ramfandan wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:53 am
Though some of the young guys started when Mo was here, the fact remains the development and their current play goes to Bloom not Mo.
Just one example" Bloom unloads Contreras and Arenado ( Mo sure didn't ). By doing so , Bloom cleared the decks on two players who didn't have much speed on the basepaths. Result" Oli was forced to play station to station baseball with them as those two especially clogged the bases for taking extra bases by the younger guys etc.
Now once they were out of here. Look at what Oli was able to do with all younger guys. Walker can go from first to third on hits. He can steal a base easier too .
That is just one example .
They were given the opportunity by Bloom's trades. Bloom has nothing to do with the development that happens in the minors, it is opportunity.
Bloom has a lot to do with the development that happens in the minors for Bloom , Cerfolio , Pierpont, etc. first decide where a minor leaguer is placed. Ex. This year they decided to put Doyle at Double A rather than Peoria High A as I read that they felt the hitters would be more challenging for Doyle and he would experience some failure facing those guys. They know how competitive so felt for his development it best he face competition at a higher level. As with Doyle, Bloom also oversees and thru meetings with Pierpont decide what secondary pitches and the workload that Doyle would have to develop him further . To say that Bloom has nothing to do with development that happens in the minors is inaccurate. Doyle was one example. How Baez is utilized, Rodgrigues etc. is monitored closely by Bloom and directions are given to the minors what Bloom, Cerfolio, etc want done with them.
That is true, but has nothing to do with the current Cardinal roster.
Really, for the couple years Bloom has been here he has had his top people develop instruction for Victor Scott II, Church , JJ as examples of three players that are on this current roster. I didn't address the pitchers
You missed my point completely. Those were still all players drafted and signed by Mo. We have to see what Bloom drafts and signs and how many become MLB players.
Players drafted have not necessarily been a problem. Some on here are rightly pointing out that development was lacking under Mo.
I would add that roster construction and transaction mistakes were also Mo problems. Arozarena, Alcantara, etc? Ozuna, Fowler? Not building around Goldschmidt and Arenado? Extending Matt Carpenter and Mikolas?!!
Melville wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:20 am
"This is Mo's team developed from the minors."
Disagree.
Walker turned to corner this year by ignoring what Super Slo Mo and the coaching staff ordered him to do the last couple of years.
Gorman has become the most productive 3B in MLB because Bloom finally moved N/A out of the way.
Burleson, for the first time in his career, was assured a starting role and position (last season he was the 26th man to make the roster).
McGreevy, the ace of the staff, is no longer buried behind Mikolas.
Mootbaar - Mo's love affair for the previous 4 seasons - has not taken a single 2026 PA, which automatically made the team better.
Wetherholt has seized the leadoff role - which was a long-time black hole of rotating odd fitting pieces under Super Slo Mo.
Those are the factors which have turned things around.
Mo did not develop this team.
For many years, he undermined it.
OldRed wrote: ↑05 May 2026 07:53 am
It was pointed out on a radio program yesterday that basically this is Mo's team developed from the minors. I thought it was an interesting thought.
The point was ridiculous. Moe floundered for years because he was incompetent and extremely lazy. He may have acquired a number of these players but he didn’t have the slightest idea what to do with them. He was living in the 1980s. Bloom has run circles around that dope.
OldRed wrote: ↑05 May 2026 07:53 am
It was pointed out on a radio program yesterday that basically this is Mo's team developed from the minors. I thought it was an interesting thought.
The point was ridiculous. Moe floundered for years because he was incompetent and extremely lazy. He may have acquired a number of these players but he didn’t have the slightest idea what to do with them. He was living in the 1980s. Bloom has run circles around that dope.
OldRed wrote: ↑05 May 2026 07:53 am
It was pointed out on a radio program yesterday that basically this is Mo's team developed from the minors. I thought it was an interesting thought.
