Define "toughness"

[a smell of green grass]

I'd like to address our top line. Can they be considered tough? How?

A: I believe they can be, but it's a work-in-progress. All three can skate and stay upright for the most part. All three have puck battle and board skills which in many matchups are a clear advantage. All will go to tough areas, though none are the "big body in front" type. Holloway will stick his nose in a scrum. Snuggerud uses his body and positioning routinely.

All of them have durability questions, but none of them are overly self-protective (Holloway is a missile pushing the envelope). None of them are big body movers, disturbers, or punishers though none of them shy away from contact.

Do they need protection? Only in the extreme, otherwise they're happy to go on the PP.

I've been thinking this for a while and feel it will ultimately be the undoing of the line. They played great with the pressure off and no real big game challenges to their grit and manhood. And it's pretty much been the hallmark of this iteration of the team. We'll find out if they're post-season tough soon enough I suppose.

Above all I hope they add size and toughness in the draft.

I agree. That line played in clean up time with zero pressure. Let’s see how they play in Sept-Dec when teams are working hard to bank points for playoff berths. And while I agree with the assessment of each player as Dawg laid out, none of them, other than maybe Holloway drops the gloves to defend themselves if needed. We’ll see if any of them get intimidated.

The aforementioned is precisely the reason why the #2 center is so critical to shore up that line and provide secondary scoring. Teams will be focusing on Thomas / Snuggarud / Holloway.

I guess Dvorsky is just gum on the bottom of the skate now.

[Bubble4427]

“The Captain that Should’ve Been”

He shouldn't have ever been an "alternate" much less THE captain.
How many teams has that cornerstone player been on since 2020?
4?
5?
I don't miss him at all.

[Blues Dave]

I believe most of you guys have covered it pretty well. (there is no definate), I would just add that a player who does all the right things that you guys have mentioned, but the other players in the league still respect you.

[Blues Dave]

Excellant danno.

[11WSChamps]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

[skilles]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

I also miss the 90s

[11WSChamps]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

I also miss the 90s

You miss a lot.

[bud white]

I'd like to address our top line. Can they be considered tough? How?

A: I believe they can be, but it's a work-in-progress. All three can skate and stay upright for the most part. All three have puck battle and board skills which in many matchups are a clear advantage. All will go to tough areas, though none are the "big body in front" type. Holloway will stick his nose in a scrum. Snuggerud uses his body and positioning routinely.

All of them have durability questions, but none of them are overly self-protective (Holloway is a missile pushing the envelope). None of them are big body movers, disturbers, or punishers though none of them shy away from contact.

Do they need protection? Only in the extreme, otherwise they're happy to go on the PP.

I've been thinking this for a while and feel it will ultimately be the undoing of the line. They played great with the pressure off and no real big game challenges to their grit and manhood. And it's pretty much been the hallmark of this iteration of the team. We'll find out if they're post-season tough soon enough I suppose.

Above all I hope they add size and toughness in the draft.

I agree. That line played in clean up time with zero pressure. Let’s see how they play in Sept-Dec when teams are working hard to bank points for playoff berths. And while I agree with the assessment of each player as Dawg laid out, none of them, other than maybe Holloway drops the gloves to defend themselves if needed. We’ll see if any of them get intimidated.

The aforementioned is precisely the reason why the #2 center is so critical to shore up that line and provide secondary scoring. Teams will be focusing on Thomas / Snuggarud / Holloway.

I guess Dvorsky is just gum on the bottom of the skate now.

As stated here many times before ... while obviously gifted, and while he proved he belongs in the N, he was gassed after the Olympics and was invisible. He will be hitting the gym in the offseason of course, but right now, he is NOT a #2 center in the N.


Secondly, you can never have too much center depth in this league.

[Rollin' on the River]

“The Captain that Should’ve Been”

He shouldn't have ever been an "alternate" much less THE captain.
How many teams has that cornerstone player been on since 2020?
4?
5?
I don't miss him at all.

I do.

Guy could score from anywhere. Best shooter this team has had since Hull. It took years to replace him with Snuggerud, and they actually gave Snuggy decent linemates. Tarasenko scored 40 with basically nobody


I’ll never forget that WJC when he came back from the intentional knee injury from Canada and slid an unbelievable pass to Kuznetsov to send the Russians home with gold.

It’s a shame the 4th best medical school in the country botched his shoulder injury twice.

[TAFKAP]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

You're absolutely right for the 90's. Ask Sidney Crosby if it's an illusion, because Ryan Reaves as a solution to the "Tom Wilson Problem" didn't last long.

[11WSChamps]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

You're absolutely right for the 90's. Ask Sidney Crosby if it's an illusion, because Ryan Reaves as a solution to the "Tom Wilson Problem" didn't last long.

Ask Ovechkin if its an illusion.

[skilles]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

I also miss the 90s

You miss a lot.

Says the guy who still doesn't understand they don't allow you to fight anymore unless the other guy also wants to fight.

Its almost like you are mad at me because they don't allow it any more.

[11WSChamps]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

I also miss the 90s

You miss a lot.

Says the guy who still doesn't understand they don't allow you to fight anymore unless the other guy also wants to fight.

Its almost like you are mad at me because they don't allow it any more.

Says the guy who says I ever said that when I didn't.

Where did I say anyone had to fight anybody?

There's always been a what if factor that doesnt have to result in dropping gloves.

[Tabasco Flowers]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

That used to be the case, but not in today's NHL.

[TAFKAP]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Ask Brett Hull if it was an illusion.

You're absolutely right for the 90's. Ask Sidney Crosby if it's an illusion, because Ryan Reaves as a solution to the "Tom Wilson Problem" didn't last long.

Ask Ovechkin if its an illusion.

I can't recall Ovi ever being targeted during one of Tom Wilson's many "League Mandated Unpaid Vacations". The Pens got Reaves specifically to keep Wilson away from Crosby. It didn't last long because most tough guys are a liability on the ice. Tom Wilson is 1 of 1. The only thing that will stop him is CTE.

[Harry York 37]

Truly, this word is tossed around quite a bit, along with "protection."

Curious what you all mean by those terms.

A major part of Toughness involves not quitting. Examples of things that can make a player quit- a bad bounce, an error, a decision that backfired and gave the opposition momentum…and of course any injury that still allows you to see the play, carry a stick, and skate- but not at your usual level of competence and even your usual level of safety. Those are all times when Toughness becomes incredibly important. Mental Toughness is as difficult- often more difficult- than physical Toughness.

There is also a special kind of Toughness where one must admit a mistake. Not being Tough enough to admit you were wrong is one of the weakest things to behold. There are braggart and boastful bullies, both physical and here in the internet- boastful and braggart tyrants who never find the guts to come clean and face facts.
Those are the worst kinds of weaklings, on a team, or running a nation.

A man who cannot admit a mistake… can never learn from it.

The real Tough Bastards never quit the lessson.