McMichael Signs

[skilles]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

Hmm, I'm ok with the signing. Let's hear your proposal. What would you have done instead?

I would of gone to arbitration givimg me a look at how he fits in and what he can produce under our defensive first style. He hasn't proved himself more then a fourth liner on a good team. So this much for that long can become a real problem for the team when our top talents needs new contracts

I agree with you to an extent. I would have done my utmost to see him play here before giving him this long-term contract. As it stands the contract was a year or two too long and 500K minimum per season too rich.

And you're right, the Blues have a history extending trade acquisitions too early before seeing them play for a full season - Scandella, Leddy, Fowler. They've also struggled misjudging fits in the free agent market with Krug, Brouwer and Clifford among others. It's been an ongoing flaw in pro personnel evaluation which probably needs upgrading. Hopefully McMichael breaks the trend.

I agree with this.

I will add though that I'm not as sure its an evaluation problem as much as A problem with what is available to us.

I think we have a problem comparing the players we got/get to players that were never available to us.

The whole concept is way different than Armature scouting and decisions. For example when we signed Butch we were not deciding between 20 players that were available to us in that "range"

I think it is very likely the difference is draft picks don't have a choice who they get picked by while UFA and players with NTC do. Very understated part of it.

I know people don't want to admit it but STL is just not that desirable for most people and if you add in not making the playoff we probably switch from not that desirable to undesirable for most players so I'd say we are choosing from a place of very little options.

Good chance the evaluators didn't say yeah butch is going to be awesome through his next contract for sure as much as they said hey he is better than our other options.

Same with MM, he has a couple important thing that makes him valuable to us.
1. He didn't have trade protection
2. A team Kyrou said yes to was willing to trade him.
3. we can sign him

I seriously doubt our pro scouts targeted him

So I think in this era you can't just keep waiting on draft picks, you have to make moves to become more desirable before your draft picks start finding a way out. We have to find a way over the hump and become a more desirable destination ASAP.

[TruBlueFan_1970]

I know people don't want to admit it but STL is just not that desirable for most people and if you add in not making the playoff we probably switch from not that desirable to undesirable for most players so I'd say we are choosing from a place of very little options.

Same with MM, he has a couple important thing that makes him valuable to us.
1. He didn't have trade protection
2. A team Kyrou said yes to was willing to trade him.
3. we can sign him

I seriously doubt our pro scouts targeted him

So I think in this era you can't just keep waiting on draft picks, you have to make moves to become more desirable before your draft picks start finding a way out. We have to find a way over the hump and become a more desirable destination ASAP.

Agree with a lot of this, but I think this ebbs and flows. Seems that once we do get a player to come here, they like to stay. ROR, Schenn, Fowler, Buch, etc…. Most Players need to know they have a legitimate shot at winning at some point during their contract. Blues need desperately to reestablish that ASAP as you’ve said.

I do like the mix they are building right now. They need to stay healthy, have players at least play to their potential, with a few exceeding it, and build some team chemistry which has been lacking to me.

They have better “natural center” depth. They have added some tenacity. They have added some grit. They continue to infuse the youth. They’ve improved the defense. And they’ve created competition. I do think they will be a better team this year, but they must get off to a decent start and it has to start in net. If Hofer and Binner implode early like last year, desired destination goes down. If they play to their potential, they start down the path you mentioned.

[DawgDad]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

Hmm, I'm ok with the signing. Let's hear your proposal. What would you have done instead?

I would of gone to arbitration givimg me a look at how he fits in and what he can produce under our defensive first style. He hasn't proved himself more then a fourth liner on a good team. So this much for that long can become a real problem for the team when our top talents needs new contracts

I agree with you to an extent. I would have done my utmost to see him play here before giving him this long-term contract. As it stands the contract was a year or two too long and 500K minimum per season too rich.

And you're right, the Blues have a history extending trade acquisitions too early before seeing them play for a full season - Scandella, Leddy, Fowler. They've also struggled misjudging fits in the free agent market with Krug, Brouwer and Clifford among others. It's been an ongoing flaw in pro personnel evaluation which probably needs upgrading. Hopefully McMichael breaks the trend.

I agree with this.

I will add though that I'm not as sure its an evaluation problem as much as A problem with what is available to us.

I think we have a problem comparing the players we got/get to players that were never available to us.

The whole concept is way different than Armature scouting and decisions. For example when we signed Butch we were not deciding between 20 players that were available to us in that "range"

I think it is very likely the difference is draft picks don't have a choice who they get picked by while UFA and players with NTC do. Very understated part of it.

I know people don't want to admit it but STL is just not that desirable for most people and if you add in not making the playoff we probably switch from not that desirable to undesirable for most players so I'd say we are choosing from a place of very little options.