The point was ridiculous. Moe floundered for years because he was incompetent and extremely lazy. He may have acquired a number of these players but he didn’t have the slightest idea what to do with them. He was living in the 1980s. Bloom has run circles around that dope.
Dope? LOL. That’s childish.
In no way was I defending Mo and yes, it was time for a change. But, when every starting player in the lineup was drafted by Mo and brought thru the organization and is now playing is a tribute that Mo must have been doing right. I can't think of another Major League team that can say that.
Melville wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:20 am
"This is Mo's team developed from the minors."
Disagree.
Walker turned to corner this year by ignoring what Super Slo Mo and the coaching staff ordered him to do the last couple of years. Gorman has become the most productive 3B in MLB because Bloom finally moved N/A out of the way.
Burleson, for the first time in his career, was assured a starting role and position (last season he was the 26th man to make the roster).
McGreevy, the ace of the staff, is no longer buried behind Mikolas.
Mootbaar - Mo's love affair for the previous 4 seasons - has not taken a single 2026 PA, which automatically made the team better.
Wetherholt has seized the leadoff role - which was a long-time black hole of rotating odd fitting pieces under Super Slo Mo.
Those are the factors which have turned things around.
Mo did not develop this team.
For many years, he undermined it.
By what measure? Certainly isn’t fWAR (16th), OPS (15th), or batting average (16th)/OBP (19th)/SLG (13th). And those are out of 23 qualified players. He’s 19th in runs scored, 3rd in RBI, 20th in doubles, T-6th in HRs. 4th highest strikeout total.
Melville wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:20 am
"This is Mo's team developed from the minors."
Disagree.
Walker turned to corner this year by ignoring what Super Slo Mo and the coaching staff ordered him to do the last couple of years.
Gorman has become the most productive 3B in MLB because Bloom finally moved N/A out of the way.
Burleson, for the first time in his career, was assured a starting role and position (last season he was the 26th man to make the roster).
McGreevy, the ace of the staff, is no longer buried behind Mikolas.
Mootbaar - Mo's love affair for the previous 4 seasons - has not taken a single 2026 PA, which automatically made the team better.
Wetherholt has seized the leadoff role - which was a long-time black hole of rotating odd fitting pieces under Super Slo Mo.
Those are the factors which have turned things around.
Mo did not develop this team.
For many years, he undermined it.
y
Then who drafted them? Just for once admit you are totally wrong.
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:53 am
Though some of the young guys started when Mo was here, the fact remains the development and their current play goes to Bloom not Mo.
Just one example" Bloom unloads Contreras and Arenado ( Mo sure didn't ). By doing so , Bloom cleared the decks on two players who didn't have much speed on the basepaths. Result" Oli was forced to play station to station baseball with them as those two especially clogged the bases for taking extra bases by the younger guys etc.
Now once they were out of here. Look at what Oli was able to do with all younger guys. Walker can go from first to third on hits. He can steal a base easier too .
That is just one example .
They were given the opportunity by Bloom's trades. Bloom has nothing to do with the development that happens in the minors, it is opportunity.
Bloom has a lot to do with the development that happens in the minors for Bloom , Cerfolio , Pierpont, etc. first decide where a minor leaguer is placed. Ex. This year they decided to put Doyle at Double A rather than Peoria High A as I read that they felt the hitters would be more challenging for Doyle and he would experience some failure facing those guys. They know how competitive so felt for his development it best he face competition at a higher level. As with Doyle, Bloom also oversees and thru meetings with Pierpont decide what secondary pitches and the workload that Doyle would have to develop him further . To say that Bloom has nothing to do with development that happens in the minors is inaccurate. Doyle was one example. How Baez is utilized, Rodgrigues etc. is monitored closely by Bloom and directions are given to the minors what Bloom, Cerfolio, etc want done with them.
That is true, but has nothing to do with the current Cardinal roster.
So really what is your point here Red?
