Athletic: Bjorck & Gustafsson

[STL fan in MN]

I would be pretty elated if we came away with Bjorck and Gustafsson with those 2 picks, especially Bjorck. He’s getting way undervalued IMO. He’s legit and IMO, would be in consideration for 1st overall if he was 6’0” instead of 5’10”. His skills are very high and he has pretty much elite hockey sense and compete level. I just absolutely love watching him play. He just has “it”. He’s also very responsible defensively as an undersized teenage winger playing in one of the top pro leagues in the world and that’s quite impressive. I think there’s a decent chance he gets pushed to wing given his size but he’s the type of talent I would bet on every time. Like most, I’d prefer players with size but this kid’s talent, smarts and effort are that much higher than almost all of them so at some point, those attributes win out.

Gustafsson is also very good but less of a need as he’s a LD. But he very well may be the BPA at 15.

I have Bjorck at 6 and Gustafsson at 12 so yeah, I’d very likely be very happy to get both at 11 and 15…but it all depends on how the draft shakes out and what other teams do as well.

[Rollin' on the River]

I don’t know Björk. The size gives me paw, but he’s ultra competitive and plays bigger than he is. But how’s that gonna translate in a much more physical league than the one he was in is the question even if he has to move to wing, I mean his playmaking ability would really help on this team that has no play drivers. And then the Logan Stankovens of the world exist and skill trumps size. But that’s more of an outlier than a rule. I hope he’s gone before we have to make the choice. Because I don’t think it would be an easy one to make

[Walter Sobchak00]

That would be one of the best outcomes, IMO, though if Rudolph is there at 11, he’s the pick. Bjorck is going to be a stud.

I saw an article on Bjorck. They said he has incredible hockey intelligence and he's very creative. Picking where we are, I would be happy to have him. I think he will be a very good NHLer. We need centers.

It's the center part that's in doubt.
There's not a lot of 5'10" centers in the league and there are reasons for that. Bjorck could be one of those players that go against the mold(he's got the all-around game for the position and he seems to be strong enough even at his stature), but there's a lot of risk involved if you're counting on him to stick at center.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Bjorck and I'd be happy to take him even if he does shift to wing(Bjorck's playmaking next to Dvorsky shot would be a heck of a combination). But I wouldn't count too heavily on him sticking at center. I'd still be looking to address the center position with our other picks. I don't know if I'd use the Detroit pick to do it, but I would absolutely be considering it with the Colorado pick.

I agree. I’ve been fairly adamant that the draft might shape up for us to select a specific positional need with either 11 or 15, depending how guys like Rudolph, Belchetz, & Lawrence fall around 11 and then Piiparinen & Hemming… maybe Ryan Lin?

I don’t like the idea of experimenting with a smaller RHD, preferring to take a bigger guy, but when I see a series with Caleb Makar & Quinn Hughes taking over, it’s hard to not think maybe Lin could be that?

WJC-##

• WJC-18 Ryan Lin - 6 Gm, 6 Points (1 G, 5 A), +7

• WJC-20 C. Makar - 7 Gm, 8 Points (3 G, 5 A), +5

• WJC-18 Q Hughes - 7 Gm, 5 Points (1 G, 5 A), +6

• WJC-20 Q Hughes - 7 Gm, 3 Points (0 G, 3 A), +1

International

• YOG Cup Canada U16 Lin - 4 Gm, 5 Points (1 G, 4 A) +6

• HG Cup Canada U18 Lin - 5 Gm, 5 Points (2 G, 3 A +9)

Brick Invitational

• Ryan Lin - 8 Gm, 3 Points (0 G, 3 A)

• Q Hughes - 5 Gm, 3 Points (2 G, 1 A)

Junior Hockey League

• WHL Age 16/17 Ryan Lin - 60 Gm, 53 Points (5 G, 48 A) +11

• WHL Age 17/18 Ryan Lin - 53 Gm, 57 Points (14 G, 43 A) -19

• AJHL Age 17 Makar - 54 Gm, 55 Points (10 G, 45 A) N/A

• AJHL Age 18 Makar - 54 Gm, 75 Points (24 G, 51 A) N/A

• USHL Age 17 Hughes - 34 Gm, 11 Points (4 G, 7 A) -12

• NTDP Age 17 Hughes - 57 Gm, 24 Points (7 G, 17 A) N/A

• USHL Age 18 Hughes - 26 Gm, 26 Points (4 G, 22 A) -1

• NTDP Age 17 Hughes - 65 Gm, 53 Points (10 G, 43 A) N/A

Post Season

• WHL Cup Age 17 Lin - 5 Gm, 2 Points (0 G, 2 A) N/A

• RBC Cup Age 17 Makar - 5 Gm, 7 Points (4 G, 3 A) N/A

• RBC Cup Age 18 Makar - 5 Gm, 6 Points (2 G, 4 A) N/A

• OHL Cup Age 17 Hughes - 3 Gm, 0 Points (0 G, 0 A) N/A

• OHL Cup Age 18 Hughes - 5 Gm, 4 Points (2 G, 2 A) N/A

Then the potential around late First Round w/Command, Cullen, Shilov, Chrenko, Hextall, Ruck, Ryder, and maybe a guy like Casey Mutryn feels like a solid group to bet on.