Good chance the evaluators didn't say yeah butch is going to be awesome through his next contract for sure as much as they said hey he is better than our other options.

Same with MM, he has a couple important thing that makes him valuable to us.
1. He didn't have trade protection
2. A team Kyrou said yes to was willing to trade him.
3. we can sign him

I seriously doubt our pro scouts targeted him

So I think in this era you can't just keep waiting on draft picks, you have to make moves to become more desirable before your draft picks start finding a way out. We have to find a way over the hump and become a more desirable destination ASAP.

In a nutshell, rebuilding. I don't really subscribe to the angst (it serves no purpose) and the historical player references above your post are at least somewhat off-base. The Blues have been methodically and patiently rebuilding and all signs indicate they'll stay the course. Even if you look at the recently aquired players as more filler one has to acknowledge the QUALITY of the players is leveling up from Blais, Vrana, Brown, etc., even Hayes.

The Blues don't have a mountain to climb to be respectable, competitive. They are climbing a ladder of young player and team development. That requires a measure of patience. Expect some of the younger players to improve, that's reasonable. The number of aging backsliding veterans they are counting on for anything is steadily dwindling, down to a handful at most.

[stlblue06]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

I think it’s safe to say the Blues had a very good idea what they were going to sign McMichael for before they finalized the trade. He was the only NHL player they got back in a trade for their top goal scorer on a good contract.

[skilles]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

Hmm, I'm ok with the signing. Let's hear your proposal. What would you have done instead?

I would of gone to arbitration givimg me a look at how he fits in and what he can produce under our defensive first style. He hasn't proved himself more then a fourth liner on a good team. So this much for that long can become a real problem for the team when our top talents needs new contracts

I agree with you to an extent. I would have done my utmost to see him play here before giving him this long-term contract. As it stands the contract was a year or two too long and 500K minimum per season too rich.

And you're right, the Blues have a history extending trade acquisitions too early before seeing them play for a full season - Scandella, Leddy, Fowler. They've also struggled misjudging fits in the free agent market with Krug, Brouwer and Clifford among others. It's been an ongoing flaw in pro personnel evaluation which probably needs upgrading. Hopefully McMichael breaks the trend.

I agree with this.

I will add though that I'm not as sure its an evaluation problem as much as A problem with what is available to us.

I think we have a problem comparing the players we got/get to players that were never available to us.

The whole concept is way different than Armature scouting and decisions. For example when we signed Butch we were not deciding between 20 players that were available to us in that "range"

I think it is very likely the difference is draft picks don't have a choice who they get picked by while UFA and players with NTC do. Very understated part of it.

I know people don't want to admit it but STL is just not that desirable for most people and if you add in not making the playoff we probably switch from not that desirable to undesirable for most players so I'd say we are choosing from a place of very little options.

Good chance the evaluators didn't say yeah butch is going to be awesome through his next contract for sure as much as they said hey he is better than our other options.

Same with MM, he has a couple important thing that makes him valuable to us.
1. He didn't have trade protection
2. A team Kyrou said yes to was willing to trade him.
3. we can sign him

I seriously doubt our pro scouts targeted him

So I think in this era you can't just keep waiting on draft picks, you have to make moves to become more desirable before your draft picks start finding a way out. We have to find a way over the hump and become a more desirable destination ASAP.

In a nutshell, rebuilding. I don't really subscribe to the angst (it serves no purpose) and the historical player references above your post are at least somewhat off-base. The Blues have been methodically and patiently rebuilding and all signs indicate they'll stay the course. Even if you look at the recently aquired players as more filler one has to acknowledge the QUALITY of the players is leveling up from Blais, Vrana, Brown, etc., even Hayes.

The Blues don't have a mountain to climb to be respectable, competitive. They are climbing a ladder of young player and team development. That requires a measure of patience. Expect some of the younger players to improve, that's reasonable. The number of aging backsliding veterans they are counting on for anything is steadily dwindling, down to a handful at most.

The bottom line is if signing Buch and MM get us back in the playoffs next year when a really good player is getting traded we are much more likely not be on his no trade list or get said player to sign ling term.

You gotta be playing chess not checkers at this level.

[skilles]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

I think it’s safe to say the Blues had a very good idea what they were going to sign McMichael for before they finalized the trade. He was the only NHL player they got back in a trade for their top goal scorer on a good contract.

I'm not so sure about that

"finding out while he was out golfing. He admitted that the initial news brought a "little bit of a shock," but he quickly became excited to join the young Blues roster"

I doubt the Blues even spoke to McMichael before the trade. The Blues got McMichael because he was a piece a team Kyrou would go to was willing to give up.

