Riley O'Brien

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hugeCardfan
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Riley O'Brien

Post by hugeCardfan »

I've had several discussions on the idea of trading him. I am against it based on his effectiveness and the fact we have 5 years of control. So I asked Chatgpt to weigh in on it. Follows:
Regarding the baseball St Louis Cardinals, I'm having an interesting chat regarding the closer, Riley O'Brien. Some suggest that he should be in the mix of those traded near the end of the season as he might bring a good trade. I disagree because I think a player who is 5 years under contract and pitching as well as he is in a vital role, that we should hold onto him and continue building a better bullpen. What do you think?
I'm curious what you would have said if I were inclined to trade O'Brien?
I lean closer to your view on this one.

For a club like the St. Louis Cardinals, the question is not simply “what can we get for a reliever?” — it is “how hard is it to replace cost-controlled late-inning stability?”

If Riley O'Brien is legitimately becoming a high-leverage bullpen arm and you control him for five more years, that has enormous value for a team trying to transition back into sustainable contention rather than conducting a full teardown.

A few reasons I think holding him makes sense:

Bullpens are finally becoming a strength again.
The Cardinals spent several years patching relief innings together. If O’Brien, Helsley, Romero, Kittredge-types, plus younger power arms start forming an identity, you do not casually subtract from that unless the return is overwhelming.
Cost-controlled relievers are disproportionately valuable now.
Teams pay huge money in free agency for bullpen certainty. If O’Brien gives you 70 quality innings at near-minimum salary, that is a competitive advantage.
The Cardinals are not built like a tanking organization.
This front office historically prefers “retool while remaining competitive.” Trading a controllable reliever only makes sense if:
they are clearly out of contention, AND
the return materially upgrades long-term upside.
Volatility cuts both ways.
The argument for trading relievers is fair: bullpen arms are volatile and injury-prone. A reliever’s value can evaporate quickly. So if another club views O’Brien as a late-inning monster and offers a premium prospect package, you at least listen.

But there is a difference between:

trading an expiring closer at peak value,
versus
trading a 5-years-controlled bullpen piece entering his prime.

Those are very different assets.

The more important question for St. Louis, in my opinion, is:
“Can this bullpen become a foundation while the young pitching matures?”

Because if:

Matthew Liberatore continues progressing,
Quinn Mathews arrives,
Graceffo becomes useful depth,
and the lineup stabilizes around players like JJ Wetherholt and others,

then a strong bullpen becomes a competitive accelerator.

That is exactly how many modern contenders bridge the gap from “decent” to “dangerous.”

I would only move O’Brien if:

the Cardinals are well out of the race by July/August,
AND another team offers a return disproportionate to a reliever,
AND the organization internally believes another power arm can replace him.

Otherwise, I would keep stacking bullpen talent rather than recycling it.

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************
I suspect some would say that I asked a leading question to chat or he might have answered differently. So, I asked:
I'm curious what you would have said if I were inclined to trade O'Brien?
I would have said the pro-trade argument is also very rational — especially in modern baseball.

The strongest case for trading Riley O'Brien would be this:

Relievers are among the most volatile assets in the sport.

A dominant bullpen arm today can become:

injured,
command-impaired,
overworked,
or simply average
very quickly.

Front offices know this, which is why smart organizations sometimes “sell high” on relievers before regression arrives.

The trade-O’Brien side would likely argue:

His value may never be higher.
If he is posting elite strikeout numbers with years of control, contenders will overpay because playoff teams desperately need bullpen help.
The Cardinals have bigger organizational needs.
St. Louis arguably needs:
top-end starting pitching,
middle-of-order impact bats,
and long-term athletic upside
more than one reliever.

Bullpens can be rebuilt faster than rotations.
Teams routinely discover effective relievers from:

failed starters,
waiver claims,
AAA power arms,
pitch-design projects.

Elite starters and middle-order hitters are much harder to acquire.

Timing matters.
If the Cardinals are hovering around .500 near the deadline, management could decide:
“By the time we’re truly ready to contend again, this bullpen configuration may already look different.”
Asset optimization.
Rays-style organizations often trade controllable relievers precisely because:
the market pays a premium,
reliever performance fluctuates,
and replacement cost is lower than for other positions.