If Lin could do what Makar and Hughes do, he wouldn’t be talked about as a 15-20 pick.

Lin is an inch shorter and 6 lbs less than Buium... weren't you in love with Buium and wanted the Blues to trade up for him?

Yes. I still think that would’ve been a better pic than the one we made. Buium’s defensive game on draft day was far ahead of what Ryan Lin’s is right now.

They won't need to rush him. Plenty of time to develop that.

I'd prefer 2 Forwards

[Francis Park Thug]

You guys don't realize how lucky we have it here on Blues Talk. Not just one but two players generally considered to be in the top 15-20 of this draft class are never going to play in the NHL and only a poster here has figured it out.

These players have scouts, journalists, experts fooled, but not our Trollin. Pretty special.

You mean the same poster that hates the signings of Broberg and Holloway?
He thought the offer sheets were stupid…..that genius?

Yes, we truly are in the company of greatness

At least you guys are starting to recognize it without prompting. You’re learning. That’s great. Keep listening. Keep reading.

Yesterday you posted you wanted Klepov at 11 or 15.
But by most "experts," he is ranked in the 20's.
Remember, you didn't like the Snuggy or Dvo pick.
I guarentee this. Unless the Blues pick is Klepov, you will hate the pick.

Not necessarily. And the only reason he’s ranked in the 20s is because he has one season of OHL production under his belt on a really bad team. There’s a few drafts that actually have him higher than that.

I was not knocking Klepov. I really don't know anything [other than what I read here]
about him. You also said you were taking Rudolf if he was available.
I am sorry for leaving that off. So, thanks for putting your pick out there.

[Rollin' on the River]

You guys don't realize how lucky we have it here on Blues Talk. Not just one but two players generally considered to be in the top 15-20 of this draft class are never going to play in the NHL and only a poster here has figured it out.

These players have scouts, journalists, experts fooled, but not our Trollin. Pretty special.

You mean the same poster that hates the signings of Broberg and Holloway?
He thought the offer sheets were stupid…..that genius?

Yes, we truly are in the company of greatness

At least you guys are starting to recognize it without prompting. You’re learning. That’s great. Keep listening. Keep reading.

Yesterday you posted you wanted Klepov at 11 or 15.
But by most "experts," he is ranked in the 20's.
Remember, you didn't like the Snuggy or Dvo pick.
I guarentee this. Unless the Blues pick is Klepov, you will hate the pick.

Not necessarily. And the only reason he’s ranked in the 20s is because he has one season of OHL production under his belt on a really bad team. There’s a few drafts that actually have him higher than that.

I was not knocking Klepov. I really don't know anything [other than what I read here]
about him. You also said you were taking Rudolf if he was available.
I am sorry for leaving that off. So, thanks for putting your pick out there.

No worries. It’s not like there’s anything else to do at this point in the year lol the draft a month and a half away.

[sdaltons]

I don’t know Björk. The size gives me paw, but he’s ultra competitive and plays bigger than he is. But how’s that gonna translate in a much more physical league than the one he was in is the question even if he has to move to wing, I mean his playmaking ability would really help on this team that has no play drivers. And then the Logan Stankovens of the world exist and skill trumps size. But that’s more of an outlier than a rule. I hope he’s gone before we have to make the choice. Because I don’t think it would be an easy one to make

Is "the size" a dog?

[MandatoryDenial]

With the lottery in place, they have us with Bjorck and Gustafsson...

Yeah that is a disaster IMHO. We need to avoid that at all costs even if it means packaging #30 to get a better pick. I would absolutely want us to get one of the big D-men.

[Lets_Clinch]

That would be one of the best outcomes, IMO, though if Rudolph is there at 11, he’s the pick. Bjorck is going to be a stud.

I saw an article on Bjorck. They said he has incredible hockey intelligence and he's very creative. Picking where we are, I would be happy to have him. I think he will be a very good NHLer. We need centers.

