What would it take?

[10CWilliams]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

[craviduce]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

[10CWilliams]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

I wouldn't make a deal unless it was someone I thought I could sign, but we seem to have a lot of redundant talent in the minors. If I thought this team could make a run, considering the bad feelings of the fanbase (some of which have eased due to the outstanding play.) I'd have to consider it.

[craviduce]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

I wouldn't make a deal unless it was someone I thought I could sign, but we seem to have a lot of redundant talent in the minors. If I thought this team could make a run, considering the bad feelings of the fanbase (some of which have eased due to the outstanding play.) I'd have to consider it.

we do have some redundant talent, I agree there...but we need that for moves this Winter or the following Winter. Plus we have to field teams at 5 other stateside levels, besides the Majors. Trades that help the team long term...not a knee jerk moment trades to pacify the here and now crowd. Stuff like that ruined our Organization and Farm. This team is a WC team at best over a 6 month season. I'd sell players rather than trying to make the WC and be done after 3 games. Stay the course on the rebuild, unless we have 10 game lead come July 31st

[Goldfan]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

I wouldn't make a deal unless it was someone I thought I could sign, but we seem to have a lot of redundant talent in the minors. If I thought this team could make a run, considering the bad feelings of the fanbase (some of which have eased due to the outstanding play.) I'd have to consider it.

we do have some redundant talent, I agree there...but we need that for moves this Winter or the following Winter. Plus we have to field teams at 5 other stateside levels, besides the Majors. Trades that help the team long term...not a knee jerk moment trades to pacify the here and now crowd. Stuff like that ruined our Organization and Farm. This team is a WC team at best over a 6 month season. I'd sell players rather than trying to make the WC and be done after 3 games. Stay the course on the rebuild, unless we have 10 game lead come July 31st

Let’s dream a little. The team stays hot, has the feel of a winner……needs a 30yr old Sandy. They trade one or two prospects….who knows if they amount to anything. Team wins the WS. Are you still in this Blinder laser focus can’t do anything else but keep every prospect mindset. You do realize that drafts come every year, trades can happen. This stubborn mode of “the only way to win is keeping every prospect and hopefully years from now we might win” is ridiculous. And thinking one trade will blow up the entire minor league system is ridiculous

[craviduce]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

I wouldn't make a deal unless it was someone I thought I could sign, but we seem to have a lot of redundant talent in the minors. If I thought this team could make a run, considering the bad feelings of the fanbase (some of which have eased due to the outstanding play.) I'd have to consider it.

we do have some redundant talent, I agree there...but we need that for moves this Winter or the following Winter. Plus we have to field teams at 5 other stateside levels, besides the Majors. Trades that help the team long term...not a knee jerk moment trades to pacify the here and now crowd. Stuff like that ruined our Organization and Farm. This team is a WC team at best over a 6 month season. I'd sell players rather than trying to make the WC and be done after 3 games. Stay the course on the rebuild, unless we have 10 game lead come July 31st

Let’s dream a little. The team stays hot, has the feel of a winner……needs a 30yr old Sandy. They trade one or two prospects….who knows if they amount to anything. Team wins the WS. Are you still in this Blinder laser focus can’t do anything else but keep every prospect mindset. You do realize that drafts come every year, trades can happen. This stubborn mode of “the only way to win is keeping every prospect and hopefully years from now we might win” is ridiculous. And thinking one trade will blow up the entire minor league system is ridiculous

we're not guaranteed to win the WS with a trade for Sandy. I'm not crippling the minor leagues we're still rebuilding for a Rental...not this year. Maybe 2027, definitely by 2028. But not year 1.
getting Sandy will take 2 of your top 10, 3 or 4 of your top 20...yes...it'll take 3 or 4 players. With Sandy, we're not guaranteed to win the WS.

[imetsatchelpaige]

There is Groundhog Day redundancy in this thread: guess who? He runs it out every day, ad infinitum, giving Shady a run for his meds.
Hint: it is metal

I strongly suggest reading all of the other threads, in detail, intelligently discussed, over the last week.