Do you think Mozeliak deserves credit for this roster? If he was still here:
1. Walker probably sent down after ST
2. Arenado still manning 3rd for this year and next.
3. Contreras playing first, which would mean Burleson would be a part-time player and in the outfield.
4. Donovan still here so Church would most likely be in AAA.
5. Gorman still languishing with no real direction.
The Cardinals have been down that road and the results stunk.
And Mozeliak would have changed very little of it since everybody knows (or should) that the one thing John Mozeliak was great at is procrastination.
Melville wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:20 am
"This is Mo's team developed from the minors."
Disagree.
Walker turned to corner this year by ignoring what Super Slo Mo and the coaching staff ordered him to do the last couple of years. Gorman has become the most productive 3B in MLB because Bloom finally moved N/A out of the way.
Burleson, for the first time in his career, was assured a starting role and position (last season he was the 26th man to make the roster).
McGreevy, the ace of the staff, is no longer buried behind Mikolas.
Mootbaar - Mo's love affair for the previous 4 seasons - has not taken a single 2026 PA, which automatically made the team better.
Wetherholt has seized the leadoff role - which was a long-time black hole of rotating odd fitting pieces under Super Slo Mo.
Those are the factors which have turned things around.
Mo did not develop this team.
For many years, he undermined it.
By what measure? Certainly isn’t fWAR (16th), OPS (15th), or batting average (16th)/OBP (19th)/SLG (13th). And those are out of 23 qualified players. He’s 19th in runs scored, 3rd in RBI, 20th in doubles, T-6th in HRs. 4th highest strikeout total.
It is disingenuous to take RBI's as the sole measurement of production and not include
opportunities that he had and opportunities where he failed to bring in the base runner.
Gorman has shown to be competent on defense to this point. He is below his very own standards
though in the box. His salvation thus far is his numbers over all with runners on base have been
ok,
He has a .264/.311/.396/.708 so the position Mel takes here suggests that if Gorman was producing
a SLG closer to his profile of .450+ instead of that .396 that his 21 RBI would not be far greater. As it is
Gorman has just 4 more RBI than the man he replaced while playing in 3 more games than NA.
Gorman does have an outstanding .800 SLG and a 1.086 OPS with a man on 3B. That's just 1 hit
though in 5 ab's and 7 PA's for a .200 BA. The 1 hit a HR. 3 RBI's out of his opportunities.
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:53 am
Though some of the young guys started when Mo was here, the fact remains the development and their current play goes to Bloom not Mo.
Just one example" Bloom unloads Contreras and Arenado ( Mo sure didn't ). By doing so , Bloom cleared the decks on two players who didn't have much speed on the basepaths. Result" Oli was forced to play station to station baseball with them as those two especially clogged the bases for taking extra bases by the younger guys etc.
Now once they were out of here. Look at what Oli was able to do with all younger guys. Walker can go from first to third on hits. He can steal a base easier too .
That is just one example .
They were given the opportunity by Bloom's trades. Bloom has nothing to do with the development that happens in the minors, it is opportunity.
Bloom has a lot to do with the development that happens in the minors for Bloom , Cerfolio , Pierpont, etc. first decide where a minor leaguer is placed. Ex. This year they decided to put Doyle at Double A rather than Peoria High A as I read that they felt the hitters would be more challenging for Doyle and he would experience some failure facing those guys. They know how competitive so felt for his development it best he face competition at a higher level. As with Doyle, Bloom also oversees and thru meetings with Pierpont decide what secondary pitches and the workload that Doyle would have to develop him further . To say that Bloom has nothing to do with development that happens in the minors is inaccurate. Doyle was one example. How Baez is utilized, Rodgrigues etc. is monitored closely by Bloom and directions are given to the minors what Bloom, Cerfolio, etc want done with them.
That is true, but has nothing to do with the current Cardinal roster.
So really what is your point here Red?