It's the center part that's in doubt.
There's not a lot of 5'10" centers in the league and there are reasons for that. Bjorck could be one of those players that go against the mold(he's got the all-around game for the position and he seems to be strong enough even at his stature), but there's a lot of risk involved if you're counting on him to stick at center.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Bjorck and I'd be happy to take him even if he does shift to wing(Bjorck's playmaking next to Dvorsky shot would be a heck of a combination). But I wouldn't count too heavily on him sticking at center. I'd still be looking to address the center position with our other picks. I don't know if I'd use the Detroit pick to do it, but I would absolutely be considering it with the Colorado pick.

I agree. I’ve been fairly adamant that the draft might shape up for us to select a specific positional need with either 11 or 15, depending how guys like Rudolph, Belchetz, & Lawrence fall around 11 and then Piiparinen & Hemming… maybe Ryan Lin?

I don’t like the idea of experimenting with a smaller RHD, preferring to take a bigger guy, but when I see a series with Caleb Makar & Quinn Hughes taking over, it’s hard to not think maybe Lin could be that?

WJC-##

• WJC-18 Ryan Lin - 6 Gm, 6 Points (1 G, 5 A), +7

• WJC-20 C. Makar - 7 Gm, 8 Points (3 G, 5 A), +5

• WJC-18 Q Hughes - 7 Gm, 5 Points (1 G, 5 A), +6

• WJC-20 Q Hughes - 7 Gm, 3 Points (0 G, 3 A), +1

International

• YOG Cup Canada U16 Lin - 4 Gm, 5 Points (1 G, 4 A) +6

• HG Cup Canada U18 Lin - 5 Gm, 5 Points (2 G, 3 A +9)

Brick Invitational

• Ryan Lin - 8 Gm, 3 Points (0 G, 3 A)

• Q Hughes - 5 Gm, 3 Points (2 G, 1 A)

Junior Hockey League

• WHL Age 16/17 Ryan Lin - 60 Gm, 53 Points (5 G, 48 A) +11

• WHL Age 17/18 Ryan Lin - 53 Gm, 57 Points (14 G, 43 A) -19

• AJHL Age 17 Makar - 54 Gm, 55 Points (10 G, 45 A) N/A

• AJHL Age 18 Makar - 54 Gm, 75 Points (24 G, 51 A) N/A

• USHL Age 17 Hughes - 34 Gm, 11 Points (4 G, 7 A) -12

• NTDP Age 17 Hughes - 57 Gm, 24 Points (7 G, 17 A) N/A

• USHL Age 18 Hughes - 26 Gm, 26 Points (4 G, 22 A) -1

• NTDP Age 17 Hughes - 65 Gm, 53 Points (10 G, 43 A) N/A

Post Season

• WHL Cup Age 17 Lin - 5 Gm, 2 Points (0 G, 2 A) N/A

• RBC Cup Age 17 Makar - 5 Gm, 7 Points (4 G, 3 A) N/A

• RBC Cup Age 18 Makar - 5 Gm, 6 Points (2 G, 4 A) N/A

• OHL Cup Age 17 Hughes - 3 Gm, 0 Points (0 G, 0 A) N/A

• OHL Cup Age 18 Hughes - 5 Gm, 4 Points (2 G, 2 A) N/A

Then the potential around late First Round w/Command, Cullen, Shilov, Chrenko, Hextall, Ruck, Ryder, and maybe a guy like Casey Mutryn feels like a solid group to bet on.

If Lin could do what Makar and Hughes do, he wouldn’t be talked about as a 15-20 pick.

Lin is an inch shorter and 6 lbs less than Buium... weren't you in love with Buium and wanted the Blues to trade up for him?

Yup, he was. He likes men his size.

[sdaltons]

I don’t know Björk. The size gives me paw, but he’s ultra competitive and plays bigger than he is. But how’s that gonna translate in a much more physical league than the one he was in is the question even if he has to move to wing, I mean his playmaking ability would really help on this team that has no play drivers. And then the Logan Stankovens of the world exist and skill trumps size. But that’s more of an outlier than a rule. I hope he’s gone before we have to make the choice. Because I don’t think it would be an easy one to make

I still want to know more about Björk's size giving trollin paw. Like did you make it sit first?

[Sweetred95ta]

A guy on Reddit was making a case for the Canucks to pick Bjorck in the 3rd slot. People who have watched him rave about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/commen ... ck_at_3rd/

I don't understand why Viggo Bjorck isn't in the consideration for the 3OA pick. I think there's a solid chance he is the best player in the draft as a whole. First off, he has the best resume of any player not named McKenna in the draft:

Sweden U18 scoring record
Sweden U20 scoring record
Key WJC player at age 17 (a year younger than Stenberg and McKenna) he played almost the entire last 5 minutes and much of overtime.
Full-time SHL player at 17, 42-6-9-15 and 3-1-2-3 in playoffs.

