hockey jedi wrote: ↑03 Jul 2026 19:19 pm
If Anaheim matches, it really eats up a lot of their cap. Verbeek really screwed himself.
Does the signing bonus count against the cap?
Pretty sure you can't circumvent the salary cap by giving a player a larger bonus to make the AAV lower.
I could be wrong, but I think you’re correct. Salary and signing bonus count against the cap. Performance bonuses do not, but I “think” they carry to the next seasons cap hit iirc. For example, look at the contract Ovie just signed. $4.25m cap hit but he has an additional performance bonus of $4.75m. That would hit them the following year I believe.
Mostly correct.
Yes, both salary and signing bonuses count towards the Cap.
Performance bonuses do too. They simply can’t be calculated until the end of the season though. But you don’t necessarily pay all of the performance bonus in the season in which it’s earned. It’s allowed to carry over to the next season’s Cap if needed. But it doesn’t automatically all carry over. If a team has enough cap space at the end of the season to cover the performance bonuses, they just update the math and all is good.
But let’s say a team ends up owing $2M in performance bonuses at the end of the season and they ended the season with $1.25M of cap space. $1.25M of that bonus would be accrued in that season and then they’d be penalized an overage of $750k for the next season.
Also, I’ll note that the only type of contracts that can have performance bonuses are ELCs and 35+ contracts.
hockey jedi wrote: ↑03 Jul 2026 19:19 pm
If Anaheim matches, it really eats up a lot of their cap. Verbeek really screwed himself.
Does the signing bonus count against the cap?
Correct me if I'm wrong; but the cap hit is $18m a yr for the next 5yrs. the $39m in the 1st 12months is to F Anaheim over (trying to come up with that kind of money in a short period).
Correct. Bonuses don’t change the cap. It just changes the pay structure to the player. Front loading bonuses is to stick it to Anaheim (their owner is loaded tho).
skilles wrote: ↑03 Jul 2026 22:32 pm
Something I wish they would change, I think teams should be required to carry enough cap space to cover all bonuses the year they are achieved
Having said that I believe the Blues went over in 2019
Don’t recall if they did in 2019 but they did a couple years ago because of bonuses to Bolduc and Suter.
I’m just waiting for the day when a team signs 10 vets to one year 35+ deals. All league minimum salaries so that’s all that would count against the Cap. But then huge performance bonuses that are pretty easy to hit (for example, Ovie’s contract for this season has a bonus of $4.75M for playing 10 games). You could build a roster that “should” cost around $150M+ under a $104M cap that way. I mean, it’d be a one year shot as you’d then pay dearly for it the next season once you have to pay the piper but for the sake of chaos, I’d like to see a GM try it.
skilles wrote: ↑03 Jul 2026 22:32 pm
Something I wish they would change, I think teams should be required to carry enough cap space to cover all bonuses the year they are achieved
Having said that I believe the Blues went over in 2019
Don’t recall if they did in 2019 but they did a couple years ago because of bonuses to Bolduc and Suter.
I’m just waiting for the day when a team signs 10 vets to one year 35+ deals. All league minimum salaries so that’s all that would count against the Cap. But then huge performance bonuses that are pretty easy to hit (for example, Ovie’s contract for this season has a bonus of $4.75M for playing 10 games). You could build a roster that “should” cost around $150M+ under a $104M cap that way. I mean, it’d be a one year shot as you’d then pay dearly for it the next season once you have to pay the piper but for the sake of chaos, I’d like to see a GM try it.
There is some loophole to be exploited there for sure, specially if you have a veteran that really just wants to win a cup.
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (bleep) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
STL fan in MN wrote: ↑03 Jul 2026 17:49 pm
I think Verbeek would’ve made a good GM 20 years ago. Maybe even 10. But he either needs to adapt to the current reality or the Ducks are going to be screwed.
As yes, Verbeek is known to really try to get his young prospects on as low of contracts as possible. You don’t want to be loose with your money/cap space but go too far in the other direction and players aren’t going to want to play for you as they’ll feel disrespected, under appreciated etc.
For the record, Carlsson wanted to extend earlier this season and it was Verbeek that said he wanted to hold off on negotiations until after the season. Just get it done!
Now he has this mess and Gauthier and Mintyukov left to sign as well. Word is 4 teams have already sent Mintyukov offer sheets as well…
For certain players.....could it be this might be a wake up call to hold off on signing to set up for offer sheets?
I see the risk on the player side but again for certain players I would think they would have to consider it.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
I don't think he did any of that at least on purpose, I think he underestimated the market and didn't fully understand or misjudged the cap situation like almost everyone else.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
I don't think he did any of that at least on purpose, I think he underestimated the market and didn't fully understand or misjudged the cap situation like almost everyone else.
That's understandable for you and me ...well me anyway....but c'mon.
This was reckless management by a pro and entirely avoidable.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
I don't think he did any of that at least on purpose, I think he underestimated the market and didn't fully understand or misjudged the cap situation like almost everyone else.
That's understandable for you and me ...well me anyway....but but c'mon.
This was reckless management by a pro and entirely avoidable.
Well yes and no, there are not many people that know hockey well enough to be an NHL GM and have the knowledge to understand the market in the details needed but at the same time they should have staff that does.
Everyone throwing him under the bus now but following the discussions about contracts/money etc. I think almost everyone didn't realize what was coming or at least to the extent.
