What Player in Cards History or MLB History Would Struggle Now?

[Melville]

Greg Maddux.
Would be destroyed by the ABS system being introduced this year.

I understand what you are saying, but Maddux was so good and so smart that he would certainly figure out a way to continue to thrive as a pitcher. Pitching off the corners of the plate wasn't his only skill.

True - but he had more balls called strikes than any pitcher in MLB history, and his effectiveness would have been greatly reduced with the ABS system.

[juan good eye]

Players from different past eras would still be good because they would have access to the same things players today have nutritional information weight lifting science all the information on pitchers tendencies they would be accustomed to high velocity. Players today if they played back then wouldn’t have the nutritional information or weight training information or all the information on pitchers tendencies good players would be good in any era.

While I generally agree my guess is more than one of the numerous former greats wouldnt make it as far in today’s game due to lack of access and/or interest in the new training methods that require both more time and money.

[jcgmoi]

You guys ragging on Maddux really think he won 350 games by getting all the missed calls in his favor? You probably believe the umps rely on where the pitch is caught not where it crosses the plate. Too bad they had a better view than you from your couch.

Look. Maddux had extreme command of all his pitches. Everything he threw had great late movement and his motion and release point was the same for all of them. His FB, slider, and change were each spaced 10-12 mph apart. He got plenty of Ks and tons of weak contact because hitters couldn't read what was coming and when they did lock on it was likely to dart or drop out of the way.

[12xu]

Players from different past eras would still be good because they would have access to the same things players today have nutritional information weight lifting science all the information on pitchers tendencies they would be accustomed to high velocity. Players today if they played back then wouldn’t have the nutritional information or weight training information or all the information on pitchers tendencies good players would be good in any era.

If you've been blessed w/superior "hand/eye contact" it doesn't matter if it was in the early 1900's or today, any major league level hitter can square up a fastball even one's in the upper 90's.

The Greats of those days would be the Greats of today too.

The J.A.G.'s may not have made it into today's MLB though.

JMO

all true, and a big difference the pitchers back in the day had - the baseballs were used when dirty and dark, and were often doctored with spit and vaseline. The strike zone was much bigger in the old days. Most pitchers did not have the current velocity, but they had other methods to befuddle the batters.

IMO, the elite pitchers and batters of 100 years ago would still be stars today. 50's/60's stars like Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Williams, and Musial would crush current pitchers just like they did years ago.

[Melville]

You guys ragging on Maddux really think he won 350 games by getting all the missed calls in his favor? You probably believe the umps rely on where the pitch is caught not where it crosses the plate. Too bad they had a better view than you from your couch.

Look. Maddux had extreme command of all his pitches. Everything he threw had great late movement and his motion and release point was the same for all of them. His FB, slider, and change were each spaced 10-12 mph apart. He got plenty of Ks and tons of weak contact because hitters couldn't read what was coming and when they did lock on it was likely to dart or drop out of the way.

Maddux would have been a very good pitcher under the ABS system - but nothing more than that.
But not great, not elite, and nowhere remotely close to being a 300-game winner.
He succeeded to the degree that he did because his strike zone was 4 inches wider than that of other pitchers - which out hitters at a massive disadvantage when making swing decisions and trying to make quality contact.
And even with a huge strike zone, his K rate was an anemic 6.6/9.
ABS would have turned him into just another guy who pitched a lot of years and steadily accumulated numbers.

[rockondlouie]

Players from different past eras would still be good because they would have access to the same things players today have nutritional information weight lifting science all the information on pitchers tendencies they would be accustomed to high velocity. Players today if they played back then wouldn’t have the nutritional information or weight training information or all the information on pitchers tendencies good players would be good in any era.

If you've been blessed w/superior "hand/eye contact" it doesn't matter if it was in the early 1900's or today, any major league level hitter can square up a fastball even one's in the upper 90's.

The Greats of those days would be the Greats of today too.

The J.A.G.'s may not have made it into today's MLB though.

JMO

all true, and a big difference the pitchers back in the day had - the baseballs were used when dirty and dark, and were often doctored with spit and vaseline. The strike zone was much bigger in the old days. Most pitchers did not have the current velocity, but they had other methods to befuddle the batters.

IMO, the elite pitchers and batters of 100 years ago would still be stars today. 50's/60's stars like Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Williams, and Musial would crush current pitchers just like they did years ago.

Bingo

There may not have been many who could blow 95-100 mph fastballs but they sure could doctor balls and throw those dirty one's too.

100% elite hitters of any generation would be elite hitters today.

Talent is Talent when it comes to hitting, catching and throwing a baseball.

[Melville]

Players from different past eras would still be good because they would have access to the same things players today have nutritional information weight lifting science all the information on pitchers tendencies they would be accustomed to high velocity. Players today if they played back then wouldn’t have the nutritional information or weight training information or all the information on pitchers tendencies good players would be good in any era.

If you've been blessed w/superior "hand/eye contact" it doesn't matter if it was in the early 1900's or today, any major league level hitter can square up a fastball even one's in the upper 90's.

The Greats of those days would be the Greats of today too.

The J.A.G.'s may not have made it into today's MLB though.

JMO

all true, and a big difference the pitchers back in the day had - the baseballs were used when dirty and dark, and were often doctored with spit and vaseline. The strike zone was much bigger in the old days. Most pitchers did not have the current velocity, but they had other methods to befuddle the batters.

IMO, the elite pitchers and batters of 100 years ago would still be stars today. 50's/60's stars like Mays, Aaron, Mantle, Williams, and Musial would crush current pitchers just like they did years ago.

Bingo

There may not have been many who could blow 95-100 mph fastballs but they sure could doctor balls and throw those dirty one's too.

