Why NOT use the NHL draft PICKS to Trade for a 2C?

[aslord]

My dream offseason.

Holloway Thomas Snuggerud
McKenna Matthews Tkachuk
Neighbours Dvorsky Carbonneau
Toropchenko Finley Walker

Broberg Mailloux
Lindstein Parayko
Fowler Jiricek

Hofer
Harenstam

Trade Buch, Kyrou, Binnington, Suter, Stenberg, Det 1, Col 1, and any other prospects/picks worth anything for Tkachuk/Matthews.
Win the lottery, draft McKenna. Resign Matthews and Tkachuk long term.
Profit

Now, how to get Ontario teams to agree to that is a problem. But not mine.

[TBone]

Using our picks to acquire a young C prospect(Desnoyers, Hage, Hagens,etc) with upside makes sense to me as they will be hitting their prime when this team is hopefully opening the window instead of landing someone like Hischier who will be closer to exiting his prime years.

With six picks in the first three rounds they could shotgun center and still end up with a couple of high end RHD, a power forward and 3 center potential forwards if they really want it. There are a bunch of all of the above this year.

[zoiks]

With six picks in the first three rounds they could shotgun center and still end up with a couple of high end RHD, a power forward and 3 center potential forwards if they really want it. There are a bunch of all of the above this year.

The odds of getting an impactful player with a draft pick beyond round 2 is nearly 0. The Blues aren’t going to find a #2 center with the 3rd round draft picks, unless they have ridiculously good luck.

[zoiks]

Is that center in this draft? We do have to look at the actual list of draft eligibles.

Also, I’m sorry, but those draft pick value equations are completely arbitrary. If they were accurate, you’d see those types of trades all the time.

The center you’re looking for is Malhotra. And if he does drop, the price for teams to move up to get him would be prettt high is my guess

I have no idea if a #2 center is in this draft. Unlike many here, I don’t pretend to be an NHL scout. The rankings of players and odds based on previous drafts show there likely is a #2 center in the draft though. To trade up, the Blues will need a center they want to drop to a team like the Kraken, who don’t have much need for another young center, since I believe they already have 4.

[rbirules]

My dream offseason.

Holloway Thomas Snuggerud
McKenna Matthews Tkachuk
Neighbours Dvorsky Carbonneau
Toropchenko Finley Walker

Broberg Mailloux
Lindstein Parayko
Fowler Jiricek

Hofer
Harenstam

Trade Buch, Kyrou, Binnington, Suter, Stenberg, Det 1, Col 1, and any other prospects/picks worth anything for Tkachuk/Matthews.
Win the lottery, draft McKenna. Re-sign Matthews and Tkachuk long term.
Profit

Now, how to get Ontario teams to agree to that is a problem. But not mine.

A big problem with trading for Matthews and/or Tkachuk is that they have two years left on their contracts, and in the NHL you can't sign an extension until you only have one year remaining. So both of those players are in the tricky spot where they are being acquired as short term pieces with no guarantee that you can keep them long term.

They also both have NMCs and selling them on St. Louis might be tough. I guess the first thing that needs to happen is the Blues win the lottery and thus are guaranteed McKenna (or whomever they like most), this likely pushes Toronto out of the top 5 causing them to lose their 1st round pick this year (to Boston, and their pick next year to Philly, IIRC), so the only way they can do a rebuild is to get assets for Matthews, Nylander, or Knies. Perhaps being assured of a top pick is enough to lure Tkachuk here, and then he can help recruit Matthews (team USA teammate) to join.

It's a fun dream, predicated on three events which probably each have at best a 3% chance of happening, all occurring.

It does highlight a major issue with the team as currently constructed, based on your moves . . . we essentially need an entire 2nd line. No small task.

[Old_Goat]

If I am reading this right the point here, amongst just a few posters, is to focus on C.

How we get there, who we move....remains open for debate but to expend a ton of capital....it should be for a center.

Can't wait for summer to see what the Blues ACTUALLY DO.