I have watched him live with Djurgardens as well and my read on his game:
In my viewings he was equal or better than Eklund and Frondell, in terms of skating, puckhandling, physicality and finding space in a tight mens game. He's a super powerful skater, huge lower body, and protects the puck like Crosby. More than physically handles himself in mens game. In particular I watched him vs. Brynas where he scored and was one of the best players on the ice in a game that had 10-15 former or near future NHLers.

Last, and this shouldn't matter as much, but he's a center, and will be in the NHL. Caleb Malhotra was playing the BCHL last year. He would get CAVED playing in any of the levels (WJC, SHL) that Viggo played this year and for some reason he has more hype to go 3? To me this is pure insanity. The only, and literally the ONLY drawback is he is 5'9''. IMO he is the clear-cut 3rd best player in the class. But like I said, his power and strength protecting the puck against men should make up for this in his career, Crosby is quite short as well but very strong.

So I'm asking, besides his height, why would we not take this player at 3rd? How is he not a better prospect than a PPG OHL defenseman (Reid), a hyped Ekblad type who makes lots of bad reads (Verhoeff), or a 1.3 PPG OHL center playing on the highest scoring team in the league (Malhotra)? No one in the draft outside of McKenberg have any sort of statistical comps. And I would bet good money that Viggo blows Stenberg's production out of the water next year in the SHL at the same age.

[STL fan in MN]

A guy on Reddit was making a case for the Canucks to pick Bjorck in the 3rd slot. People who have watched him rave about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/commen ... ck_at_3rd/

I don't understand why Viggo Bjorck isn't in the consideration for the 3OA pick. I think there's a solid chance he is the best player in the draft as a whole. First off, he has the best resume of any player not named McKenna in the draft:

Sweden U18 scoring record
Sweden U20 scoring record
Key WJC player at age 17 (a year younger than Stenberg and McKenna) he played almost the entire last 5 minutes and much of overtime.
Full-time SHL player at 17, 42-6-9-15 and 3-1-2-3 in playoffs.

I have watched him live with Djurgardens as well and my read on his game:
In my viewings he was equal or better than Eklund and Frondell, in terms of skating, puckhandling, physicality and finding space in a tight mens game. He's a super powerful skater, huge lower body, and protects the puck like Crosby. More than physically handles himself in mens game. In particular I watched him vs. Brynas where he scored and was one of the best players on the ice in a game that had 10-15 former or near future NHLers.

Last, and this shouldn't matter as much, but he's a center, and will be in the NHL. Caleb Malhotra was playing the BCHL last year. He would get CAVED playing in any of the levels (WJC, SHL) that Viggo played this year and for some reason he has more hype to go 3? To me this is pure insanity. The only, and literally the ONLY drawback is he is 5'9''. IMO he is the clear-cut 3rd best player in the class. But like I said, his power and strength protecting the puck against men should make up for this in his career, Crosby is quite short as well but very strong.

So I'm asking, besides his height, why would we not take this player at 3rd? How is he not a better prospect than a PPG OHL defenseman (Reid), a hyped Ekblad type who makes lots of bad reads (Verhoeff), or a 1.3 PPG OHL center playing on the highest scoring team in the league (Malhotra)? No one in the draft outside of McKenberg have any sort of statistical comps. And I would bet good money that Viggo blows Stenberg's production out of the water next year in the SHL at the same age.

That poster’s read on Bjorck isn’t wrong IMO. As I said earlier in this thread, I bet he’d be challenging for 1st overall if he was closer to 6 feet tall. I do think he’s going to measure in closer to 5’10” than 5’9” at the Combine next month but I guess we’ll see.

He was the 1C and arguably Sweden’s best player at the WJCs (either him or Stenberg. Both were excellent and drove the bus for the Swedes) as a 17 yr old, helping to lead them to their first Gold in a very long time.

He’s now doing quite well on Sweden’s Sr team and I bet he ends up making the cut for their World Championships team, which again, would be a pretty insane accomplishment for a 17/18 yr old.

One thing I pay attention to in the draft is age. A lot of the top players this season are late 2007 births. Stenberg for example missed last year’s draft by just a couple weeks. So he and a lot of other players in this draft are 1 development year ahead of Bjorck. McKenna, Stenberg, Reid and Smits are all late ‘07s. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re overrated or anything but there is a ton of data out there that would point to older players in the draft being overdrafted a bit and younger players being underdrafted a bit. This happens because we naturally confuse physical development with longterm potential and the younger ones are oftentimes discounted. That 6-11 month difference may not seem like a lot, and won’t really matter once these guys are in their mid-20s and beyond, but it does absolutely matter at this age, as shown by years and years of data.

I wouldn’t take Bjorck at 3 and he absolutely is undersized but he also absolutely has all the tools and brain to be a star in this league. Higher potential than a good number of guys that’ll go ahead of him.

