Define "toughness"

[skilles]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Olivier puts a scare into the majority of the league. There are a few players that have reps for being able to maintain order.
Listen to Chases podcast…..if the Red Wings were hitting Hull or taking liberties….Twist would skate over to their bench and say”if it doesn’t stop now, I’ll break Yzerman’s leg and kick the chit out of anyone who tries to stop me.

That part of the game is dying off…but there are a few players in the league that still carry that weight of intimidation.

That is not just a different mindset but a different rule set

[zamadoo]

it means quit being a (buzz)

FFS

mental toughness
physical prowess
courage
fortitude
bravery in the face of danger
rising above the odds
pushing through adversity
laying it on the line
doing whatever it takes
bringing others up
being principled
taking the challenge head on
doing the right thing
accepting discomfort in pursuit
and so on...

all things lacking in the modern world

[Rollin' on the River]

it means quit being a (A female canine animal, especially a dog)

FFS

mental toughness
physical prowess
courage
fortitude
bravery in the face of danger
rising above the odds
pushing through adversity
laying it on the line
doing whatever it takes
bringing others up
being principled
taking the challenge head on
doing the right thing
accepting discomfort in pursuit
and so on...

all things lacking in the modern world

100%

The world is butter soft. Where that fault lies, is up for debate. But people have gotten too comfortable over the last 20 years.

[danno]

[danno]

"I can bully"

[Old_Goat]

I agree with what Rollin posted below, but if I may I would like to refine & expand a bit...

Mental is 90% of it. He describes it very well. It is a no surrender, no fear of pain, intense belief in yourself and an absolute love, trust and belief in your teammates. And although you may lose this battle (puck, penalty kill, even the the game), your opponent will dread facing you again...and everything else that he said.

Rollin' on the River » 04 May 2026 18:54 pm

For me “toughness” is mental and physical.

Physical, is obviously playing a physical hitting game within the confines of the rules.

Mentally- it’s about being able to find another gear when you’re tired or hurt or sick. It’s a no-excuses mindset where you lay it all on the line, every time you touch the ice. It’s about digging deep when your team is down and making something happen. Not quitting, playing to the whistle. Hating to lose.

[Old_Goat]

Toughness: the texture of the steaks my ex used to cook - Toughness.

This too

[Bubble4427]

I think everyone knows what toughness is and agree it is important, I think the illusion is that one player being tough somehow protects another player.

Olivier puts a scare into the majority of the league. There are a few players that have reps for being able to maintain order.
Listen to Chases podcast…..if the Red Wings were hitting Hull or taking liberties….Twist would skate over to their bench and say”if it doesn’t stop now, I’ll break Yzerman’s leg and kick the chit out of anyone who tries to stop me.

That part of the game is dying off…but there are a few players in the league that still carry that weight of intimidation.

That is not just a different mindset but a different rule set

They were playing by the same same set of rules...
now the "unwritten rules" are different.

I really do feel like their are guys that still intimidate today...it's just not as big a part of the game (very small actually)

But this team needs toughness. And the toughness that Pierre described (along with others). Go to the tough areas, play the body...and stick up for teammates.

[blues2112]

Great responses, and I'd add that I once heard a coach define "toughness" as not being how hard you are knocked down, but how quickly you get back up.

[Harry S Deals]

Toughness in hockey for me is the ability to play hard for 82 guys. Different guys on a team bring different attributes. Our favorite whipping boy, Kyrouzy can bring toughness by 105% emptying his tank on every single shift, using his elite skating ability to smother opposing players on the forecheck and forcing turnovers. While guys like Neighbours/Holloway etc can exhibit toughness by winning board battles consistently, finishing checks, taking guys off their skates. The team in general can show toughness by always sticking to the plan, always playing hard regardless of the skaters traits, never giving up, always locked in.

[callitwhatyouwant]

Toughness in hockey for me is the ability to play hard for 82 guys. Different guys on a team bring different attributes. Our favorite whipping boy, Kyrouzy can bring toughness by 105% emptying his tank on every single shift, using his elite skating ability to smother opposing players on the forecheck and forcing turnovers. While guys like Neighbours/Holloway etc can exhibit toughness by winning board battles consistently, finishing checks, taking guys off their skates. The team in general can show toughness by always sticking to the plan, always playing hard regardless of the skaters traits, never giving up, always locked in.

expanding on what you are saying, toughness isn't about "feels". Not to say you don't have genuine feelings. Just that your are able to bypass what those feelings are to deliver for your teammates at whatever your strengths are. The greatest ability is availability. The next best ability in my opinion is consistency. Knowing that the effort is there every day is part of toughness. And then on top of that, the ability to rise to the occasion. This is an under looked part of toughness. It doesn't mean slashing the opponent in the back after getting hit by their team (thinking of bolduc last year). It means, that when the pressure is at it's most, whatever you are asked of your team, your contribution is on par with what you normally give, or it elevates. The guys that can do that are tough. The guys that can be pushed out of that generally live in a bit of comfortability that they rely on certain things to be able to perform.

Toughness doesn't mean whether or not you can take a hit or if you can dish one. Because I can give examples of you getting absolutely cheap shotted and ending your night, or you hitting your opponent after you are already down 5-1. It's that IT factor that your teammates know that when they walk out there, you are there for them. There is no hoping, or questioning. It's a given.

[TruBlueFan_1970]

I'd like to address our top line. Can they be considered tough? How?