My money says it's on center position.

I agree and although I'm not a gambler I like where you are thinking of putting your money.

But I'll also take this opportunity to restate my dislike of calling them the 1C or 2C or 3C. I prefer to say a skilled "Offensive" or "Scoring" Center. Some are better at shooting and scoring goals and some for their better passing assists skills or even a great combination or face-off winning skills. Then you match Wingers with Centers depending on all of their strengths. A winger may be great at digging out pucks and feeding the shooting goal-scoring center in the slot, or as a power net front presence. Or the speedy quick release winger is best with a skilled passing Center. Which line becomes the "Top Line" will become obvious, and which lines to match against opponent's lines will be figured out each game. Get good Centers, then figure out how to deploy them. The very few elite are good at everything and it usually takes tanking or luck to get, but no guarantees to a championship team. Having two and ideally 3 well-above average Centers is within reach...the ever important balance.

The only categorization I prefer to use is for just the Checking or 4th Line Center.

[dhsux]

If I am reading this right the point here, amongst just a few posters, is to focus on C.

How we get there, who we move....remains open for debate but to expend a ton of capital....it should be for a center.

Can't wait for summer to see what the Blues ACTUALLY DO.

My money says it's on center position.

I agree and although I'm not a gambler I like where you are thinking of putting your money.

But I'll also take this opportunity to restate my dislike of calling them the 1C or 2C or 3C. I prefer to say a skilled "Offensive" or "Scoring" Center. Some are better at shooting and scoring goals and some for their better passing assists skills or even a great combination or face-off winning skills. Then you match Wingers with Centers depending on all of their strengths. A winger may be great at digging out pucks and feeding the shooting goal-scoring center in the slot, or as a power net front presence. Or the speedy quick release winger is best with a skilled passing Center. Which line becomes the "Top Line" will become obvious, and which lines to match against opponent's lines will be figured out each game. Get good Centers, then figure out how to deploy them. The very few elite are good at everything and it usually takes tanking or luck to get, but no guarantees to a championship team. Having two and ideally 3 well-above average Centers is within reach...the ever important balance.

The only categorization I prefer to use is for just the Checking or 4th Line Center.

Exactly right.

Thomas went down and the team fell down with him.

You can't, or shouldn't, have that be the case.

[TheJackBurton]

My dream offseason.

Holloway Thomas Snuggerud
McKenna Matthews Tkachuk
Neighbours Dvorsky Carbonneau
Toropchenko Finley Walker

Broberg Mailloux
Lindstein Parayko
Fowler Jiricek

Hofer
Harenstam

Trade Buch, Kyrou, Binnington, Suter, Stenberg, Det 1, Col 1, and any other prospects/picks worth anything for Tkachuk/Matthews.
Win the lottery, draft McKenna. Re-sign Matthews and Tkachuk long term.
Profit

Now, how to get Ontario teams to agree to that is a problem. But not mine.

A big problem with trading for Matthews and/or Tkachuk is that they have two years left on their contracts, and in the NHL you can't sign an extension until you only have one year remaining. So both of those players are in the tricky spot where they are being acquired as short term pieces with no guarantee that you can keep them long term.

They also both have NMCs and selling them on St. Louis might be tough. I guess the first thing that needs to happen is the Blues win the lottery and thus are guaranteed McKenna (or whomever they like most), this likely pushes Toronto out of the top 5 causing them to lose their 1st round pick this year (to Boston, and their pick next year to Philly, IIRC), so the only way they can do a rebuild is to get assets for Matthews, Nylander, or Knies. Perhaps being assured of a top pick is enough to lure Tkachuk here, and then he can help recruit Matthews (team USA teammate) to join.

It's a fun dream, predicated on three events which probably each have at best a 3% chance of happening, all occurring.

It does highlight a major issue with the team as currently constructed, based on your moves . . . we essentially need an entire 2nd line. No small task.

well Ktachuk grew up here, so if there's a team and city in the entire league you wouldn't have to sell him on it's St Louis.

