31 RBI in 14 games

[sikeston bulldog2]

Walker, Gorman, and Burleson have combined for 31 RBI in just 14 games.
Impressive.
It is possible that we are witnessing the emergence of a 3/4/5 middle of the order combination the likes of which the team has not had in the past 10 - 20 years.
Very good things are happening as a result of the organization abandoning its toxic practice of "playing the contract" and instead focusing on allowing talent to play.

Maybe 10 mel, but 20 years?

They'll never even come close to Pujols-Edmonds-Rolen

or

Pujols-Holliday-Berkman

Of course they will never come close to the MV3.
Which is why I said "last 10-20 years".
The MV3 era ended exactly 20 years ago.
And neither you nor I will ever see something like that again with the Cardinals.

But. Let’s change the narrative. Does it take an MV3 for us to again regain prominence in today’s market.

Nope.

Would you say we are a league level ace, and a league leading bat away, with this group.

[Melville]

Walker, Gorman, and Burleson have combined for 31 RBI in just 14 games.
Impressive.
It is possible that we are witnessing the emergence of a 3/4/5 middle of the order combination the likes of which the team has not had in the past 10 - 20 years.
Very good things are happening as a result of the organization abandoning its toxic practice of "playing the contract" and instead focusing on allowing talent to play.

Maybe 10 mel, but 20 years?

They'll never even come close to Pujols-Edmonds-Rolen

or

Pujols-Holliday-Berkman

Of course they will never come close to the MV3.
Which is why I said "last 10-20 years".
The MV3 era ended exactly 20 years ago.
And neither you nor I will ever see something like that again with the Cardinals.

But. Let’s change the narrative. Does it take an MV3 for us to again regain prominence in today’s market.

Nope.

Would you say we are a league level ace, and a league leading bat away, with this group.

The team improved simply by removing dead weight and allowing younger, better guys to play - exactly as I predicted would be the case.
That said, Bloom has filed to address some areas of need - and you correctly listed 2 of them.
The Cardinals still need a top of rotation starter and another high-quality RH bat.
And they need a new manager.
I suspect Bloom will add the 2 players needed.
But as long as DeWitt is the owner, his affection for his pet Marmot will continue to be an issue.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Walker, Gorman, and Burleson have combined for 31 RBI in just 14 games.
Impressive.
It is possible that we are witnessing the emergence of a 3/4/5 middle of the order combination the likes of which the team has not had in the past 10 - 20 years.
Very good things are happening as a result of the organization abandoning its toxic practice of "playing the contract" and instead focusing on allowing talent to play.

Maybe 10 mel, but 20 years?

They'll never even come close to Pujols-Edmonds-Rolen

or

Pujols-Holliday-Berkman

Of course they will never come close to the MV3.
Which is why I said "last 10-20 years".
The MV3 era ended exactly 20 years ago.
And neither you nor I will ever see something like that again with the Cardinals.

But. Let’s change the narrative. Does it take an MV3 for us to again regain prominence in today’s market.

Nope.

Would you say we are a league level ace, and a league leading bat away, with this group.

The team improved simply by removing dead weight and allowing younger, better guys to play - exactly as I predicted would be the case.
That said, Bloom has filed to address some areas of need - and you correctly listed 2 of them.
The Cardinals still need a top of rotation starter and another high-quality RH bat.
And they need a new manager.
I suspect Bloom will add the 2 players needed.
But as long as DeWitt is the owner, his affection for his pet Marmot will continue to be an issue.

I’m past Marmol. Nothing I can do.

After they shake out a core of five ish players, i expect a spend. However, the looming CBA skews these arguments greatly.

[ramfandan]

A middle of the order bat gets one RBI credited to himself when he hits a HR.

All the other RBI production only happens when guys ahead of him are on base to drive them in.
Wetherholt and Herreras are main reasons whey 3-4-5 spots are getting RBI. I can hit .300 as a 3rd batter but have poor RBI producation if the guys ahead of me did not get on base
For a Wetherholt to get many RBI are quite tough. His first at bat every game has nobody on base to drive in.
The rest of the game he is dependent heavily on the 7th, 8th, 9th (your lowest battng avg. guys ) to get on base to have a shot for a JJ RBI>
Now JJ is in a great spot for Runs scored as all his walks and hits get him on base for the guys after him to get him home plus they are the better bats on the team in 2, 3, and 4 spots on team.

So bad RBI spot leading off but great to score runs .