A: I believe they can be, but it's a work-in-progress. All three can skate and stay upright for the most part. All three have puck battle and board skills which in many matchups are a clear advantage. All will go to tough areas, though none are the "big body in front" type. Holloway will stick his nose in a scrum. Snuggerud uses his body and positioning routinely.

All of them have durability questions, but none of them are overly self-protective (Holloway is a missile pushing the envelope). None of them are big body movers, disturbers, or punishers though none of them shy away from contact.

Do they need protection? Only in the extreme, otherwise they're happy to go on the PP.

I've been thinking this for a while and feel it will ultimately be the undoing of the line. They played great with the pressure off and no real big game challenges to their grit and manhood. And it's pretty much been the hallmark of this iteration of the team. We'll find out if they're post-season tough soon enough I suppose.

Above all I hope they add size and toughness in the draft.

I agree. That line played in clean up time with zero pressure. Let’s see how they play in Sept-Dec when teams are working hard to bank points for playoff berths. And while I agree with the assessment of each player as Dawg laid out, none of them, other than maybe Holloway drops the gloves to defend themselves if needed. We’ll see if any of them get intimidated.

[callitwhatyouwant]

I'd like to address our top line. Can they be considered tough? How?

A: I believe they can be, but it's a work-in-progress. All three can skate and stay upright for the most part. All three have puck battle and board skills which in many matchups are a clear advantage. All will go to tough areas, though none are the "big body in front" type. Holloway will stick his nose in a scrum. Snuggerud uses his body and positioning routinely.

All of them have durability questions, but none of them are overly self-protective (Holloway is a missile pushing the envelope). None of them are big body movers, disturbers, or punishers though none of them shy away from contact.

Do they need protection? Only in the extreme, otherwise they're happy to go on the PP.

I've been thinking this for a while and feel it will ultimately be the undoing of the line. They played great with the pressure off and no real big game challenges to their grit and manhood. And it's pretty much been the hallmark of this iteration of the team. We'll find out if they're post-season tough soon enough I suppose.

Above all I hope they add size and toughness in the draft.

I agree. That line played in clean up time with zero pressure. Let’s see how they play in Sept-Dec when teams are working hard to bank points for playoff berths. And while I agree with the assessment of each player as Dawg laid out, none of them, other than maybe Holloway drops the gloves to defend themselves if needed. We’ll see if any of them get intimidated.

I know "clean up time" was what Army and Monty said at the presser. But I think it's because they are trying to keep the hunger there for the players. It's the right messaging to have. They had to get a contract done with Hollywood. BUT reality was they beat multiple teams that were jockeying for playoff births/ playoff position/ etc etc.. They just lost the 2 biggest ones that impacted them once they had gotten they themselves into striking distance.

I agree with some of the sentiment about October hockey and how important it is. But the best teams generally don't come out of the gate firing on all cylinders (Avs might be excluded from this as they were a wagon from the start). The best teams generally are solid in all phases the whole year. They have a solid start, solid middle, and ramp up late. October hockey is important to a different degree. It's the one time where all teams theoretically have a shot. But the teams are playing typically gross hockey as they are trying to figure out their footing. It's disingenuous to say that October hockey mans more than March/April as that is just situational at best. Again, the Blues beat a couple teams that were trying for playoffs and failed. That game meant more to those teams than some throwaway game around Halloween.

[Rollin' on the River]

“The Captain that Should’ve Been”

[bud white]

I'd like to address our top line. Can they be considered tough? How?

A: I believe they can be, but it's a work-in-progress. All three can skate and stay upright for the most part. All three have puck battle and board skills which in many matchups are a clear advantage. All will go to tough areas, though none are the "big body in front" type. Holloway will stick his nose in a scrum. Snuggerud uses his body and positioning routinely.

All of them have durability questions, but none of them are overly self-protective (Holloway is a missile pushing the envelope). None of them are big body movers, disturbers, or punishers though none of them shy away from contact.

Do they need protection? Only in the extreme, otherwise they're happy to go on the PP.

I've been thinking this for a while and feel it will ultimately be the undoing of the line. They played great with the pressure off and no real big game challenges to their grit and manhood. And it's pretty much been the hallmark of this iteration of the team. We'll find out if they're post-season tough soon enough I suppose.

Above all I hope they add size and toughness in the draft.

I agree. That line played in clean up time with zero pressure. Let’s see how they play in Sept-Dec when teams are working hard to bank points for playoff berths. And while I agree with the assessment of each player as Dawg laid out, none of them, other than maybe Holloway drops the gloves to defend themselves if needed. We’ll see if any of them get intimidated.

The aforementioned is precisely the reason why the #2 center is so critical to shore up that line and provide secondary scoring. Teams will be focusing on Thomas / Snuggarud / Holloway.

[bud white]

Kyrou = not toughness.
Scott Stevens = Toughness

Scott Stevens would be suspended more than Raffi Torres in the modern game. He was a beast in his day, but the type of physicality designed to end superstar careers, doesn't exist in today's game. Tom Wilson would be the closest, and, he's a piece of [shirt].

Stevens would have adjusted to what the modern game allows and permits.

But think about the benefit he had with that D corps in Jersey. He could make those hits knowing he could draw a penalty in the short term - but he had Daneyko, Niedermeyer - and some guy named Brodeur - to kill the penalty. But in a playoff series, the "message" he sends from the hit goes a long way.