I think Matthews goes back to his near 60 goal ways once he's out of Toronto. I think he's had it being the person that Leafs fans blame for all their issues and failure to advance. If it is the case then maybe being in a low pressure town is exactly what he needs.

[MandatoryDenial]

Picks #10 and #31 are worth about pick #5.

Picks #15 and #31 are worth about pick #7.

Given who is available at #5 and #7, why would you ever do either deal??? Your going to have to pay a lot more then that for either.

[SameOldBlues]

Picks #10 and #31 are worth about pick #5.

Picks #15 and #31 are worth about pick #7.

Given who is available at #5 and #7, why would you ever do either deal??? Your going to have to pay a lot more then that for either.

Exactly. And there’s absolutely no way in hell the 15 and 31 picks get you picks 5 or 7. Completely ludicrous.

[dhsux]

So on 101 today they asked Kerbs if he would trade the #1 pick straight up for Brady.

He said, after hmmmming a bit....no

Though I believe he said he would trade all 3 #1's for him?

101 dude said he would not trade first pick either.

Then I think the guy they call BK said if Blues won both lottery's and got the #1 and #5 pick he would trade both of them for BT.

It's nuts. Anyone else here trade the top pick for Brady? I'm suspecting plenty would?

I don't get it. Praying cool heads prevail on this.

[skilles]

My dream offseason.

Holloway Thomas Snuggerud
McKenna Matthews Tkachuk
Neighbours Dvorsky Carbonneau
Toropchenko Finley Walker

Broberg Mailloux
Lindstein Parayko
Fowler Jiricek

Hofer
Harenstam

Trade Buch, Kyrou, Binnington, Suter, Stenberg, Det 1, Col 1, and any other prospects/picks worth anything for Tkachuk/Matthews.
Win the lottery, draft McKenna. Re-sign Matthews and Tkachuk long term.
Profit

Now, how to get Ontario teams to agree to that is a problem. But not mine.

A big problem with trading for Matthews and/or Tkachuk is that they have two years left on their contracts, and in the NHL you can't sign an extension until you only have one year remaining. So both of those players are in the tricky spot where they are being acquired as short term pieces with no guarantee that you can keep them long term.

They also both have NMCs and selling them on St. Louis might be tough. I guess the first thing that needs to happen is the Blues win the lottery and thus are guaranteed McKenna (or whomever they like most), this likely pushes Toronto out of the top 5 causing them to lose their 1st round pick this year (to Boston, and their pick next year to Philly, IIRC), so the only way they can do a rebuild is to get assets for Matthews, Nylander, or Knies. Perhaps being assured of a top pick is enough to lure Tkachuk here, and then he can help recruit Matthews (team USA teammate) to join.

It's a fun dream, predicated on three events which probably each have at best a 3% chance of happening, all occurring.

It does highlight a major issue with the team as currently constructed, based on your moves . . . we essentially need an entire 2nd line. No small task.

I don't think we are that far out of a 2nd line, we have 2nd line players IMO and just need to adjust and make it click. Buch, Kyrou, JN, and now maybe Dvo. Probably just need one player to make it click if it the right player and Dvo could be that player. I think we are one player away from a 2nd line not a whole line away.

[SameOldBlues]

Im on the “no” side. Its not our time yet. Unless you are getting hischier i just think its rushed.

My options
1- make all 3 picks. The way the boues have drafted in the mid to later part of the 1st, we could draft our guys, see how they look after a year and then choose who to move.

2- make 2 picks and use the later 1st and other assets to move up. Having a smorgasbord of prospects is never a bad idea.

I could be wrong but next offseason seems like the time to put our chips in. We will have more team questions answered too

And BINGO was his name-0.

It’s not surprising the crowd that hates draft picks and who have zero patience wants to trade them all for players past their prime, always injured, overpaid etc.