[rockondlouie]

Walker, Gorman, and Burleson have combined for 31 RBI in just 14 games.
Impressive.
It is possible that we are witnessing the emergence of a 3/4/5 middle of the order combination the likes of which the team has not had in the past 10 - 20 years.
Very good things are happening as a result of the organization abandoning its toxic practice of "playing the contract" and instead focusing on allowing talent to play.

Maybe 10 mel, but 20 years?

They'll never even come close to Pujols-Edmonds-Rolen

or

Pujols-Holliday-Berkman

Of course they will never come close to the MV3.
Which is why I said "last 10-20 years".
The MV3 era ended exactly 20 years ago.
And neither you nor I will ever see something like that again with the Cardinals.

Won't ever come close to Pujols-Holliday-Berkman either

[Melville]

Walker, Gorman, and Burleson have combined for 31 RBI in just 14 games.
Impressive.
It is possible that we are witnessing the emergence of a 3/4/5 middle of the order combination the likes of which the team has not had in the past 10 - 20 years.
Very good things are happening as a result of the organization abandoning its toxic practice of "playing the contract" and instead focusing on allowing talent to play.

Maybe 10 mel, but 20 years?

They'll never even come close to Pujols-Edmonds-Rolen

or

Pujols-Holliday-Berkman

Of course they will never come close to the MV3.
Which is why I said "last 10-20 years".
The MV3 era ended exactly 20 years ago.
And neither you nor I will ever see something like that again with the Cardinals.

Won't ever come close to Pujols-Holliday-Berkman either

Berkman was a middle third hitter in STL for exactly one year (94 RBI) - and drove in 107 runs across 2 total seasons.
In Berkman's a productive season with STL (2011), Holliday drove in 75 runs.
Pujols had 99.
Total of 268 RBI in the only season they were together in STL as middle order run producers.
Fact is, Walker/Gorman/Burleson are far ahead of that pace currently.
And, of course, can be together for the next few years if STL co chooses.
So yes, my original observation was perfectly analyzed and fully correct.
The current group should be better than anything the team has seen for at least 10 seasons - and possibly the past 20.

[cardstatman]

Wetherholt 359 OBA and Herrera 369 OBA batting first and second helps a lot.

Offense flourishes when batters don't make outs.

The same as saying offenses click with runners on base.

It is not just a saying. It is true every season.

This year the league averages are ...
.228 .311 .369 .680 with no one on base.
.252 .334 .402 .736 with men on base.

It is important for a leadoff hitter to get on base somehow to give the later hitters that inherent advantage (making them all better hitters). Note that the first batter always bats with no one on base so they have to start the positive momentum without the advantage of having someone on base already. The Card's first batter of an inning is hitting .295 .395 .459 .854 this year which is 2nd best in MLB (behind Houston). I'm of the opinion that this is more random SSS than skill but I sure hope they can keep it up. They hit .236 .316 .388 .704 with no one on base overall.

On the flip side, it is important for the pitchers to get the first batter out. The Cardinal's opponent's first batter of an inning is hitting .288 .341 .431 .772 against the Cardinals. That's not great but not far out of line from the opponents hitting .251 .330 .411 .741 against the Cardinals overall with no one on base.

Having a runner on 3rd base has historically been a huge advantage for the hitter. The infield is often in.

2025 full season league averages.
.276 .360 .458 .818 -23 (men on 2nd and 3rd)
.285 .314 .457 .771 123 (bases loaded)
.277 .320 .444 .764 1-3 (men on 1st and 3rd)
.264 .346 .406 .751 --3 (man on 3rd)
.255 .320 .414 .734 1--
.238 .343 .385 .728 -2-
.247 .317 .407 .724 12-
.238 .306 .397 .703 --- (nobody on)

[2ninr]

Walker, Gorman, Burleson now have 42 RBI in just 19 games.
On pace to have the 3/4/5 hitters drive in over 300 runs this season.

I thought we were supposed to bench Gorman and teach him a lesson!

Were some folks advocating that?

Yes after they dropped the poput last week and he didn't make second.

[ramfandan]

Tough to compare 3 consecutive batters today to 3 guys from 20 years ago. Sure one can look at RBI total , HR, etc.
but the varying factor is the opposition pitching of each group.
Did any trio face tougher aces, No. 2 guys etc 20 years than today. Were the 4th & 5th starters 20 years ago tougher than the 4th & 5th today ?
Just offensive numbers to offensive numbers don't necessarily answer which trio was better.

