How long do they go with Church?

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

He seems solid defensively his bat is a 0 at this point. Since he is young w/ options could they rotate him out in 30/60/90?

And if so who/whom.

Thankfully, my employer doesn’t grade me on one week of work. Extrapolation of one week of data to an entire season is extremely risky.

News flash...

Your employer can lay you off anytime, anyplace.

Thank you Captain flat brim for stating the obvious. You clearly are content multiplying one week’s worth of data by 25 to predict a player’s season. I cannot argue with you. We use different analysis methods. Go Cards!

He played last year ~30 games 70 PAs and was just as feeble. It’s not just one week of baseball….

Just started watching this season?

[hornetfb52]

he has had 5 games, let's release him.

somewhere, someone said this about Luken Baker and Taylor Motter, and how'd that work out?

He has 78 career ABs with a .465 OPS. How Long is a legit question.

Untrue, I wanted to release Motter the day they signed him

[Cardinals1964]

Till moot returns. Thats the plan

+1 church may not be able to hit but he will supply great defense in left until noot returns

You can’t waste another offensive position on a defensive specialist.
Noot won’t be back until June. If Church doesn’t hit, you’ll see Valesquez out there. It’s awful early for people to judge him though.

[Cardinals1964]

he has had 5 games, let's release him.

somewhere, someone said this about Luken Baker and Taylor Motter, and how'd that work out?

He has 78 career ABs with a .465 OPS. How Long is a legit question.

Untrue, I wanted to release Motter the day they signed him

Nobody in the league wanted Motter and we kept calling him up. It was so annoying

[Cardinals1964]

How about more than a week

Its been more. He was here last year for a month+ with the same results. .436 career OPS.

72 ABs. The requirement for instant success is hard to understand for those who know anything about baseball. Baseball is hard. Giving up on someone who had .900+ OPS last season in the minors and is the best defensive OFer in the org is wild, especially in a season that everyone admits is not going to be a playoff team.

I won’t deny that he was great against minor league pitching. But he seems overwhelmed right now.

[woofy25]

How about more than a week

Its been more. He was here last year for a month+ with the same results. .436 career OPS.

72 ABs. The requirement for instant success is hard to understand for those who know anything about baseball. Baseball is hard. Giving up on someone who had .900+ OPS last season in the minors and is the best defensive OFer in the org is wild, especially in a season that everyone admits is not going to be a playoff team.

The question is how long?

In your opinion, how many ABs should Luken baker have gotten? He won the AAA slugger award.

Taylor Motter?

IDK, but they have moved how many position players without giving them enough ABs over the past 7-8 years? Putting a blanket number on every person doesn’t seem wise.

Luken Baker was a valuable piece against LHP, but he wasn’t good defensively and they didn’t give up on him till he was like 29. Church brings value defensively and is 25

Taylor Motter was 33 by the time he got to the organization.

Those examples aren’t helping your point.

Have we? Yes, Randy Arozarena got only 20 ABs before we traded him. (with a .891 OPS). Admittedly we got some value in return but could have sold higher if we'd kept him. But Church is well past 20 in his career. He's halfway to Baker's 160.

Baker got way too many chances and was never "valuable". And we DFAd/traded him long after he had lost whatever prospect value he ever did have.
If we keep exposing Church where he is clearly in a funk at best, he will likely lose any trade value and confidence he has from his past MILB performance. Why Bloom didn't bring in a RH OF (as he said was his goal) so Church could at least develop more in the minors or play part time in lower pressure situations before being forced in to every day starting is a mystery to me.

What we really have is a track record of giving up on the good ones too early, and giving the JAGs way too many unearned opportunities and refusing to upgrade their positions from the outside because we need to eteranally see what we've got, even with no indications of change. Make them earn the PT.

We’re coming at this from completely different angles. I don’t know why 160 ABs could ever be considered “way too many” chances. You, apparently, need guys to be good from day one. That’s a poor way to evaluate the probability of success over a career. Not everyone comes out of the gate an all-star

Coming to conclusions on a guy after 72 ABs is wild to me. He does not need to back to the minors. He’s 25 and will be 26 in July. It’s his turn to sink or swim. This is a rebuild and a perfect opportunity for a guy like Church. It’s literally April 2. I don’t think we need to be making calls yet on him or anyone. Plus, he is an excellent defender, so he does have at least some value. I mean, how many starts will you give Quinn Mathews when he gets called up, 3?

As far as acquiring a right handed bat. That never made sense to me. They were never going to get a needle mover. The guy would have been about a league average hitter for what the cardinals would have been willing to give up. Plus, they do need to see whether or not other guys in the organization can hack in the big leagues. This is the real runway season. Getting a guy who hits .250 with 15HRs provides no real value to the team in ‘26.

[woofy25]

How about more than a week

Its been more. He was here last year for a month+ with the same results. .436 career OPS.

72 ABs. The requirement for instant success is hard to understand for those who know anything about baseball. Baseball is hard. Giving up on someone who had .900+ OPS last season in the minors and is the best defensive OFer in the org is wild, especially in a season that everyone admits is not going to be a playoff team.

I won’t deny that he was great against minor league pitching. But he seems overwhelmed right now.

So, is that an indictment on his entire future? Maybe he’s a AAAA player. There are a bunch of those guys, but it’s too early to make that assessment about Church.

Do you remember when Burleson first got called up? He literally looked like a pitcher in the batters box.

[BrockFloodMaris]

He seems solid defensively his bat is a 0 at this point. Since he is young w/ options could they rotate him out in 30/60/90?