The Blues would be best to continue to build the prospect pool up, they’ve done way better than in previous years in building it up, but they’re still lacking star potential players, centers, RHD, and beyond Carbonneau, what other prospects even have the potential to score 20? Devo’s no longer a prospect…Kaskimäki? Very nice potential 2 way player who hustles, but if he averages 15 a year that’d be great. Pekarcik? Similar, could be a great 3rd liner. Stancl? Great size and motor, could possibly be a great 4th liner if he improves his skating. Jecho? Again…a little potential but more 4th line fodder, which all teams need and Im not trying to to disparage any of these guys, I love em and want as many to succeed with us as possible and use the others for trades etc., but point being…there’s still a large need for talented prospects and especially higher ended kids. The farm looks a hell of alot better today than it has in over a decade, but there’s still more work to do to grow it even more as the Blues use the draft, trades, offer sheets, and FA to build a contender again. Altho I wouldn’t go near free agency since 99% of players signed are out of the new core’s age range, and almost always overpaid.

Like my buddy Baretta used to say to say…

Don't go to bed with no price on your head, no, no (Don't do it), no, no
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time (Don't do it) (Hurry up)
Keep your eye on the sparrow when the going gets narrow
(Don't do it) Don't do it
Don't roll the dice if you can't pay the price, no, no (Don't do it), don't do it
Don't run your feet down no dead end street, no, no (Don't do it) (Hurry up)
Just keep your eye on the sparrow when the going gets narrow
(Don't do it) Don't do it
Don't do me dirt or you're gonna get hurt (Don't do it)
Don't run away 'till you hear what I say, no, no (Don't do it) (Hurry up)
Keep your eye on the sparrow when the going gets narrow
(Don't do it) Don't do It

I have no idea wtf that has anything to do with what I said, but I had that (bleep) show on in the background and had to look up the hilariously weeeetawded lyrics and slap em in here for absolutely no reason. You’re welcome.

[rbirules]

My dream offseason.

Holloway Thomas Snuggerud
McKenna Matthews Tkachuk
Neighbours Dvorsky Carbonneau
Toropchenko Finley Walker

Broberg Mailloux
Lindstein Parayko
Fowler Jiricek

Hofer
Harenstam

Trade Buch, Kyrou, Binnington, Suter, Stenberg, Det 1, Col 1, and any other prospects/picks worth anything for Tkachuk/Matthews.
Win the lottery, draft McKenna. Re-sign Matthews and Tkachuk long term.
Profit

Now, how to get Ontario teams to agree to that is a problem. But not mine.

A big problem with trading for Matthews and/or Tkachuk is that they have two years left on their contracts, and in the NHL you can't sign an extension until you only have one year remaining. So both of those players are in the tricky spot where they are being acquired as short term pieces with no guarantee that you can keep them long term.

They also both have NMCs and selling them on St. Louis might be tough. I guess the first thing that needs to happen is the Blues win the lottery and thus are guaranteed McKenna (or whomever they like most), this likely pushes Toronto out of the top 5 causing them to lose their 1st round pick this year (to Boston, and their pick next year to Philly, IIRC), so the only way they can do a rebuild is to get assets for Matthews, Nylander, or Knies. Perhaps being assured of a top pick is enough to lure Tkachuk here, and then he can help recruit Matthews (team USA teammate) to join.

It's a fun dream, predicated on three events which probably each have at best a 3% chance of happening, all occurring.

It does highlight a major issue with the team as currently constructed, based on your moves . . . we essentially need an entire 2nd line. No small task.

I don't think we are that far out of a 2nd line, we have 2nd line players IMO and just need to adjust and make it click. Buch, Kyrou, JN, and now maybe Dvo. Probably just need one player to make it click if it the right player and Dvo could be that player. I think we are one player away from a 2nd line not a whole line away.

Yeah, I think it's in the middle of those two (we need an entire second line, and we're a player away). The post I responded to essentially added another first line (Brady, Matthews, and McKenna) while only moving Kyrou.