Plus , the baseballs are different today too than the guys hit 20 years ago .
Easier ? I Googled it

Yes, MLB baseballs have generally been easier to hit for distance over the past decade compared to 20 years ago, driven by lower drag and a "bouncier" composition that causes balls to fly farther. While 2025 data shows some increased drag, the overall trend since the mid-2010s has been toward increased exit velocity (104.7 mph average home run speed in 2025) and higher home run rates.

Studies done showed this :

Evidence from 2017–2024 suggests balls had lower air resistance, allowing them to travel an estimated 5 feet farther on well-hit fly balls.

So all of us should be aware to start comparing different decades is folly. The game has changed the rules, size of bases, construction of the baseball, outfield fences shorter in many cases ( more stadiums pulling them IN rather than keeping longer distance to wall ) . Just a lot of things.

[dugoutrex]

Walker, Gorman, and Burleson have combined for 31 RBI in just 14 games.
Impressive.
It is possible that we are witnessing the emergence of a 3/4/5 middle of the order combination the likes of which the team has not had in the past 10 - 20 years.
Very good things are happening as a result of the organization abandoning its toxic practice of "playing the contract" and instead focusing on allowing talent to play.

Maybe 10 mel, but 20 years?

They'll never even come close to Pujols-Edmonds-Rolen

or

Pujols-Holliday-Berkman

Of course they will never come close to the MV3.
Which is why I said "last 10-20 years".
The MV3 era ended exactly 20 years ago.
And neither you nor I will ever see something like that again with the Cardinals.

But. Let’s change the narrative. Does it take an MV3 for us to again regain prominence in today’s market.

Nope.

Would you say we are a league level ace, and a league leading bat away, with this group.

The team improved simply by removing dead weight and allowing younger, better guys to play - exactly as I predicted would be the case.
That said, Bloom has filed to address some areas of need - and you correctly listed 2 of them.
The Cardinals still need a top of rotation starter and another high-quality RH bat.
And they need a new manager.
I suspect Bloom will add the 2 players needed.
But as long as DeWitt is the owner, his affection for his pet Marmot will continue to be an issue.

and a 3rd baseman

[Melville]

Walker, Gorman, Burleson now have 42 RBI in just 19 games.
On pace to have the 3/4/5 hitters drive in over 300 runs this season.

I thought we were supposed to bench Gorman and teach him a lesson!

Were some folks advocating that?

Yes after they dropped the poput last week and he didn't make second.

Missed that.
I have been traveling for 14 of the last 20 days, which resulted in missing several games.
Have no information of the play you are referencing.
So, what was the context of not reaching 2nd base?
Not paying attention, not running, or a catch that would have been made 99% of the time?

[Melville]

Tough to compare 3 consecutive batters today to 3 guys from 20 years ago. Sure one can look at RBI total , HR, etc.
but the varying factor is the opposition pitching of each group.
Did any trio face tougher aces, No. 2 guys etc 20 years than today. Were the 4th & 5th starters 20 years ago tougher than the 4th & 5th today ?
Just offensive numbers to offensive numbers don't necessarily answer which trio was better.

But they do show which is the most productive.
Right now, the production of Burleson, Walker, and Gorman is on a pace superior to anything the team has seen in the last 20 years.
That is the reality.
And it is encouraging.

[ramfandan]

Walker, Gorman, Burleson now have 42 RBI in just 19 games.
On pace to have the 3/4/5 hitters drive in over 300 runs this season.

I thought we were supposed to bench Gorman and teach him a lesson!

Were some folks advocating that?

Yes after they dropped the poput last week and he didn't make second.

Missed that.
I have been traveling for 14 of the last 20 days, which resulted in missing several games.
Have no information of the play you are referencing.
So, what was the context of not reaching 2nd base?
Not paying attention, not running, or a catch that would have been made 99% of the time?

Combination of all three .. Ball was popped high to short left field with 3rd baseman going out and LF coming in. The cameras were not on Gorman 'leaving the box ' but after the very high ball was misjudged by the 3rd baseman reaching back for it, the ball dropped and the cameras went to gorman standing on 1st . I was shocked thinking how could he not be on 2nd.
Then telecsat had a disappointed Chip say Gorman never ran out of the box on that .. Even Brad who rarely if ever will say anything critical chimed in with his disappointment . When Brad criticizes , you know it was REALLY BAD !

PS Gorman was pinched run for by Urias . Was it strictly for speed OR was Oli (upset) at what he saw and every Cardinal player at their railing.
Good thing was that it didn't end up costing the team a run if the next batter had hit a single or double.