Had he gave this kid 15 million already all the same people throwing him under the bus now would have said he was terrible for doing that....but you gotta do what you know is right....most of the time that will make the average people think you are the idiot. (Buch contract) people are watching this [shirt] unfold live and STILL want to dump him.
Last edited by skilles on 04 Jul 2026 09:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
I don't think he did any of that at least on purpose, I think he underestimated the market and didn't fully understand or misjudged the cap situation like almost everyone else.
That's understandable for you and me ...well me anyway....but but c'mon.
This was reckless management by a pro and entirely avoidable.
Well yes and no, there are not many people that know hockey well enough to be an NHL GM and have the knowledge to understand the market in the details needed but at the same time they should have staff that does.
Everyone throwing him under the bus now but following the discussions about contracts/money etc. I think almost everyone didn't realize what was coming or at least to the extent.
I totally agree Philly laid a bomb on them but even if the offer was 15/8 the offer itself should have been front and center as a possibility.
The only one looking good here imo is Carlson and he just signed what was put in front of him.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
I don't think he did any of that at least on purpose, I think he underestimated the market and didn't fully understand or misjudged the cap situation like almost everyone else.
That's understandable for you and me ...well me anyway....but but c'mon.
This was reckless management by a pro and entirely avoidable.
Well yes and no, there are not many people that know hockey well enough to be an NHL GM and have the knowledge to understand the market in the details needed but at the same time they should have staff that does.
Everyone throwing him under the bus now but following the discussions about contracts/money etc. I think almost everyone didn't realize what was coming or at least to the extent.
I totally agree Philly laid a bomb on them but even if the offer was 15/8 the offer itself should have been front and center as a possibility.
The only one looking good here imo is Carlson and he just signed what was put in front of him.
If its 15/8 (15/7) they just match and learn a lesson without damage.
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
I don't think he did any of that at least on purpose, I think he underestimated the market and didn't fully understand or misjudged the cap situation like almost everyone else.
That's understandable for you and me ...well me anyway....but but c'mon.
This was reckless management by a pro and entirely avoidable.
Well yes and no, there are not many people that know hockey well enough to be an NHL GM and have the knowledge to understand the market in the details needed but at the same time they should have staff that does.
Everyone throwing him under the bus now but following the discussions about contracts/money etc. I think almost everyone didn't realize what was coming or at least to the extent.
Had he gave this kid 15 million already all the same people throwing him under the bus now would have said he was terrible for doing that....but you gotta do what you know is right....most of the time that will make the average people think you are the idiot. (Buch contract)
No Verbeek is a moron. He negotiated last offseason playing hardball the same way he did with McTavish. He is well known for being terrible to deal with negotiating contracts. Reports have said it would have been 8 years and under 10m aav last offseason but he wouldn't do that or a bridge deal with a lower aav. If Im Gauthier I take my QO and sign the biggest offer sheet I can next year. Mintyukov looks like he's gonna sign with the highest bidded also
UMR-alum-05 wrote: ↑04 Jul 2026 08:25 am
What the heck is Verbeek doing here. Carlson is your #1 center. They are (drat) near impossible to find except through the draft. Why would you ever put yourself in this position. It's crazy.
You've got an older coach with a championship pedigree. You're not in a position to start all over.
Look at what has gone on with their roster this offseason. Hell the first rounder for John Carlson at the deadline was questionable. Then you don't sign him. Lose your entire right side of your defense to free agency. Trade McTavish. Now L Carlson is offer sheeted. Minty next. It's like good grief fire this guy already he's destroying that franchise.
Is Verbeek just sitting around rubbing himself in peanut butter while all this is going on? Wild.
I don't know if they already do this but if they don't every franchise should be hiring a person to evaluate the market and where the numbers say it is going. I think like most fans he probably does not have a solid grasp on the constant evolution of the fluid cap situation.
Verbeek surely had to look at the landscape for this offseason, see that every team just about will have cap space, see that there are hardly any impact players available to sign, and see that he's in an extremely vulnerable position with some of his key players who could get offer sheets. Right? I mean isn't that his job for crying out loud?
He willingly delayed signing these players. He chose to do this. He left the door wide open for these offer sheets. And for what reason exactly? Who does he think he's proving a point to by doing this? At best he's letting other teams decide the prices for his own players and at worst he's losing his best players for futures.
I don't think he did any of that at least on purpose, I think he underestimated the market and didn't fully understand or misjudged the cap situation like almost everyone else.
That's understandable for you and me ...well me anyway....but but c'mon.
This was reckless management by a pro and entirely avoidable.
Well yes and no, there are not many people that know hockey well enough to be an NHL GM and have the knowledge to understand the market in the details needed but at the same time they should have staff that does.
Everyone throwing him under the bus now but following the discussions about contracts/money etc. I think almost everyone didn't realize what was coming or at least to the extent.
I totally agree Philly laid a bomb on them but even if the offer was 15/8 the offer itself should have been front and center as a possibility.
The only one looking good here imo is Carlson and he just signed what was put in front of him.
If its 15/8 (15/7) they just match and learn a lesson without damage.
It's no way to run a ship...tons of other negotiating aspects left up to a competitor to decide besides the message to your own player.
And I just used that number/term....who's to say what might have actually happened had they negotiated directly??