[Ty Webb]

A guy on Reddit was making a case for the Canucks to pick Bjorck in the 3rd slot. People who have watched him rave about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/commen ... ck_at_3rd/

I don't understand why Viggo Bjorck isn't in the consideration for the 3OA pick. I think there's a solid chance he is the best player in the draft as a whole. First off, he has the best resume of any player not named McKenna in the draft:

Sweden U18 scoring record
Sweden U20 scoring record
Key WJC player at age 17 (a year younger than Stenberg and McKenna) he played almost the entire last 5 minutes and much of overtime.
Full-time SHL player at 17, 42-6-9-15 and 3-1-2-3 in playoffs.

I have watched him live with Djurgardens as well and my read on his game:
In my viewings he was equal or better than Eklund and Frondell, in terms of skating, puckhandling, physicality and finding space in a tight mens game. He's a super powerful skater, huge lower body, and protects the puck like Crosby. More than physically handles himself in mens game. In particular I watched him vs. Brynas where he scored and was one of the best players on the ice in a game that had 10-15 former or near future NHLers.

Last, and this shouldn't matter as much, but he's a center, and will be in the NHL. Caleb Malhotra was playing the BCHL last year. He would get CAVED playing in any of the levels (WJC, SHL) that Viggo played this year and for some reason he has more hype to go 3? To me this is pure insanity. The only, and literally the ONLY drawback is he is 5'9''. IMO he is the clear-cut 3rd best player in the class. But like I said, his power and strength protecting the puck against men should make up for this in his career, Crosby is quite short as well but very strong.

So I'm asking, besides his height, why would we not take this player at 3rd? How is he not a better prospect than a PPG OHL defenseman (Reid), a hyped Ekblad type who makes lots of bad reads (Verhoeff), or a 1.3 PPG OHL center playing on the highest scoring team in the league (Malhotra)? No one in the draft outside of McKenberg have any sort of statistical comps. And I would bet good money that Viggo blows Stenberg's production out of the water next year in the SHL at the same age.

That poster’s read on Bjorck isn’t wrong IMO. As I said earlier in this thread, I bet he’d be challenging for 1st overall if he was closer to 6 feet tall. I do think he’s going to measure in closer to 5’10” than 5’9” at the Combine next month but I guess we’ll see.

He was the 1C and arguably Sweden’s best player at the WJCs (either him or Stenberg. Both were excellent and drove the bus for the Swedes) as a 17 yr old, helping to lead them to their first Gold in a very long time.

He’s now doing quite well on Sweden’s Sr team and I bet he ends up making the cut for their World Championships team, which again, would be a pretty insane accomplishment for a 17/18 yr old.

One thing I pay attention to in the draft is age. A lot of the top players this season are late 2007 births. Stenberg for example missed last year’s draft by just a couple weeks. So he and a lot of other players in this draft are 1 development year ahead of Bjorck. McKenna, Stenberg, Reid and Smits are all late ‘07s. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re overrated or anything but there is a ton of data out there that would point to older players in the draft being overdrafted a bit and younger players being underdrafted a bit. This happens because we naturally confuse physical development with longterm potential and the younger ones are oftentimes discounted. That 6-11 month difference may not seem like a lot, and won’t really matter once these guys are in their mid-20s and beyond, but it does absolutely matter at this age, as shown by years and years of data.

I wouldn’t take Bjorck at 3 and he absolutely is undersized but he also absolutely has all the tools and brain to be a star in this league. Higher potential than a good number of guys that’ll go ahead of him.

How would you compare him to Malhorta? I know Tim isn't a fan of Malhorta, but wondering how you see him. And I realize we have little chance of drafting him without moving up quite a bit.

[STL fan in MN]

A guy on Reddit was making a case for the Canucks to pick Bjorck in the 3rd slot. People who have watched him rave about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/commen ... ck_at_3rd/

I don't understand why Viggo Bjorck isn't in the consideration for the 3OA pick. I think there's a solid chance he is the best player in the draft as a whole. First off, he has the best resume of any player not named McKenna in the draft:

Sweden U18 scoring record
Sweden U20 scoring record
Key WJC player at age 17 (a year younger than Stenberg and McKenna) he played almost the entire last 5 minutes and much of overtime.
Full-time SHL player at 17, 42-6-9-15 and 3-1-2-3 in playoffs.

I have watched him live with Djurgardens as well and my read on his game:
In my viewings he was equal or better than Eklund and Frondell, in terms of skating, puckhandling, physicality and finding space in a tight mens game. He's a super powerful skater, huge lower body, and protects the puck like Crosby. More than physically handles himself in mens game. In particular I watched him vs. Brynas where he scored and was one of the best players on the ice in a game that had 10-15 former or near future NHLers.