[2ninr]

Walker, Gorman, Burleson now have 42 RBI in just 19 games.
On pace to have the 3/4/5 hitters drive in over 300 runs this season.

I thought we were supposed to bench Gorman and teach him a lesson!

Were some folks advocating that?

Yes after they dropped the poput last week and he didn't make second.

Missed that.
I have been traveling for 14 of the last 20 days, which resulted in missing several games.
Have no information of the play you are referencing.
So, what was the context of not reaching 2nd base?
Not paying attention, not running, or a catch that would have been made 99% of the time?

Not running on a play he thought would be an out. It didn't look good, Im sure he was the one most embarrassed by it.

[Melville]

Walker, Gorman, Burleson now have 42 RBI in just 19 games.
On pace to have the 3/4/5 hitters drive in over 300 runs this season.

I thought we were supposed to bench Gorman and teach him a lesson!

Were some folks advocating that?

Yes after they dropped the poput last week and he didn't make second.

Missed that.
I have been traveling for 14 of the last 20 days, which resulted in missing several games.
Have no information of the play you are referencing.
So, what was the context of not reaching 2nd base?
Not paying attention, not running, or a catch that would have been made 99% of the time?

Combination of all three .. Ball was popped high to short left field with 3rd baseman going out and LF coming in. The cameras were not on Gorman 'leaving the box ' but after the very high ball was misjudged by the 3rd baseman reaching back for it, the ball dropped and the cameras went to gorman standing on 1st . I was shocked thinking how could he not be on 2nd.
Then telecsat had a disappointed Chip say Gorman never ran out of the box on that .. Even Brad who rarely if ever will say anything critical chimed in with his disappointment . When Brad criticizes , you know it was REALLY BAD !

PS Gorman was pinched run for by Urias . Was it strictly for speed OR was Oli (upset) at what he saw and every Cardinal player at their railing.
Good thing was that it didn't end up costing the team a run if the next batter had hit a single or double.

Didn't see the play so I am in no position to offer an opinion.
However, there is certainly nothing new or unusual about a Cardinal hitter not running hard.
That has been a very common occurrence as long as The Marmot has been the manager.
Winn and Mootbaar both come immediately to mind as specific players who have done that many, many times.

[rockondlouie]

Walker, Gorman, and Burleson have combined for 31 RBI in just 14 games.
Impressive.
It is possible that we are witnessing the emergence of a 3/4/5 middle of the order combination the likes of which the team has not had in the past 10 - 20 years.
Very good things are happening as a result of the organization abandoning its toxic practice of "playing the contract" and instead focusing on allowing talent to play.

Maybe 10 mel, but 20 years?

They'll never even come close to Pujols-Edmonds-Rolen

or

Pujols-Holliday-Berkman

Of course they will never come close to the MV3.
Which is why I said "last 10-20 years".
The MV3 era ended exactly 20 years ago.
And neither you nor I will ever see something like that again with the Cardinals.

Won't ever come close to Pujols-Holliday-Berkman either

Berkman was a middle third hitter in STL for exactly one year (94 RBI) - and drove in 107 runs across 2 total seasons.
In Berkman's a productive season with STL (2011), Holliday drove in 75 runs.
Pujols had 99.
Total of 268 RBI in the only season they were together in STL as middle order run producers.
Fact is, Walker/Gorman/Burleson are far ahead of that pace currently.
And, of course, can be together for the next few years if STL co chooses.
So yes, my original observation was perfectly analyzed and fully correct.
The current group should be better than anything the team has seen for at least 10 seasons - and possibly the past 20.

IF Walker, Gorman or Burleson even one of them drives in 94 runs, then we can revisit.

Not quite "...perfectly analyzed and fully correct" until that happens, if it ever does.

I have two more that's better than your group:

2021 Cardinals:

Goldy-NADO-O'Neil---99 Home Runs + 284 RBI's
NL MVP
2nd runner-up NL MVP

2022 Cardinals:

Goldy-NADO-Pujols--89 Home Runs + 286 RBI's


"...better than anything the team has seen for at least 10 seasons"........" ...and possibly the past 20"?

Nope, sorry mel

2011: Pujols-Holliday-Berkman
AND
2021: Goldy-NADO-O'Neil
AND
2022: Goldy-NADO-Pujols

were way better than the current three of Walker-Gorman-Burleson

"..perfectly analyzed and fully correct"

No

(And I know that 2021 w/the Paper Tyler has to really annoy you )