[steve li]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

I think it’s safe to say the Blues had a very good idea what they were going to sign McMichael for before they finalized the trade. He was the only NHL player they got back in a trade for their top goal scorer on a good contract.

I'm not so sure about that

"finding out while he was out golfing. He admitted that the initial news brought a "little bit of a shock," but he quickly became excited to join the young Blues roster"

I doubt the Blues even spoke to McMichael before the trade. The Blues got McMichael because he was a piece a team Kyrou would go to was willing to give up.

Can/do teams do that?

[DawgDad]

A lot of this is some fans or posters herein are attracted by the shiny expensive luxury cars, so to speak, the guys in play in free agency or on the trade market. You don't have to have those guys to win. Brady T. didn't win anything, leaving a smear of punkishness on his armor. Rantanen landed on a team that fell short. Where is Chychrun? Etc, etc. It helped Carolina to pick up Hall and Ehlers, though, but wasn't Stankoven a "settle for" guy before the playoffs? Yes, he was.

It helps to keep things in perspective. From 00-01 through 18-19 Florida was loserville, at some point their window is likely to close. The Oilers have two of the shiniest cars and they are beatable. Vegas is a strong team with exposed limitations. The Blues won a Cup with "cast-offs" anchoring their top three lines, not shiny cars. They can win games without BT and others.

Patience is a virtue when a team is rebuilding as the Blues are. I believe they can and should make the playoffs but they have a lot of hard work to do to mesh and raise the bar. If they do make the playoffs they will likely do so without significant contributions from Jiricek, Carbonneau, Lawrence, and other promising prospects. There is reason to be optimistic about the future, reason to be patient, and in the meantime reason to believe in the young players who are here now.

[skilles]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

I think it’s safe to say the Blues had a very good idea what they were going to sign McMichael for before they finalized the trade. He was the only NHL player they got back in a trade for their top goal scorer on a good contract.

I'm not so sure about that

"finding out while he was out golfing. He admitted that the initial news brought a "little bit of a shock," but he quickly became excited to join the young Blues roster"

I doubt the Blues even spoke to McMichael before the trade. The Blues got McMichael because he was a piece a team Kyrou would go to was willing to give up.

Can/do teams do that?

Trade without speaking to the player? Absolutely. They'd have to have permission to talk to the player but trades happen all the time without any communication with the player.

[TAFKAP]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

I think it’s safe to say the Blues had a very good idea what they were going to sign McMichael for before they finalized the trade. He was the only NHL player they got back in a trade for their top goal scorer on a good contract.

I'm not so sure about that

"finding out while he was out golfing. He admitted that the initial news brought a "little bit of a shock," but he quickly became excited to join the young Blues roster"

I doubt the Blues even spoke to McMichael before the trade. The Blues got McMichael because he was a piece a team Kyrou would go to was willing to give up.

Can/do teams do that?

Trade without speaking to the player? Absolutely. They'd have to have permission to talk to the player but trades happen all the time without any communication with the player.

IIRC wasn't there some handwringing over the Islanders "Accidentally" bumping into Schenn because they were in the same hotel? They were waiting on him to decide to waive when they just happened to run across him in the hallway to make their case to him.

[steve li]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

I think it’s safe to say the Blues had a very good idea what they were going to sign McMichael for before they finalized the trade. He was the only NHL player they got back in a trade for their top goal scorer on a good contract.

I'm not so sure about that

"finding out while he was out golfing. He admitted that the initial news brought a "little bit of a shock," but he quickly became excited to join the young Blues roster"

I doubt the Blues even spoke to McMichael before the trade. The Blues got McMichael because he was a piece a team Kyrou would go to was willing to give up.

Can/do teams do that?

Trade without speaking to the player? Absolutely. They'd have to have permission to talk to the player but trades happen all the time without any communication with the player.

Not without speaking to the player. Speaking to the player.

[tfriede2]

The signing of MckeeMike is a typical blues move to prove they made a good trade. Everything last management did was self dealing, and loyal Steen isn't gonna bust up a good thing. He too wants to work here for years producing wins in May and golf shots in June. Theres a formula and it starts with local knowledge being what they are told rather then what they see.

I think it’s safe to say the Blues had a very good idea what they were going to sign McMichael for before they finalized the trade. He was the only NHL player they got back in a trade for their top goal scorer on a good contract.

I'm not so sure about that

"finding out while he was out golfing. He admitted that the initial news brought a "little bit of a shock," but he quickly became excited to join the young Blues roster"

I doubt the Blues even spoke to McMichael before the trade. The Blues got McMichael because he was a piece a team Kyrou would go to was willing to give up.

Can/do teams do that?

Trade without speaking to the player? Absolutely. They'd have to have permission to talk to the player but trades happen all the time without any communication with the player.