I think Kyrou is a second line player, maybe our only second line player right now. Buch might be, but I don't think he's a second line center, neither is Dvo (unless he takes a massive leap forward next year). I think Neighbours is a 3rd line player that can play up when needed. I don't see Buch going anywhere, but if Kyrou leaves in a trade then I think we need pretty much an entirely new 2nd line, IF we're hoping to compete beyond just making the playoffs next year. I think a 2C (better than Dvo) would go a long way to solidifying our 2nd line along with Kyrou and Buch/Jake.

Or if putting Buch with Thomas and Snuggerud didn't kill that line then you could put Holloway, who can actually skate with Kyrou, on the second line with a new 2C, but I'm not sure we're going to ever see a version of Buch that's good enough to be on the top line again.

[rbirules]

So on 101 today they asked Kerbs if he would trade the #1 pick straight up for Brady.

He said, after hmmmming a bit....no

Though I believe he said he would trade all 3 #1's for him?

101 dude said he would not trade first pick either.

Then I think the guy they call BK said if Blues won both lottery's and got the #1 and #5 pick he would trade both of them for BT.

It's nuts. Anyone else here trade the top pick for Brady? I'm suspecting plenty would?

I don't get it. Praying cool heads prevail on this.

Goodness gracious who are these "experts" or "talking heads"? There's no way you trade the #1 overall pick, if you win the lottery for BT, and certainly not #1 and #5 if you win both. You take two players that can play for the team next season or, at the latest, the season after that.

If we don't win the lottery with either pick, we're just far enough down that I'd consider moving one of those picks for a player, but not BT. He's just not what we need at the moment and the fact that his contract is the worst possible situation makes it impossible to really move futures for him. If he had one less year and could sign an extension that would be one thing, or if he still had 3-4 years left on his deal so that you knew he'd be around when our young players are ready to go, but he's not. I'd put #11 or #15 on the table for a player like Knies, or Hischier if he doesn't want to sign with NJ (I fully expect him to re-sign there), or a player like an Adam Fox who suddenly decides he doesn't want to be a NY Ranger, and only a NY Ranger. A player like Larkin makes it tougher, he's signed long term, but he's already 29 and will be 30 when next season starts.

[dhsux]

So on 101 today they asked Kerbs if he would trade the #1 pick straight up for Brady.

He said, after hmmmming a bit....no

Though I believe he said he would trade all 3 #1's for him?

101 dude said he would not trade first pick either.

Then I think the guy they call BK said if Blues won both lottery's and got the #1 and #5 pick he would trade both of them for BT.

It's nuts. Anyone else here trade the top pick for Brady? I'm suspecting plenty would?

I don't get it. Praying cool heads prevail on this.

Goodness gracious who are these "experts" or "talking heads"? There's no way you trade the #1 overall pick, if you win the lottery for BT, and certainly not #1 and #5 if you win both. You take two players that can play for the team next season or, at the latest, the season after that.

If we don't win the lottery with either pick, we're just far enough down that I'd consider moving one of those picks for a player, but not BT. He's just not what we need at the moment and the fact that his contract is the worst possible situation makes it impossible to really move futures for him. If he had one less year and could sign an extension that would be one thing, or if he still had 3-4 years left on his deal so that you knew he'd be around when our young players are ready to go, but he's not. I'd put #11 or #15 on the table for a player like Knies, or Hischier if he doesn't want to sign with NJ (I fully expect him to re-sign there), or a player like an Adam Fox who suddenly decides he doesn't want to be a NY Ranger, and only a NY Ranger. A player like Larkin makes it tougher, he's signed long term, but he's already 29 and will be 30 when next season starts.

Even the question annoyed me. I think there is a huge disparity amongst fans and viewers....many knowledgeable ....on just what BT's value is.

I do wonder if the Blues will be considering to try to move CP again? It would set the D back but he could be a player to bring in a young top 6 something that could be very meaningful now and in the years ahead.