Last, and this shouldn't matter as much, but he's a center, and will be in the NHL. Caleb Malhotra was playing the BCHL last year. He would get CAVED playing in any of the levels (WJC, SHL) that Viggo played this year and for some reason he has more hype to go 3? To me this is pure insanity. The only, and literally the ONLY drawback is he is 5'9''. IMO he is the clear-cut 3rd best player in the class. But like I said, his power and strength protecting the puck against men should make up for this in his career, Crosby is quite short as well but very strong.

So I'm asking, besides his height, why would we not take this player at 3rd? How is he not a better prospect than a PPG OHL defenseman (Reid), a hyped Ekblad type who makes lots of bad reads (Verhoeff), or a 1.3 PPG OHL center playing on the highest scoring team in the league (Malhotra)? No one in the draft outside of McKenberg have any sort of statistical comps. And I would bet good money that Viggo blows Stenberg's production out of the water next year in the SHL at the same age.

That poster’s read on Bjorck isn’t wrong IMO. As I said earlier in this thread, I bet he’d be challenging for 1st overall if he was closer to 6 feet tall. I do think he’s going to measure in closer to 5’10” than 5’9” at the Combine next month but I guess we’ll see.

He was the 1C and arguably Sweden’s best player at the WJCs (either him or Stenberg. Both were excellent and drove the bus for the Swedes) as a 17 yr old, helping to lead them to their first Gold in a very long time.

He’s now doing quite well on Sweden’s Sr team and I bet he ends up making the cut for their World Championships team, which again, would be a pretty insane accomplishment for a 17/18 yr old.

One thing I pay attention to in the draft is age. A lot of the top players this season are late 2007 births. Stenberg for example missed last year’s draft by just a couple weeks. So he and a lot of other players in this draft are 1 development year ahead of Bjorck. McKenna, Stenberg, Reid and Smits are all late ‘07s. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re overrated or anything but there is a ton of data out there that would point to older players in the draft being overdrafted a bit and younger players being underdrafted a bit. This happens because we naturally confuse physical development with longterm potential and the younger ones are oftentimes discounted. That 6-11 month difference may not seem like a lot, and won’t really matter once these guys are in their mid-20s and beyond, but it does absolutely matter at this age, as shown by years and years of data.

I wouldn’t take Bjorck at 3 and he absolutely is undersized but he also absolutely has all the tools and brain to be a star in this league. Higher potential than a good number of guys that’ll go ahead of him.

How would you compare him to Malhorta? I know Tim isn't a fan of Malhorta, but wondering how you see him. And I realize we have little chance of drafting him without moving up quite a bit.

I have Malhotra at 5 and Bjorck at 6 but I could easily flip flop them. I also question Malhotra’s longterm offensive potential a bit. He seems be getting hyped as a potential or even likely 1C or even a potential elite superstar stud but I just don’t see that. I see a very likely high quality 2C.

Bjorck absolutely has higher potential than Malhotra but Malhotra is a safer bet because he’s 6’2”. It sucks but that’s the hard truth when you’re considering an undersized player. But obviously undersized forwards are less of a risk than undersized d-men.

Malhotra is skilled and I really like his compete level but take him off a loaded Brantford team and I bet the hype on him would be a bit less. TBH, when looking at translatable NHL skills, I really don’t see much separation between Malhotra and Lawrence. Malhotra has a couple inches of a size advantage and he “proved it” more than Lawrence this season but so often we see when we look at drafts 5-10 years later, a lot of where players are drafted ends up being based on situational circumstances like what team a player played on and how much icetime/opportunity they got. I’ve said it countless times but that’s why I really value translatable skills more than points. These kids are playing in vastly different settings (jrs, college, Euro jrs, Euro pro, high school etc) that it’s extremely hard to compare apples to apples. And some are early bloomers and then stall and others are late bloomers. The best players at 17/18 tend to more or less still be the best players at 25+ but it’s a very inexact science with a ton of exceptions in both directions and truly determining which kid is the best given the vastly different leagues they all play in during their draft year makes is near impossible to get it exactly right when you have to choose after their 17/18 yr old season.

[Pierre McGuire]

A guy on Reddit was making a case for the Canucks to pick Bjorck in the 3rd slot. People who have watched him rave about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/commen ... ck_at_3rd/

I don't understand why Viggo Bjorck isn't in the consideration for the 3OA pick. I think there's a solid chance he is the best player in the draft as a whole. First off, he has the best resume of any player not named McKenna in the draft:

Sweden U18 scoring record
Sweden U20 scoring record
Key WJC player at age 17 (a year younger than Stenberg and McKenna) he played almost the entire last 5 minutes and much of overtime.
Full-time SHL player at 17, 42-6-9-15 and 3-1-2-3 in playoffs.