IIRC wasn't there some handwringing over the Islanders "Accidentally" bumping into Schenn because they were in the same hotel? They were waiting on him to decide to waive when they just happened to run across him in the hallway to make their case to him.

No handwringing. The blues had already asked Schenn to waive for the Islanders. It was in the Blues’ interest for the Islanders’ brass to make their case. I’m sure the Blues were thankful that they did.

[Old_Goat]

A lot of this is some fans or posters herein are attracted by the shiny expensive luxury cars, so to speak, the guys in play in free agency or on the trade market. You don't have to have those guys to win. Brady T. didn't win anything, leaving a smear of punkishness on his armor. Rantanen landed on a team that fell short. Where is Chychrun? Etc, etc. It helped Carolina to pick up Hall and Ehlers, though, but wasn't Stankoven a "settle for" guy before the playoffs? Yes, he was.

It helps to keep things in perspective. From 00-01 through 18-19 Florida was loserville, at some point their window is likely to close. The Oilers have two of the shiniest cars and they are beatable. Vegas is a strong team with exposed limitations. The Blues won a Cup with "cast-offs" anchoring their top three lines, not shiny cars. They can win games without BT and others.

Patience is a virtue when a team is rebuilding as the Blues are. I believe they can and should make the playoffs but they have a lot of hard work to do to mesh and raise the bar. If they do make the playoffs they will likely do so without significant contributions from Jiricek, Carbonneau, Lawrence, and other promising prospects. There is reason to be optimistic about the future, reason to be patient, and in the meantime reason to believe in the young players who are here now.

People forget, during a period of about 7-11 years ago, there were some whom were questioning if the Panthers remaining in Florida was really good for the league, maybe even viable. Attendance at games was way below league average. Players were not overly enthused about going there.
It's amazing what winning and getting into the playoffs and obviously competing in the Finals and winning the Cup can do for players wanting to be there.

[BluesDom]

A lot of this is some fans or posters herein are attracted by the shiny expensive luxury cars, so to speak, the guys in play in free agency or on the trade market. You don't have to have those guys to win. Brady T. didn't win anything, leaving a smear of punkishness on his armor. Rantanen landed on a team that fell short. Where is Chychrun? Etc, etc. It helped Carolina to pick up Hall and Ehlers, though, but wasn't Stankoven a "settle for" guy before the playoffs? Yes, he was.

It helps to keep things in perspective. From 00-01 through 18-19 Florida was loserville, at some point their window is likely to close. The Oilers have two of the shiniest cars and they are beatable. Vegas is a strong team with exposed limitations. The Blues won a Cup with "cast-offs" anchoring their top three lines, not shiny cars. They can win games without BT and others.

Patience is a virtue when a team is rebuilding as the Blues are. I believe they can and should make the playoffs but they have a lot of hard work to do to mesh and raise the bar. If they do make the playoffs they will likely do so without significant contributions from Jiricek, Carbonneau, Lawrence, and other promising prospects. There is reason to be optimistic about the future, reason to be patient, and in the meantime reason to believe in the young players who are here now.

Agree

[Bacchk29]

A lot of this is some fans or posters herein are attracted by the shiny expensive luxury cars, so to speak, the guys in play in free agency or on the trade market. You don't have to have those guys to win. Brady T. didn't win anything, leaving a smear of punkishness on his armor. Rantanen landed on a team that fell short. Where is Chychrun? Etc, etc. It helped Carolina to pick up Hall and Ehlers, though, but wasn't Stankoven a "settle for" guy before the playoffs? Yes, he was.

It helps to keep things in perspective. From 00-01 through 18-19 Florida was loserville, at some point their window is likely to close. The Oilers have two of the shiniest cars and they are beatable. Vegas is a strong team with exposed limitations. The Blues won a Cup with "cast-offs" anchoring their top three lines, not shiny cars. They can win games without BT and others.

Patience is a virtue when a team is rebuilding as the Blues are. I believe they can and should make the playoffs but they have a lot of hard work to do to mesh and raise the bar. If they do make the playoffs they will likely do so without significant contributions from Jiricek, Carbonneau, Lawrence, and other promising prospects. There is reason to be optimistic about the future, reason to be patient, and in the meantime reason to believe in the young players who are here now.

I’m curious at what point do you lose patience with this re whatever this is? It’s year three basically of the retool is what the Blues are calling this. I would think if there’s not significant improvement out of the Dvorsky draft picks, you need to look at the direction the team is going and is it correct.

[BluesDom]

I think the Blues have made good moves and I havent lost patience at all.
We have been blessed with a winning team and a cup. This years team is looking very good.
Dvorsky is set for 40 pts imo. Should be great year.