[JohnnyMO]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

I wouldn't make a deal unless it was someone I thought I could sign, but we seem to have a lot of redundant talent in the minors. If I thought this team could make a run, considering the bad feelings of the fanbase (some of which have eased due to the outstanding play.) I'd have to consider it.

we do have some redundant talent, I agree there...but we need that for moves this Winter or the following Winter. Plus we have to field teams at 5 other stateside levels, besides the Majors. Trades that help the team long term...not a knee jerk moment trades to pacify the here and now crowd. Stuff like that ruined our Organization and Farm. This team is a WC team at best over a 6 month season. I'd sell players rather than trying to make the WC and be done after 3 games. Stay the course on the rebuild, unless we have 10 game lead come July 31st

Let’s dream a little. The team stays hot, has the feel of a winner……needs a 30yr old Sandy. They trade one or two prospects….who knows if they amount to anything. Team wins the WS. Are you still in this Blinder laser focus can’t do anything else but keep every prospect mindset. You do realize that drafts come every year, trades can happen. This stubborn mode of “the only way to win is keeping every prospect and hopefully years from now we might win” is ridiculous. And thinking one trade will blow up the entire minor league system is ridiculous

Sandy Alcantara who had a 5.36 ERA last year and after 3 good starts to begin this year is back to looking like a 5+ ERA guy over his last 5 starts is going to be the one piece needed to get this team a ring?

Im fine combining buying and selling at the deadline if the team is still on pace to win almost 100 games, but this pitching can’t keep that pace. And, if they do, why would we add Alcantara?

[82birds]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

I wouldn't make a deal unless it was someone I thought I could sign, but we seem to have a lot of redundant talent in the minors. If I thought this team could make a run, considering the bad feelings of the fanbase (some of which have eased due to the outstanding play.) I'd have to consider it.

we do have some redundant talent, I agree there...but we need that for moves this Winter or the following Winter. Plus we have to field teams at 5 other stateside levels, besides the Majors. Trades that help the team long term...not a knee jerk moment trades to pacify the here and now crowd. Stuff like that ruined our Organization and Farm. This team is a WC team at best over a 6 month season. I'd sell players rather than trying to make the WC and be done after 3 games. Stay the course on the rebuild, unless we have 10 game lead come July 31st

Let’s dream a little. The team stays hot, has the feel of a winner……needs a 30yr old Sandy. They trade one or two prospects….who knows if they amount to anything. Team wins the WS. Are you still in this Blinder laser focus can’t do anything else but keep every prospect mindset. You do realize that drafts come every year, trades can happen. This stubborn mode of “the only way to win is keeping every prospect and hopefully years from now we might win” is ridiculous. And thinking one trade will blow up the entire minor league system is ridiculous

we're not guaranteed to win the WS with a trade for Sandy. I'm not crippling the minor leagues we're still rebuilding for a Rental...not this year. Maybe 2027, definitely by 2028. But not year 1.
getting Sandy will take 2 of your top 10, 3 or 4 of your top 20...yes...it'll take 3 or 4 players. With Sandy, we're not guaranteed to win the WS.

not. even. close.

[Cusecards]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

as for #2...there's no way we part with vital Minor League prospects in the middle of a rebuild for a Rental. If we add it'll be BP help, something the likes of Nootbaar will get you.

I wouldn't make a deal unless it was someone I thought I could sign, but we seem to have a lot of redundant talent in the minors. If I thought this team could make a run, considering the bad feelings of the fanbase (some of which have eased due to the outstanding play.) I'd have to consider it.

we do have some redundant talent, I agree there...but we need that for moves this Winter or the following Winter. Plus we have to field teams at 5 other stateside levels, besides the Majors. Trades that help the team long term...not a knee jerk moment trades to pacify the here and now crowd. Stuff like that ruined our Organization and Farm. This team is a WC team at best over a 6 month season. I'd sell players rather than trying to make the WC and be done after 3 games. Stay the course on the rebuild, unless we have 10 game lead come July 31st

