utility player.

[BrockFloodMaris]

It’s embarrassing what this franchise has become

Do we need to call the Waaambulance for somebody?

[Cusecards]

Fermin was signed to be a utility/bench player.
If he is here in 2027 that is what his role will be
and I think he could be valuable there.
It’s not Fermin’s fault that Gorman/Urias/Saggese
are either struggling or injured.

[Chitownredbird]

Fermin was signed to be a utility/bench player.
If he is here in 2027 that is what his role will be
and I think he could be valuable there.
It’s not Fermin’s fault that Gorman/Urias/Saggese
are either struggling or injured.

To me the primary requirement for a multi position utility player is the ability to play those positions at a satisfactory level defensively. To me Fermin cannot do that at any position but 2B (maybe).

IMO it’s no accident that he hasn’t been able to stick until this year when he’s out of options.

[Cusecards]

Fermin was signed to be a utility/bench player.
If he is here in 2027 that is what his role will be
and I think he could be valuable there.
It’s not Fermin’s fault that Gorman/Urias/Saggese
are either struggling or injured.

To me the primary requirement for a multi position utility player is the ability to play those positions at a satisfactory level defensively. To me Fermin cannot do that at any position but 2B (maybe).

IMO it’s no accident that he hasn’t been able to stick until this year when he’s out of options.

He is who he is.
Fallback because the three I mentioned above
either failed or got injured.

[JuanAgosto]

It’s embarrassing what this franchise has become

utility player

4th on the team in AVE

6th in OBP

5th in SLG (over 125 ABs)

6th in OPS (over 125 ABs)

How embarrassing for a utility player.

Not embarrassing at all for Fermin. He's having a really good offensive season. More embarrassing for the Cardinals to have a utility player be that high ranking in so many categories.

[sdaltons]

How can you defend the number of games Fermin has played utility guy or not? It's a total joke in my opinion. This left, right match ups are silly in a so called rebuild. Play they players for the future, not so-called utility players. It seems lately you defend everything the Cardinals are doing and not being objective.

Who would you rather be playing in his spot? You can say I'm defending everything and not being objective, but what is your idea? Because I would say that until you can come up with something, you just don't like the guy and are the one not being objective here. You've been asked that multiple times elsewhere. Just name someone and give me your reasons why they would be better?

Like it or not, Fermin has been proving league average offense (.257 .321 .377), while being able to play nearly everywhere, minus pitcher and catcher. He has a better stat line than starters like Winn, Church, and Jordan. No one is saying he's great, but it is a rebuilding year. Guys are going to get more looks than they might in a regular year. You have to understand that.

Who else on the team can do that? Thomas Saggese, who hit .184 .244 .276 with the team and is hitting .246 .321 .393 in AAA? He has looked completely overmatched this year.

Bryan Torres, who is hitting .214 .276 .443? He has played in 35 games and has 77 PAs. In the same time period since Torres got called up, Fermin has played in 41 games and has 131 PAs, but he also has hit .275 .331 .400. He also can play more positions. And Fermin is 2 years younger.

Ramon Urias has been hurt all season and can't really play anywhere else. He's also 32. Cesar Prieto never got on base during his time at the MLB level and is the same age as Fermin. Would you like to see Blaze Jordan playing SS, 2B, and the OF when needed?

The bolded is the actual issue. It's not that Fermin hasn't been ok. It's nothing really to do with Fermin at all. It's that at multiple positions, we can't produce a player better than Jose Fermin.

We are in a real rough place right now as a rebuilding team with very little of interest to dangle at the deadline.

[renostl]

If all what you have stated is true, this team is bad shape going forward. In the last 15 games Fermin is hitting .217 playing just about every day.

Who should be getting that playing time and why?

Church is the future. He should be starting every game in CF. Blaze to me has a bigger upside than Fermin and should be playing every game 3rd base. Anyone should be playing left field over Fermin. Another thing, Crooks should be catching as many games as possible. We will never know what he is until he plays every day. As always just my opinion and I enjoy the conversations. This is what baseball fans are about, great conversation and their own opinions.

Strange thing with Fermin he is a late inning defensive replacement as many utility players would be.

Then acknowledge that Blaze is up after only playing 57 games at Memphis after posting
a .608 OPS the previous season. That he is replacing 2 "future" players that didn't produce,
Church has played in 84 games he missed 15 due to shoulder strain. Sure doesn't sound like he has
missed many.

I don't see Fermin as a late inning D replacement more of a match up, give
a player a day off pinch hitter guy, but you may be right.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

Church is the future. He should be starting every game in CF. Blaze to me has a bigger upside than Fermin and should be playing every game 3rd base. Anyone should be playing left field over Fermin. Another thing, Crooks should be catching as many games as possible. We will never know what he is until he plays every day. As always just my opinion and I enjoy the conversations. This is what baseball fans are about, great conversation and their own opinions.

Strange thing with Fermin he is a late inning defensive replacement as many utility players would be.