100% elite hitters of any generation would be elite hitters today.

Talent is Talent when it comes to hitting, catching and throwing a baseball.

For the most part, I agree with this.

[jcgmoi]

his strike zone was 4 inches wider than that of other pitchers

Such bull[shirt]. Maddux had pinpoint control of four pitches. They all moved and his delivery made them all look like his FB initially. The combo of movement, command, and deception made hitters look foolish for more than 20 years but you want to put his success on the umps.

his K rate was an anemic 6.6/9.

And Bob Gibson's was 7.2 which would have finished 40th or so last year. Things change. In context, Maddux struck out his share and then some. His K% was better than the league's for 10 of 11 years from his mid 20s to mid 30s. That shouldn't really surprise you since you think the umps were giving him strikes all day.

[Pura Vida]

Obviously the game has changed since the dawn of the game. What players were studs in their time but you think would struggle now? Or what players do you think would still be studs now no matter what?

Babe Ruth isn't using that 50 ounce bat now that guys are throwing 15mph harder than he faced

Interesting post. To me, to ask that question, you would need to consider more than athleticism, like the stadiums and condition of the playing fields, all equipment...bats, balls, shoes, etc, the ratio of night and day games, making a living vs. complete financial stability, training techniques/equipment and more. Considering the modern vs the golden era, maybe the players yesteryear were better athletes, not having so many perks.

[Adam2]

Obviously the game has changed since the dawn of the game. What players were studs in their time but you think would struggle now? Or what players do you think would still be studs now no matter what?

Babe Ruth isn't using that 50 ounce bat now that guys are throwing 15mph harder than he faced

Interesting post. To me, to ask that question, you would need to consider more than athleticism, like the stadiums and condition of the playing fields, all equipment...bats, balls, shoes, etc, the ratio of night and day games, making a living vs. complete financial stability, training techniques/equipment and more. Considering the modern vs the golden era, maybe the players yesteryear were better athletes, not having so many perks.

Fair point, i can't disagree with too much you said there. The topic just came to mind as i was watching some highlights from the 40s or 50s. The hitter and pitcher looked like your typical freshmen in high schoolers you see now. Guy looked like he was throwing 75mph and the hitter had a bat the size of a tree trunk. these weren't your stars, i didn't recognize their names and they were probably plumbers in the offseason.

I personally feel the best of the best of any era could match up if they were born in whatever time frame we are discussing. (with access to training, nutrition, etc.)

have a good day

[JaseMan]

I know life doesn't work out this way, but I would love to see Aroldis Chapman face Babe Ruth.

Maybe in the after life or something.

[Strummer Jones]

his strike zone was 4 inches wider than that of other pitchers

Such bull[shirt]. Maddux had pinpoint control of four pitches. They all moved and his delivery made them all look like his FB initially. The combo of movement, command, and deception made hitters look foolish for more than 20 years but you want to put his success on the umps.

his K rate was an anemic 6.6/9.

And Bob Gibson's was 7.2 which would have finished 40th or so last year. Things change. In context, Maddux struck out his share and then some. His K% was better than the league's for 10 of 11 years from his mid 20s to mid 30s. That shouldn't really surprise you since you think the umps were giving him strikes all day.

I think Maddux would still be successful, but you also need to look at how hitting philosophy has changed.

Maddux was a strike-out pitcher in his day. A lot more hitters were like the Arraez mold where they would shorten up and protect the plate more. So, based on that alone, I think Maddux probably has a better K/9 if he pitches today. On the flip side, I think he gets hurt a little bit more by the "grip it and rip it guys"...but he also strikes more of them out, too.

That said, I think Gibby dominates any era at any time. I went down the rabbit hole over the Christmas holiday on him to try and answer this exact question as it relates to Bob. Bob always threw hard, and just watching old video of his slider and how much it moved tells me that it would still cut guys up. Again, I think against the swing for the fences hitters now...Bob also strikes out an insane amount of hitters.

As for guys not being able to throw 200+ innings anymore...their arms are fatigued. Maddux, Gibson, Ryan, all those guys realized that you shouldn't be throwing year 'round. And what they're doing to these kids--literal children--and their throwing programs is pert-near child abuse.

[3dender]

First guy that jumped to mind is Maddux. He'd still be good but he wouldn't be a top 5-10 guy of all time.

And it's not just the ABS, it's the fact that high velo has taken over the league. Hitters don't have the same amount of trouble with low 90s control artists that they did 20 years ago.

[OldRed]

And pitchers like Dizzy Dean and Bob Feller didn't throw fastballs . . . . LOL

[Adam2]

his strike zone was 4 inches wider than that of other pitchers

Such bull[shirt]. Maddux had pinpoint control of four pitches. They all moved and his delivery made them all look like his FB initially. The combo of movement, command, and deception made hitters look foolish for more than 20 years but you want to put his success on the umps.

his K rate was an anemic 6.6/9.

And Bob Gibson's was 7.2 which would have finished 40th or so last year. Things change. In context, Maddux struck out his share and then some. His K% was better than the league's for 10 of 11 years from his mid 20s to mid 30s. That shouldn't really surprise you since you think the umps were giving him strikes all day.

It's actually not [nonsense]. There are interviews where he talks about the first inning he would start throwing the ball on the edge of the zone. second inning he would move it an inch or 2 off the zone. If he got that call he would move it out to 3-4 inches off the plate. by the end of his start he was getting calls, and to be fair he earned them by having that control

[ShakeyWalton]

I think in the era Maddox would have a career very similar to Wainwright. There is zero doubt the Atlanta big three got major help from the home plate umpires for years. I remember that being a big topic around the late 90’s early 2000’s.