And honestly, there is evidence for that philosophy across baseball.

The key difference comes down to organizational identity.

A club like the Tampa Bay Rays often maximizes asset turnover aggressively.

The St. Louis Cardinals historically value continuity, clubhouse structure, and maintaining a competitive floor. They are usually less inclined to constantly churn productive major-league pieces unless the return clearly improves long-term core talent.

So if you had argued for trading him, I would not have pushed back hard. I would probably frame it like this:

If O’Brien is merely “a good reliever,” trade consideration is reasonable.
If the organization internally believes he is evolving into a true shutdown late-inning anchor, then keeping him becomes more compelling.

That distinction matters a lot.

***********************************************

I feel like chat's discussion is pretty well balanced and think the last comment very relevant:
If O’Brien is merely “a good reliever,” trade consideration is reasonable.
If the organization internally believes he is evolving into a true shutdown late-inning anchor, then keeping him becomes more compelling.

That distinction matters a lot.
My sentiments exactly.
cardstatman
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by cardstatman »

Very good arguments!

The best trade rental candidates are the players not controlled after 2027:

JoJo Romero - 2026 only
Dustin May - 2026 only (2027 mutual option unlikely to be mutually exercised)
Ramon Urias 2026 only (2027 mutual option unlikely to be mutually exercised)
Ryne Stanek 2026 and 2027 team option for an extra $6M
Lars Nootbar 2026 and 2027

Since 2027 may be a strike year, IMHO, it would best to trade the them all (if they have value) before the trade deadline of 2026.

It seems likely to me that no trades will be possible next offseason (except a last minute flurry (during an possibly abbreviated and late spring training)!

All of above are candidates for extensions at market value, but then again all of the league's free agents are also available at market value.
hugeCardfan
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by hugeCardfan »

cardstatman wrote: 05 May 2026 22:44 pm Very good arguments!

The best trade rental candidates are the players not controlled after 2027:

JoJo Romero - 2026 only
Dustin May - 2026 only (2027 mutual option unlikely to be mutually exercised)
Ramon Urias 2026 only (2027 mutual option unlikely to be mutually exercised)
Ryne Stanek 2026 and 2027 team option for an extra $6M
Lars Nootbar 2026 and 2027

Since 2027 may be a strike year, IMHO, it would best to trade the them all (if they have value) before the trade deadline of 2026.

It seems likely to me that no trades will be possible next offseason (except a last minute flurry (during an possibly abbreviated and late spring training)!

All of above are candidates for extensions at market value, but then again all of the league's free agents are also available at market value.
+
I've made the same argument that you have regarding May's unlikelihood to exercise the option. Still, logic suggests that May might see it differently. Let's say he has a good year this year. He sees his market higher for '27 with the caveat that, if there is a strike, no one can predict how long it might last. If he hasn't already signed, he'll be FA wondering if there will be a '27 season...thus will anyone sign him? Perhaps that argument would prevail on him for the certainty of a contract once the bargaining is resolved. That would at least guarantee him the half million buyout fee.
cardstatman
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by cardstatman »

hugeCardfan wrote: 05 May 2026 22:54 pm
cardstatman wrote: 05 May 2026 22:44 pm Very good arguments!

The best trade rental candidates are the players not controlled after 2027:

JoJo Romero - 2026 only
Dustin May - 2026 only (2027 mutual option unlikely to be mutually exercised)
Ramon Urias 2026 only (2027 mutual option unlikely to be mutually exercised)
Ryne Stanek 2026 and 2027 team option for an extra $6M
Lars Nootbar 2026 and 2027

Since 2027 may be a strike year, IMHO, it would best to trade the them all (if they have value) before the trade deadline of 2026.

It seems likely to me that no trades will be possible next offseason (except a last minute flurry (during an possibly abbreviated and late spring training)!