I have watched him live with Djurgardens as well and my read on his game:
In my viewings he was equal or better than Eklund and Frondell, in terms of skating, puckhandling, physicality and finding space in a tight mens game. He's a super powerful skater, huge lower body, and protects the puck like Crosby. More than physically handles himself in mens game. In particular I watched him vs. Brynas where he scored and was one of the best players on the ice in a game that had 10-15 former or near future NHLers.

Last, and this shouldn't matter as much, but he's a center, and will be in the NHL. Caleb Malhotra was playing the BCHL last year. He would get CAVED playing in any of the levels (WJC, SHL) that Viggo played this year and for some reason he has more hype to go 3? To me this is pure insanity. The only, and literally the ONLY drawback is he is 5'9''. IMO he is the clear-cut 3rd best player in the class. But like I said, his power and strength protecting the puck against men should make up for this in his career, Crosby is quite short as well but very strong.

So I'm asking, besides his height, why would we not take this player at 3rd? How is he not a better prospect than a PPG OHL defenseman (Reid), a hyped Ekblad type who makes lots of bad reads (Verhoeff), or a 1.3 PPG OHL center playing on the highest scoring team in the league (Malhotra)? No one in the draft outside of McKenberg have any sort of statistical comps. And I would bet good money that Viggo blows Stenberg's production out of the water next year in the SHL at the same age.

That poster’s read on Bjorck isn’t wrong IMO. As I said earlier in this thread, I bet he’d be challenging for 1st overall if he was closer to 6 feet tall. I do think he’s going to measure in closer to 5’10” than 5’9” at the Combine next month but I guess we’ll see.

He was the 1C and arguably Sweden’s best player at the WJCs (either him or Stenberg. Both were excellent and drove the bus for the Swedes) as a 17 yr old, helping to lead them to their first Gold in a very long time.

He’s now doing quite well on Sweden’s Sr team and I bet he ends up making the cut for their World Championships team, which again, would be a pretty insane accomplishment for a 17/18 yr old.

One thing I pay attention to in the draft is age. A lot of the top players this season are late 2007 births. Stenberg for example missed last year’s draft by just a couple weeks. So he and a lot of other players in this draft are 1 development year ahead of Bjorck. McKenna, Stenberg, Reid and Smits are all late ‘07s. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re overrated or anything but there is a ton of data out there that would point to older players in the draft being overdrafted a bit and younger players being underdrafted a bit. This happens because we naturally confuse physical development with longterm potential and the younger ones are oftentimes discounted. That 6-11 month difference may not seem like a lot, and won’t really matter once these guys are in their mid-20s and beyond, but it does absolutely matter at this age, as shown by years and years of data.

I wouldn’t take Bjorck at 3 and he absolutely is undersized but he also absolutely has all the tools and brain to be a star in this league. Higher potential than a good number of guys that’ll go ahead of him.

How would you compare him to Malhorta? I know Tim isn't a fan of Malhorta, but wondering how you see him. And I realize we have little chance of drafting him without moving up quite a bit.

I wouldn’t say I’m not a fan…i think any other year, he’s probably middle to late first rounder. I’d rather roll the dice on Bjorck if we are trying to position ourselves for a center.

[Bluesfan1978]

A guy on Reddit was making a case for the Canucks to pick Bjorck in the 3rd slot. People who have watched him rave about him.

https://www.reddit.com/r/canucks/commen ... ck_at_3rd/

I don't understand why Viggo Bjorck isn't in the consideration for the 3OA pick. I think there's a solid chance he is the best player in the draft as a whole. First off, he has the best resume of any player not named McKenna in the draft:

Sweden U18 scoring record
Sweden U20 scoring record
Key WJC player at age 17 (a year younger than Stenberg and McKenna) he played almost the entire last 5 minutes and much of overtime.
Full-time SHL player at 17, 42-6-9-15 and 3-1-2-3 in playoffs.

I have watched him live with Djurgardens as well and my read on his game:
In my viewings he was equal or better than Eklund and Frondell, in terms of skating, puckhandling, physicality and finding space in a tight mens game. He's a super powerful skater, huge lower body, and protects the puck like Crosby. More than physically handles himself in mens game. In particular I watched him vs. Brynas where he scored and was one of the best players on the ice in a game that had 10-15 former or near future NHLers.

Last, and this shouldn't matter as much, but he's a center, and will be in the NHL. Caleb Malhotra was playing the BCHL last year. He would get CAVED playing in any of the levels (WJC, SHL) that Viggo played this year and for some reason he has more hype to go 3? To me this is pure insanity. The only, and literally the ONLY drawback is he is 5'9''. IMO he is the clear-cut 3rd best player in the class. But like I said, his power and strength protecting the puck against men should make up for this in his career, Crosby is quite short as well but very strong.

