Good strategy by coaching staff in 10th

[ramfandan]

Though the Padres won the game on the sac fly, the Cardinals coaching staff made moves to try to maximize their chances to keep Padres from scoring.

First, after TV commercial cameras showed Oli, Descalso, Molina in discussion in the dugout. One could assume they were discussing how they would play the 'runner on 2nd ' situation to try to prevent the winning run from scoring.

First, they gave intentional pass to put a runner on 1st. This set up a double play possible to try to get 2 outs quickly on an infield ground ball. (The added runner on 1st has no bearing in the game for scoring as the lead runner is the winning run not the trail runner at 1st )
Best case scenario would be a grounder to 3rd base or SS where the lead runner could be forced at 3rd followed by a throw to 1st .. result would be 2 outs with runner on 2nd Next best is a ball hit to JJ and start the double play Winn to Burley for 2 outs with runner on 2nd going to 3rd.
In either scenario you have two outs and it takes a hit to score the lead runner. (Note: Yes, if the runner is on 3rd a wild pitch can be a winner to score the guy from 3rd but generally it takes a hit .. no fly ball sacrifce in play since 2 outs )

After the pitcher walked the bases loaded, then the Cardinals applied the 5-man infield you see managers do bringing in weakest arm OF .. playing 3 defenders on left side of IF and two on the right side playing in on edge of grass as they have to throw home for the force at home. The two OF both playing in LC and RC but only deep enough where they have a shot to throw out a runner at home if caught. Anything deeper the runner on 3rd scores regardless if caught or not. Machado's ball hit to Walker was just far enough as JWalk made a strong throw home.

In both scenarios above , Oli and his coaches made good moves IMO to try to help them prevent the winning run there. It's a tough situation . In more cases than not the offense will probably get that runner home but I have seen teams get out of that pickle here and there.

[AnExParrot]

Do you really think anyone here needed that mansplaining of setting up a double play and the potential double play possibilities after it was set up?

[WLTFE]

Do you really think anyone here needed that mansplaining of setting up a double play and the potential double play possibilities after it was set up?

+1...the OP makes many posts like this one...

[Basil Shabazz]

Did we really need the third-grade baseball strategy seminar here? This reads more like either a “look how smart I am” post or another attempt to prop up Oli for making moves every manager in baseball makes in that situation.

[Ordinary Man]

Yeah, this is "well, DUH 101". Oli's got MOY locked up already.

[Jatalk]

I don’t like the extra inning rules if you are going to automatically put a man on second. It gives a huge advantage to home team batting second.

Certainly the same advantage applies to football but in that case they at least flip a coin to see who gets the ball first.

Why not do that in baseball. Flip a coin and winner chooses batting first or second. You can justify it because both teams have played to a tie. Visiting team should not be punished by home field advantage since they played nine and home team did not take advantage of being home.

[ramfandan]

I don’t like the extra inning rules if you are going to automatically put a man on second. It gives a huge advantage to home team batting second.

Certainly the same advantage applies to football but in that case they at least flip a coin to see who gets the ball first.

Why not do that in baseball. Flip a coin and winner chooses batting first or second. You can justify it because both teams have played to a tie. Visiting team should not be punished by home field advantage since they played nine and home team did not take advantage of being home.

Interesting concept ... For the coin flip , would you have the 'visitors' call the flip as in NFL. Then I wonder how many times the team that wins the flip would elect to go first vs . second ? Most would probably say , winning the flip would have you go last. If the game was still tied , I guess the order remains the same for subsequent innings.

[Cardinals1964]

The intentional walk to start the inning was stupid. Shall I mansplain it?
A double play doesn’t end the inning. So, you pitch to the first guy. If he does advance the runner, then you intentionally walk the next guy with one out and set up the double play to end the game.

Why? Because if there’s a walk then your pitcher has no room for error with the bases loaded. Just like what happened.

In my situation they would have been able to walk Machado and pitch to .209 hitting Sheets.

[rockondlouie]

While (possibly) a solid move under some circumstances I didn't like the choice of walking Merrill (worse vs RHP .222 .300 .368 .668 than he is vs LHP this season) and trying to setup a double play w/Tatis (84th percentile in sprint speed) who has elite speed.

The move (IMO) was to go after Merrill and if you get him out, then walk Tatis (1st & 2nd) and setup the double vs Machado (bottom 3% sprint speed) who's as slow as molasses.

Good idea, not executed properly.

JMO

[HorseTrader]

Though the Padres won the game on the sac fly, the Cardinals coaching staff made moves to try to maximize their chances to keep Padres from scoring.