All of above are candidates for extensions at market value, but then again all of the league's free agents are also available at market value.
+
I've made the same argument that you have regarding May's unlikelihood to exercise the option. Still, logic suggests that May might see it differently. Let's say he has a good year this year. He sees his market higher for '27 with the caveat that, if there is a strike, no one can predict how long it might last. If he hasn't already signed, he'll be FA wondering if there will be a '27 season...thus will anyone sign him? Perhaps that argument would prevail on him for the certainty of a contract once the bargaining is resolved. That would at least guarantee him the half million buyout fee.
It is a $20M option if I recall correctly.

That is pretty steep for a guy who has topped 56IP only once in his career so far and had a 4.88 FIP and 4.95 ERA in that season. His 6+ season career value so far is around $40M. Right now, he is 20 innings away from his 2nd highest career innings total!!! 8O

If he has a good season, I think he will go for a long term contract and the Cards may not like that injury risk and may covet the prospect return he could provide knowing they can use $20M to sign another pitcher in the offseason. However, if the Cards are in contention; they may not want to trade frontline 2026 players away. It will be interesting to see what they do...

I'm not sure the Cardinals 2026 pitching will last very far into this season though. May & Leahy seem likely to hit a wall. Maybe Dobbins, Mautz, Mathews, Hansen? can save the SP and with Gastelum can save the bullpen, too.
CorneliusWolfe
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by CorneliusWolfe »

I feel like his age already answers the question.

Keep him for 3-4 years to help us win, add as many suitable replacements around him during that window, then sell to a team during his last year or two, regardless if we are contending or not.

He’s too old to extend, but he’s not too old to help us now and he won’t be too old to trade to a contender down the road. Value now and later.
mattmitchl44
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by mattmitchl44 »

If O'Brien keeps rolling along this year, I certainly don't think the Cardinals have to trade him in July unless they get an offer which blows them away.

Some of their decision will also have to be made based on their self-scouting of O'Brien. RPs are notoriously inconsistent from year-to-year, so how confident are they that O'Brien will be effective over the next 1, 2, 3 years if they keep him?

If they believe O'Brien has really flipped a switch that is going to stay flipped, they can afford to be patient and hold onto him into 2027.
3dender
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by 3dender »

Oh wow, the obsequious software that literally drives people insane by agreeing with them too much thinks you're right about ROB... an answer it could very well have gotten by scraping your own words in the thread you just wrote long paragraphs about it.

What a convincing support for your argument... but at least you wasted enough water to service several households for a day! :roll:
Talkin' Baseball
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by Talkin' Baseball »

I've tossed this around some and come to this conclusion: keeping him would be a right answer- he is productive, cheap, and under team control, trading him for a good return is a right answer, the only wrong answer is trading him for a questionable return.

As far as trading him goes, the comp I am looking at is Jhoan Duran traded by the Twins to the Phillies at last years' deadline. At the deadline Duran was 27 years old with 2-1/2 years of team control left. When he was traded his stat line looked like this:
WAR 2.3 G49 IP49.1 Saves 16 W3 L1 K53 ERA 2.01 WHIP 1.176 K/9 9.7 K/BB 3.94

O Brien has played a little over 1/3 of the way to the trade deadline and has produced a line of:
WAR 0.6 G17 IP17 Saves 10 W3 L1 K19 ERA 2.12 WHIP 0.941 K/9 10.1 K/BB 19.00
O Brien is 31 with 4-1/2 years of team control left.

Duran was traded for 2 top 100 prospects. Would you trade O Brien for 2 top 100 prospects?
OldRed
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by OldRed »

In my opinion everything is dictated by where the team is in the standings at the trade deadline. Hopefully they are in contention for the NLC and that to me would change how they handle the roster.
sikeston bulldog2
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

OldRed wrote: 06 May 2026 07:19 am In my opinion everything is dictated by where the team is in the standings at the trade deadline. Hopefully they are in contention for the NLC and that to me would change how they handle the roster.
I don’t know. If everything is dictated by the standings at deadline. This winning shows the fan base and team that youth and free spirited talent can win.

They’ve shown their model has a chance. When the Walkers and the Herreras mature, you have your bats. No help needed.