So I'm asking, besides his height, why would we not take this player at 3rd? How is he not a better prospect than a PPG OHL defenseman (Reid), a hyped Ekblad type who makes lots of bad reads (Verhoeff), or a 1.3 PPG OHL center playing on the highest scoring team in the league (Malhotra)? No one in the draft outside of McKenberg have any sort of statistical comps. And I would bet good money that Viggo blows Stenberg's production out of the water next year in the SHL at the same age.

That poster’s read on Bjorck isn’t wrong IMO. As I said earlier in this thread, I bet he’d be challenging for 1st overall if he was closer to 6 feet tall. I do think he’s going to measure in closer to 5’10” than 5’9” at the Combine next month but I guess we’ll see.

He was the 1C and arguably Sweden’s best player at the WJCs (either him or Stenberg. Both were excellent and drove the bus for the Swedes) as a 17 yr old, helping to lead them to their first Gold in a very long time.

He’s now doing quite well on Sweden’s Sr team and I bet he ends up making the cut for their World Championships team, which again, would be a pretty insane accomplishment for a 17/18 yr old.

One thing I pay attention to in the draft is age. A lot of the top players this season are late 2007 births. Stenberg for example missed last year’s draft by just a couple weeks. So he and a lot of other players in this draft are 1 development year ahead of Bjorck. McKenna, Stenberg, Reid and Smits are all late ‘07s. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re overrated or anything but there is a ton of data out there that would point to older players in the draft being overdrafted a bit and younger players being underdrafted a bit. This happens because we naturally confuse physical development with longterm potential and the younger ones are oftentimes discounted. That 6-11 month difference may not seem like a lot, and won’t really matter once these guys are in their mid-20s and beyond, but it does absolutely matter at this age, as shown by years and years of data.

I wouldn’t take Bjorck at 3 and he absolutely is undersized but he also absolutely has all the tools and brain to be a star in this league. Higher potential than a good number of guys that’ll go ahead of him.

How would you compare him to Malhorta? I know Tim isn't a fan of Malhorta, but wondering how you see him. And I realize we have little chance of drafting him without moving up quite a bit.

I have Malhotra at 5 and Bjorck at 6 but I could easily flip flop them. I also question Malhotra’s longterm offensive potential a bit. He seems be getting hyped as a potential or even likely 1C or even a potential elite superstar stud but I just don’t see that. I see a very likely high quality 2C.

Bjorck absolutely has higher potential than Malhotra but Malhotra is a safer bet because he’s 6’2”. It sucks but that’s the hard truth when you’re considering an undersized player. But obviously undersized forwards are less of a risk than undersized d-men.

Malhotra is skilled and I really like his compete level but take him off a loaded Brantford team and I bet the hype on him would be a bit less. TBH, when looking at translatable NHL skills, I really don’t see much separation between Malhotra and Lawrence. Malhotra has a couple inches of a size advantage and he “proved it” more than Lawrence this season but so often we see when we look at drafts 5-10 years later, a lot of where players are drafted ends up being based on situational circumstances like what team a player played on and how much icetime/opportunity they got. I’ve said it countless times but that’s why I really value translatable skills more than points. These kids are playing in vastly different settings (jrs, college, Euro jrs, Euro pro, high school etc) that it’s extremely hard to compare apples to apples. And some are early bloomers and then stall and others are late bloomers. The best players at 17/18 tend to more or less still be the best players at 25+ but it’s a very inexact science with a ton of exceptions in both directions and truly determining which kid is the best given the vastly different leagues they all play in during their draft year makes is near impossible to get it exactly right when you have to choose after their 17/18 yr old season.

I think Lawrence is a sleeper and could be there at 11. He is the prime example of how much all these drafting experts make their predictions based on points and if he had 5-6 more points with Boston he probably would still be in the 5-10 range. He's young, switched 1/2 way through the year, played on a team that struggled offensively that has a coach that is a D first coach and played him on their 3rd line. I'd be happy with any of the 3 centres if the Blues are able to pull it off.

[skilles]

I think the size thing while A factor is a little exaggerated, its seems like every time a small guy don't make it its all about size when the truth is most don't make it at every size.

Someone ask "didn't we learn from Peru and Krug"

Reality is Krug was undrafted and would go pretty high in a redraft and Peru played more NHL games than many d picked before him that were much bigger.

Just because A guy is small and can't make it at the NHL level doesn't mean its because he is small. Peru did not fail to score on the pp because he was small, his skills just did not translate just like most big/huge guys skills just are not good enough at the NHL level.