So, by my count after VSII was sent down and Church took over as CFer, he has started 32 games in CF. From what I can tell, Fermin has started 4 in that time. I should add that 3 of those 4 starts came on 7/10, 7/19, and 7/22, during which time Nathan Church has been on an 18 game .132 .164 .189 .352 with 1 extra base hit and 2 walk skid. You can't tell me that Church can't use a break lately. The one start outside of that time was on 6/24 against a lefty and Fermin went 2-3 with a HR and BB, stole a base, and scored 3 runs. He also played 3B and LF in that game.

And I would question if Church really is the future. Future what? 4th OFer? Sure. Platoon bat? I hope so. Starter? I'm not sure. He's a year younger than Fermin and hit .280 .351 .396 in the minors to Fermin's .267 .365 .396 .762. Not much difference in offense, which may be why Fermin has gotten starts there against tough lefties, especially since Church has seemed overmatched at the MLB level, hitting .220 .266 .344 .610 for his career. Yes, Church is miles ahead of Fermin defensively, but as we have learned with VSII (and Church).....your players have to be able to hit a little bit. But yes, I am generally with you. I would much rather, in a runway year, see Church getting starts over Fermin in CF or LF, but he overwhelmingly already has.

As to 3B, Fermin has started 11 games at 3B and Blaze has started 22, so he's getting double the playing time. And again, I know you value defense, and I want to see Blaze get a lot of that runway this year, but you've seen Blaze play defense at 3B, right? It's not pretty. Yes, we are trying to get guys playing time, but when you have young starting pitching like we do, do you really want to keep sending Blaze Jordan out there to 3B butchering a lot of plays? We are developing starting pitching too. We can't just hang them out to dry because we need to get Blaze Jordan 400 ABs. Besides, it's not like he's hitting the cover off the ball either. He's been much worse than Fermin has offensively as well.

As to LF, Fermin hasn't started a game there since 6/3. Lars Nootbaar came back on 6/5, so that is probably a big reason of why Fermin got as many starts there (12) as he did. Nelson Velasquez came up on 5/29 and, between Torres and him, they took over in LF. Also, when Fermin is playing LF he has hit .315 .377 .537 .914, so either Oli is pushing the right buttons in strategic starts or maybe we should consider starting Fermin out there more. You tell me.

So, yea, I think you are greatly overreacting and seeing a bigger deal out there than there actually is because you have decided that you don't like José Fermín. I don't think that Fermin is that good, but on a rebuilding team with not a whole lot of great options, he is about what you would expect to have as a super utility guy, and I think he's done a decent job at it.

[Cusecards]

How can you defend the number of games Fermin has played utility guy or not? It's a total joke in my opinion. This left, right match ups are silly in a so called rebuild. Play they players for the future, not so-called utility players. It seems lately you defend everything the Cardinals are doing and not being objective.

Who would you rather be playing in his spot? You can say I'm defending everything and not being objective, but what is your idea? Because I would say that until you can come up with something, you just don't like the guy and are the one not being objective here. You've been asked that multiple times elsewhere. Just name someone and give me your reasons why they would be better?

Like it or not, Fermin has been proving league average offense (.257 .321 .377), while being able to play nearly everywhere, minus pitcher and catcher. He has a better stat line than starters like Winn, Church, and Jordan. No one is saying he's great, but it is a rebuilding year. Guys are going to get more looks than they might in a regular year. You have to understand that.

Who else on the team can do that? Thomas Saggese, who hit .184 .244 .276 with the team and is hitting .246 .321 .393 in AAA? He has looked completely overmatched this year.

Bryan Torres, who is hitting .214 .276 .443? He has played in 35 games and has 77 PAs. In the same time period since Torres got called up, Fermin has played in 41 games and has 131 PAs, but he also has hit .275 .331 .400. He also can play more positions. And Fermin is 2 years younger.

Ramon Urias has been hurt all season and can't really play anywhere else. He's also 32. Cesar Prieto never got on base during his time at the MLB level and is the same age as Fermin. Would you like to see Blaze Jordan playing SS, 2B, and the OF when needed?

The bolded is the actual issue. It's not that Fermin hasn't been ok. It's nothing really to do with Fermin at all. It's that at multiple positions, we can't produce a player better than Jose Fermin.

We are in a real rough place right now as a rebuilding team with very little of interest to dangle at the deadline.

Ding ding ding....we have a winner!
He’s currently a placeholder and will be a reserve if he is back next season.
In truth I actually like his AB’s in general over a number of guys especially with RISP.

[scoutyjones2]

It’s embarrassing what this franchise has become

utility player

4th on the team in AVE

6th in OBP

5th in SLG (over 125 ABs)

6th in OPS (over 125 ABs)

How embarrassing for a utility player.

Not embarrassing at all for Fermin. He's having a really good offensive season. More embarrassing for the Cardinals to have a utility player be that high ranking in so many categories.

Exactly