Pitching. That’s where any help may come from.
3dender
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by 3dender »

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: 06 May 2026 07:30 am
OldRed wrote: 06 May 2026 07:19 am In my opinion everything is dictated by where the team is in the standings at the trade deadline. Hopefully they are in contention for the NLC and that to me would change how they handle the roster.
I don’t know. If everything is dictated by the standings at deadline. This winning shows the fan base and team that youth and free spirited talent can win.

They’ve shown their model has a chance. When the Walkers and the Herreras mature, you have your bats. No help needed.

Pitching. That’s where any help may come from.
You're placing outsized emphasis on less than 1/4 of the season.
lined2left
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by lined2left »

hugeCardfan wrote: 05 May 2026 22:16 pm I've had several discussions on the idea of trading him. I am against it based on his effectiveness and the fact we have 5 years of control. So I asked Chatgpt to weigh in on it. Follows:
Regarding the baseball St Louis Cardinals, I'm having an interesting chat regarding the closer, Riley O'Brien. Some suggest that he should be in the mix of those traded near the end of the season as he might bring a good trade. I disagree because I think a player who is 5 years under contract and pitching as well as he is in a vital role, that we should hold onto him and continue building a better bullpen. What do you think?
I'm curious what you would have said if I were inclined to trade O'Brien?
I lean closer to your view on this one.

For a club like the St. Louis Cardinals, the question is not simply “what can we get for a reliever?” — it is “how hard is it to replace cost-controlled late-inning stability?”

If Riley O'Brien is legitimately becoming a high-leverage bullpen arm and you control him for five more years, that has enormous value for a team trying to transition back into sustainable contention rather than conducting a full teardown.

A few reasons I think holding him makes sense:

Bullpens are finally becoming a strength again.
The Cardinals spent several years patching relief innings together. If O’Brien, Helsley, Romero, Kittredge-types, plus younger power arms start forming an identity, you do not casually subtract from that unless the return is overwhelming.
Cost-controlled relievers are disproportionately valuable now.
Teams pay huge money in free agency for bullpen certainty. If O’Brien gives you 70 quality innings at near-minimum salary, that is a competitive advantage.
The Cardinals are not built like a tanking organization.
This front office historically prefers “retool while remaining competitive.” Trading a controllable reliever only makes sense if:
they are clearly out of contention, AND
the return materially upgrades long-term upside.
Volatility cuts both ways.
The argument for trading relievers is fair: bullpen arms are volatile and injury-prone. A reliever’s value can evaporate quickly. So if another club views O’Brien as a late-inning monster and offers a premium prospect package, you at least listen.

But there is a difference between:

trading an expiring closer at peak value,
versus
trading a 5-years-controlled bullpen piece entering his prime.

Those are very different assets.

The more important question for St. Louis, in my opinion, is:
“Can this bullpen become a foundation while the young pitching matures?”

Because if:

Matthew Liberatore continues progressing,
Quinn Mathews arrives,
Graceffo becomes useful depth,
and the lineup stabilizes around players like JJ Wetherholt and others,

then a strong bullpen becomes a competitive accelerator.

That is exactly how many modern contenders bridge the gap from “decent” to “dangerous.”

I would only move O’Brien if:

the Cardinals are well out of the race by July/August,
AND another team offers a return disproportionate to a reliever,
AND the organization internally believes another power arm can replace him.

Otherwise, I would keep stacking bullpen talent rather than recycling it.

*******************************************************************************************************************************************************
I suspect some would say that I asked a leading question to chat or he might have answered differently. So, I asked:
I'm curious what you would have said if I were inclined to trade O'Brien?
I would have said the pro-trade argument is also very rational — especially in modern baseball.

The strongest case for trading Riley O'Brien would be this:

Relievers are among the most volatile assets in the sport.

A dominant bullpen arm today can become:

injured,
command-impaired,
overworked,
or simply average
very quickly.

Front offices know this, which is why smart organizations sometimes “sell high” on relievers before regression arrives.

The trade-O’Brien side would likely argue:

His value may never be higher.
If he is posting elite strikeout numbers with years of control, contenders will overpay because playoff teams desperately need bullpen help.
The Cardinals have bigger organizational needs.
St. Louis arguably needs:
top-end starting pitching,
middle-of-order impact bats,
and long-term athletic upside
more than one reliever.