First, after TV commercial cameras showed Oli, Descalso, Molina in discussion in the dugout. One could assume they were discussing how they would play the 'runner on 2nd ' situation to try to prevent the winning run from scoring.

First, they gave intentional pass to put a runner on 1st. This set up a double play possible to try to get 2 outs quickly on an infield ground ball. (The added runner on 1st has no bearing in the game for scoring as the lead runner is the winning run not the trail runner at 1st )
Best case scenario would be a grounder to 3rd base or SS where the lead runner could be forced at 3rd followed by a throw to 1st .. result would be 2 outs with runner on 2nd Next best is a ball hit to JJ and start the double play Winn to Burley for 2 outs with runner on 2nd going to 3rd.
In either scenario you have two outs and it takes a hit to score the lead runner. (Note: Yes, if the runner is on 3rd a wild pitch can be a winner to score the guy from 3rd but generally it takes a hit .. no fly ball sacrifce in play since 2 outs )

After the pitcher walked the bases loaded, then the Cardinals applied the 5-man infield you see managers do bringing in weakest arm OF .. playing 3 defenders on left side of IF and two on the right side playing in on edge of grass as they have to throw home for the force at home. The two OF both playing in LC and RC but only deep enough where they have a shot to throw out a runner at home if caught. Anything deeper the runner on 3rd scores regardless if caught or not. Machado's ball hit to Walker was just far enough as JWalk made a strong throw home.

In both scenarios above , Oli and his coaches made good moves IMO to try to help them prevent the winning run there. It's a tough situation . In more cases than not the offense will probably get that runner home but I have seen teams get out of that pickle here and there.

"
Best case scenario would be a grounder to 3rd base or SS where the lead runner ......" Is incorrect. Best case would be hard grounder to 3rd, throw to 2nd, throw to 1st Triple play. Another possible best is 9 straight strikes for 3 outs.

[Hoosier59]

Did we really need the third-grade baseball strategy seminar here? This reads more like either a “look how smart I am” post or another attempt to prop up Oli for making moves every manager in baseball makes in that situation.

Yes, but he had to have DeScalso and Yadi tell him to do it!

[10CWilliams]

I don’t like the extra inning rules if you are going to automatically put a man on second. It gives a huge advantage to home team batting second.

Certainly the same advantage applies to football but in that case they at least flip a coin to see who gets the ball first.

Why not do that in baseball. Flip a coin and winner chooses batting first or second. You can justify it because both teams have played to a tie. Visiting team should not be punished by home field advantage since they played nine and home team did not take advantage of being home.

They've already got all of your money; it's time to send everyone home.

[Ozziesfan41]

I don’t like the extra inning rules if you are going to automatically put a man on second. It gives a huge advantage to home team batting second.

Certainly the same advantage applies to football but in that case they at least flip a coin to see who gets the ball first.

Why not do that in baseball. Flip a coin and winner chooses batting first or second. You can justify it because both teams have played to a tie. Visiting team should not be punished by home field advantage since they played nine and home team did not take advantage of being home.

That’s a terrible idea

[sdaltons]

I didn't like the approach. Yes I understand the double play and yes I understand playing the splits. But you also have to consider the part of the lineup coming up.

But in this case, walking the leadoff guy forced our rookie pitcher to have to be darn near perfect with Machado and Tatis.

You go after and get Merrill, then you can pick one of the big guys to challenge and walk the other one.

I also wouldn't have lifted Church for Fermin.

[Ozziesfan41]

I didn't like the approach. Yes I understand the double play and yes I understand playing the splits. But you also have to consider the part of the lineup coming up.

But in this case, walking the leadoff guy forced our rookie pitcher to have to be darn near perfect with Machado and Tatis.

You go after and get Merrill, then you can pick one of the big guys to challenge and walk the other one.

I also wouldn't have lifted Church for Fermin.

I think oli played it right it just didnt work out. Tatis is fast but hits the ball hard and as they pointed out has been a groundball machine this season. What hurt the tatis at bat is worthless pages turning strike one into ball one by not being able to catch it.

[Absolut]

The intentional walk to start the inning was stupid. Shall I mansplain it?
A double play doesn’t end the inning. So, you pitch to the first guy. If he does advance the runner, then you intentionally walk the next guy with one out and set up the double play to end the game.

Why? Because if there’s a walk then your pitcher has no room for error with the bases loaded. Just like what happened.

In my situation they would have been able to walk Machado and pitch to .209 hitting Sheets.

If ground ball turns 2 va 1 out and runner on third.
35% chance of scoring vs 66%.