Do you think Mozeliak deserves credit for this roster? If he was still here:
1. Walker probably sent down after ST
2. Arenado still manning 3rd for this year and next.
3. Contreras playing first, which would mean Burleson would be a part-time player and in the outfield.
4. Donovan still here so Church would most likely be in AAA.
5. Gorman still languishing with no real direction.
The Cardinals have been down that road and the results stunk.
And Mozeliak would have changed very little of it since everybody knows (or should) that the one thing John Mozeliak was great at is procrastination.
Melville wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:20 am
"This is Mo's team developed from the minors."
Disagree.
Walker turned to corner this year by ignoring what Super Slo Mo and the coaching staff ordered him to do the last couple of years.
Gorman has become the most productive 3B in MLB because Bloom finally moved N/A out of the way.
Burleson, for the first time in his career, was assured a starting role and position (last season he was the 26th man to make the roster).
McGreevy, the ace of the staff, is no longer buried behind Mikolas.
Mootbaar - Mo's love affair for the previous 4 seasons - has not taken a single 2026 PA, which automatically made the team better.
Wetherholt has seized the leadoff role - which was a long-time black hole of rotating odd fitting pieces under Super Slo Mo.
Those are the factors which have turned things around.
Mo did not develop this team.
For many years, he undermined it.
I can get behind most of this. But, I don't have a problem with Mo other than the fact he overstayed his welcome. He was instrumental in signing Pujols and, for that, I'll never hate the guy.
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 May 2026 08:53 am
Though some of the young guys started when Mo was here, the fact remains the development and their current play goes to Bloom not Mo.
Just one example" Bloom unloads Contreras and Arenado ( Mo sure didn't ). By doing so , Bloom cleared the decks on two players who didn't have much speed on the basepaths. Result" Oli was forced to play station to station baseball with them as those two especially clogged the bases for taking extra bases by the younger guys etc.
Now once they were out of here. Look at what Oli was able to do with all younger guys. Walker can go from first to third on hits. He can steal a base easier too .
That is just one example .
They were given the opportunity by Bloom's trades. Bloom has nothing to do with the development that happens in the minors, it is opportunity.
Bloom has a lot to do with the development that happens in the minors for Bloom , Cerfolio , Pierpont, etc. first decide where a minor leaguer is placed. Ex. This year they decided to put Doyle at Double A rather than Peoria High A as I read that they felt the hitters would be more challenging for Doyle and he would experience some failure facing those guys. They know how competitive so felt for his development it best he face competition at a higher level. As with Doyle, Bloom also oversees and thru meetings with Pierpont decide what secondary pitches and the workload that Doyle would have to develop him further . To say that Bloom has nothing to do with development that happens in the minors is inaccurate. Doyle was one example. How Baez is utilized, Rodgrigues etc. is monitored closely by Bloom and directions are given to the minors what Bloom, Cerfolio, etc want done with them.
That is true, but has nothing to do with the current Cardinal roster.
So really what is your point here Red?
Do you think Mozeliak deserves credit for this roster? If he was still here:
1. Walker probably sent down after ST
2. Arenado still manning 3rd for this year and next.
3. Contreras playing first, which would mean Burleson would be a part-time player and in the outfield.
4. Donovan still here so Church would most likely be in AAA.
5. Gorman still languishing with no real direction.
The Cardinals have been down that road and the results stunk.
And Mozeliak would have changed very little of it since everybody knows (or should) that the one thing John Mozeliak was great at is procrastination.
5. Gorman is still languishing.
That’s true, but by the end of this year Bloom will make a decision on Gorman’s future. If Mozeliak was still in charge he’d say we still “need to see what we have”.
OldRed wrote: ↑05 May 2026 07:53 am
It was pointed out on a radio program yesterday that basically this is Mo's team developed from the minors. I thought it was an interesting thought.
The drafting/signing of most players was under MO's watch, no doubt. The 'development' has Bloom's fingerprints all over it.
Dont forget that Bloom was an advisor to Mo for two years and was very influential.