Bullpens can be rebuilt faster than rotations.
Teams routinely discover effective relievers from:

failed starters,
waiver claims,
AAA power arms,
pitch-design projects.

Elite starters and middle-order hitters are much harder to acquire.

Timing matters.
If the Cardinals are hovering around .500 near the deadline, management could decide:
“By the time we’re truly ready to contend again, this bullpen configuration may already look different.”
Asset optimization.
Rays-style organizations often trade controllable relievers precisely because:
the market pays a premium,
reliever performance fluctuates,
and replacement cost is lower than for other positions.

And honestly, there is evidence for that philosophy across baseball.

The key difference comes down to organizational identity.

A club like the Tampa Bay Rays often maximizes asset turnover aggressively.

The St. Louis Cardinals historically value continuity, clubhouse structure, and maintaining a competitive floor. They are usually less inclined to constantly churn productive major-league pieces unless the return clearly improves long-term core talent.

So if you had argued for trading him, I would not have pushed back hard. I would probably frame it like this:

If O’Brien is merely “a good reliever,” trade consideration is reasonable.
If the organization internally believes he is evolving into a true shutdown late-inning anchor, then keeping him becomes more compelling.

That distinction matters a lot.

***********************************************

I feel like chat's discussion is pretty well balanced and think the last comment very relevant:
If O’Brien is merely “a good reliever,” trade consideration is reasonable.
If the organization internally believes he is evolving into a true shutdown late-inning anchor, then keeping him becomes more compelling.

That distinction matters a lot.
My sentiments exactly.
How much water and electricity did you use to get your answer?
jcgmoi
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by jcgmoi »

If O'Brien keeps his 19/1 K/W ratio with zero HRs allowed I might reconsider but otherwise, I say sure, trade him for the right pieces, he's a RP and they're everywhere.
sikeston bulldog2
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by sikeston bulldog2 »

jcgmoi wrote: 06 May 2026 07:38 am If O'Brien keeps his 19/1 K/W ratio with zero HRs allowed I might reconsider but otherwise, I say sure, trade him for the right pieces, he's a RP and they're everywhere.
If he posts those numbers you’d be hard pressed to match that in a trade. I know he’s a reliever, but occasionally you hit on a real closer. Been a while.
ramfandan
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by ramfandan »

I don’ understand why some on CT refer to 2027 as ‘strike year’.
Employees go on strike. The players have never indicated they may initiate a strike.
It is management (owners)that would prohibit the union ( players)
From playing ball. That is a ‘lockout’. When management prohibit thr employees to come and do their work.

The last situation thr owners ‘locked out’ the players by refusing to begin spring training. That deal was resolved without losing any regular season games.. only preseason ones.
dhsux
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Re: Riley O'Brien

Post by dhsux »

Talkin' Baseball wrote: 06 May 2026 07:05 am I've tossed this around some and come to this conclusion: keeping him would be a right answer- he is productive, cheap, and under team control, trading him for a good return is a right answer, the only wrong answer is trading him for a questionable return.

As far as trading him goes, the comp I am looking at is Jhoan Duran traded by the Twins to the Phillies at last years' deadline. At the deadline Duran was 27 years old with 2-1/2 years of team control left. When he was traded his stat line looked like this:
WAR 2.3 G49 IP49.1 Saves 16 W3 L1 K53 ERA 2.01 WHIP 1.176 K/9 9.7 K/BB 3.94

O Brien has played a little over 1/3 of the way to the trade deadline and has produced a line of:
WAR 0.6 G17 IP17 Saves 10 W3 L1 K19 ERA 2.12 WHIP 0.941 K/9 10.1 K/BB 19.00
O Brien is 31 with 4-1/2 years of team control left.

Duran was traded for 2 top 100 prospects. Would you trade O Brien for 2 top 100 prospects?
One factor not mentioned that has to be under consideration is that the Cardinals need butts in the seats.

Right now O'Brien is going to help them do that. I believe they will think twice before moving him.