Let’s dream a little. The team stays hot, has the feel of a winner……needs a 30yr old Sandy. They trade one or two prospects….who knows if they amount to anything. Team wins the WS. Are you still in this Blinder laser focus can’t do anything else but keep every prospect mindset. You do realize that drafts come every year, trades can happen. This stubborn mode of “the only way to win is keeping every prospect and hopefully years from now we might win” is ridiculous. And thinking one trade will blow up the entire minor league system is ridiculous

we're not guaranteed to win the WS with a trade for Sandy. I'm not crippling the minor leagues we're still rebuilding for a Rental...not this year. Maybe 2027, definitely by 2028. But not year 1.
getting Sandy will take 2 of your top 10, 3 or 4 of your top 20...yes...it'll take 3 or 4 players. With Sandy, we're not guaranteed to win the WS.

not. even. close.

Ok....I just stopped laughing long enough to type my response.
Is he saying that Sandy Alcantara makes us potential World Series Champions????
LMAO
Hey “fella” I’ve got a bridge and some swamp land you might be interested in???
Yikes! And BTW...if they swung a deal for him fine.
But it would depend on the cost in prospects and their ability to keep him under contract!

[C-Unit]

2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?

I'm actually really interested in this one myself. I haven't seen a list of what all the pitchers are that might be on the trade block. The Cardinals will have to make a decision if there are any prospects they can tab aside to part with in a big trade like this. You would have to be finding an opportunity on the trade market you think would be the best opportunity you could find over the next 3 years. I.e., you're getting a longterm pitcher who can be the ace of staff til Doyle, Cjintje, or Franklin take it from him.

3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

I think Baez should be up sometime this season but I see him more like a 2nd or 3rd week of August type of call-up. Bernal should be around the same time, just to get a little mlb time for both and you're right make the team younger as the season goes on. I'm not sure what they're gonna do with Crooks, maybe he should be the trade piece.

[CorneliusWolfe]

Big IF, but IF the team is in first place in this tough division with a reasonable, say 5 game-lead, then why wait? If our farm is as strong as advertised, and the guys we already have are winning, help them out. IF we find ourselves in that type of situation, then the rebuild will have apparently already succeeded.

If we’re five (or any) games back, stick to the original plan. Any truly great plan should be flexible and scalable.

Let actual success determine the length of time required for the rebuild, not predetermined thoughts of how long it was “supposed” to take.

[mattmitchl44]

2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?

Keller? As in Mitch Keller?

Is there a universe I'm not familiar with where Mitch Keller (career 4.44 ERA, 4.40 xERA, 3.96 FIP) is a "top of rotation SP"?

Even Alcantara hasn't been a TOR SP since 2022.

[rockondlouie]

First, I am well aware that it's a very long season & that we have a very young team which often wilts in the course of a 162 game season, but,
OTOH, we have some talent at AAA that could come up and provide a spark. I am convinced that we have a solid core going forward and not just a solid, but one that fits together well. Our top 3 pitchers just gave up, what 6 runs in 3 games against the Dodgers? This team, IMO, has a better shot than any team in the last 4-5 years. I completely understand that the wheels can still fall off of the cart, just mentally masturbating this morning.

I would do these things (assuming we're still in contention) and some of them right away:
1) Flip Nootbar for a Kitteredge type reliever, if possible. I see no reason to wait around on this. Noot gets a new start & we get a live arm.
2) Trade for a TOR starter at the break. I think Alcantara, Keller will be on the blocks and a few others. When is the last time we actually went for it?
3) Start rotating the "kids" in. I'm not anti-Pages, but I've heard that Crooks is a better defender & I think we need to be as strong up the middle as possible. If his bat helps, great. Get Jordan & Baez some ML ABs. I don't care about starting the clock.

Any thoughts?

-Noot will be dealt but the RP would have to have years of control, no way Bloom flips Noot for an aging Kittridge type who doesn't fit the L-T plan.........that would a waste of an asset (Noot).

That said, RP's can be had for lesser prospects (think Saggese, Prieto types) who have no future here.

-Bloom won't deal top level prospects for a FOTR starter, not happening.

-As for Pages, he's a better defensive catcher than Crooks but not as good as Bernal.

-Baez could get his shot after Noot is dealt but is more likely to be a September callup, not sure we see Blaze unless Gorman goes down w/an injury.