And if so who/whom.

Thankfully, my employer doesn’t grade me on one week of work. Extrapolation of one week of data to an entire season is extremely risky.

News flash...

Your employer can lay you off anytime, anyplace.

Thank you Captain flat brim for stating the obvious. You clearly are content multiplying one week’s worth of data by 25 to predict a player’s season. I cannot argue with you. We use different analysis methods. Go Cards!

He played last year ~30 games 70 PAs and was just as feeble. It’s not just one week of baseball….

Just started watching this season?

Much has been written and spoken about how the Cards 2026 priorities will not be the MLB roster or the MLB W/L record. So, Nathan Church getting a couple hundred at bats while Noot heals his heels does not surprise me. Church plays a plus defense, and we get to see if his bat is just another AAAA guy’s bat. You are likely right about him not being a legitimate MLB hitter, but there won’t be a rush to demote him.

[ClassicO]

I’ll say it again:
Church is a better all-around player than VSII.
So the question should be:
How long they should they go with Scott?

[ecleme22]

I’ll say it again:
Church is a better all-around player than VSII.
So the question should be:
How long they should they go with Scott?

Um… watching any games this year yet?

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

He seems solid defensively his bat is a 0 at this point. Since he is young w/ options could they rotate him out in 30/60/90?

And if so who/whom.

Thankfully, my employer doesn’t grade me on one week of work. Extrapolation of one week of data to an entire season is extremely risky.

News flash...

Your employer can lay you off anytime, anyplace.

Thank you Captain flat brim for stating the obvious. You clearly are content multiplying one week’s worth of data by 25 to predict a player’s season. I cannot argue with you. We use different analysis methods. Go Cards!

He played last year ~30 games 70 PAs and was just as feeble. It’s not just one week of baseball….

Just started watching this season?

Much has been written and spoken about how the Cards 2026 priorities will not be the MLB roster or the MLB W/L record. So, Nathan Church getting a couple hundred at bats while Noot heals his heels does not surprise me. Church plays a plus defense, and we get to see if his bat is just another AAAA guy’s bat. You are likely right about him not being a legitimate MLB hitter, but there won’t be a rush to demote him.

Just to be clear I am 100% on board with his defense. He seems to take some odd angles at times but overall he’s good from my untrained eye. At the plate completely different story.

Can’t wait to get Noot back this offense IMHO needs him badly. W/L probably not a priority makes sense this season at least not entirely.

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

I’ll say it again:
Church is a better all-around player than VSII.
So the question should be:
How long they should they go with Scott?

Um… watching any games this year yet?

Based on this season I don’t get how he thinks Church is better.

[renostl]

I’ll say it again:
Church is a better all-around player than VSII.
So the question should be:
How long they should they go with Scott?

I think that they are seeing in real time
if your assessment is true or if either is a starter
vs being a defensive replacement.
Any could have some roster value with
their other tools.

[ClassicO]

I’ll say it again:
Church is a better all-around player than VSII.
So the question should be:
How long they should they go with Scott?

Um… watching any games this year yet?

Based on this season I don’t get how he thinks Church is better.

I don't base anything on 6 games. That seems foolish.
I watched Church a lot on MiLB-TV the last few years and he's a better hitter than VSII (which isn't saying much).
I've watched the 18 ABs he's had this year, and he's been struggling. He did last year in a limited time as well. Career = 74 ABs.
Still, he has 2 runs and 2 RBI vs. Scott's 3 runs and 0 RBI.

Scott has played in 197 games in MLB with .211/.285/.297/.582. Yes, that .297 slugging % isn't a typo. He's had 560+ more PAs than Church at MLB level and has established the hitter that he is - and will be.

Looking back at their careers before MLB is helpful as well:

Scott
AAA - .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs. Range Factor vs League = 2.72 vs. 2.62
College - .254/.368/.419/.787

Church
AAA - .332/.396/.500/.896 in 213 PAs. Range Factor vs League = 2.70 vs. 2.53
College - .341/.405/.515/.920

[ClassicO]

I’ll say it again:
Church is a better all-around player than VSII.
So the question should be:
How long they should they go with Scott?

I think that they are seeing in real time
if your assessment is true or if either is a starter
vs being a defensive replacement.
Any could have some roster value with
their other tools.

Neither should be a starter. That's why Baez's development this year - as a CF - is pivotal.

[ecleme22]

I’ll say it again:
Church is a better all-around player than VSII.
So the question should be:
How long they should they go with Scott?

Um… watching any games this year yet?

Based on this season I don’t get how he thinks Church is better.

I don't base anything on 6 games. That seems foolish.
I watched Church a lot on MiLB-TV the last few years and he's a better hitter than VSII (which isn't saying much).
I've watched the 18 ABs he's had this year, and he's been struggling. He did last year in a limited time as well. Career = 74 ABs.
Still, he has 2 runs and 2 RBI vs. Scott's 3 runs and 0 RBI.

Scott has played in 197 games in MLB with .211/.285/.297/.582. Yes, that .297 slugging % isn't a typo. He's had 560+ more PAs than Church at MLB level and has established the hitter that he is - and will be.

Looking back at their careers before MLB is helpful as well:

Scott
AAA - .210/.294/.303/.597 in 362 PAs. Range Factor vs League = 2.72 vs. 2.62
College - .254/.368/.419/.787

Church
AAA - .332/.396/.500/.896 in 213 PAs. Range Factor vs League = 2.70 vs. 2.53
College - .341/.405/.515/.920

Only a moron would compare runs and RBIs the way you did.